"Hey, Macro, mentor and supporter, you know how you and I were such good friends you let me bugger your wife in front of you? Well, I charge you with letting her sleep with me, so now you must die!"

I think it's both hilarious and insane that you think Wal-mart simply re-arranges a local economy. A lot of Mom & Pop stores are niche market but make a lot of their profit off your everyday Joe & Jane buying garbage. That is probably the majority of consumer product in America - garbage. I remember I was really good friends with the owner of a record store in a small town but he made most of his money from larger "indie" rock bands on Atlantic records or some shitty metal band. 98% of everything else was underground punk, pop-punk, grindcore, power-violence, thrash, straight-edge hardcore, emotive hardcore, gravity style, D-beat, black metal etc etc. But, he made most of his profits from garbage. Don't think about anything folks, just work your shitty job and hope your wife doesn't cheat on you. Remember to pay your taxes. BLEH!

The other problem in my eyes is that a lot of middle-class & lower-class people inevitably shop at Wal-mart because of cheaper prices. I remember reading an article about how Wal-mart lost revenue last year but luxury stores (Neiman Marcus, etc) finances skyrocketed. The rich are now uber rich and they burned up the middle-class as well as their jobs so we could get them to new heights of wealth. Wal-mart and a lot of shitty huge corporate stores are VERY much apart of this topic & apart of the problem America faces. As long as there are huge big-box stores stamping out local business and selling product cheaper because they are such a gigantic virus-like company - local economies across the entire country will never get "well". Make these stores into Co-ops and maybe we'll get somewhere, we have to snuff out at least some of these greedy fucks.

It's still stunning to me that people are able to stick up for such a piece of shit company.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

Wal-mart... crazy rant about how it kills your neighbors...
I've never quite understood this argument. Wal-Mart doesn't kill local businesses. It rearranges them and then creates more jobs. Every Wal-Mart that goes up has about 10 restaurants, 2 car dealerships, 1 Gamestop, a couple book stores, and a bunch of other ancillary businesses sprout up literally overnight right next to it once it opens. These places employ - that's right - your neighbors. It has been demonstrably proven over and over again that Wal-Marts increase employment and revenue in the communities they enter. Do they shake up the environment and force local shops to change it up? Of course. But for every guy that curses Wal-Mart because he had to close his Mom & Pop, there are 20 other guys who are cheering Wal-Mart as they take showers in new business money.

>> ^Samaelsmith:

>> ^Yogi:
I'm 27...makes me sad but just as an aside. All her friends that are crying right now and are very sad I feel for them...but if it comes out she died from drinking or drugs THEY could've stood up and stopped this from happening. They didn't so they lost a good friend.

How do you propose they could have stopped her? Having had a friend with an addiction problem, I know you can't just "stand up to them" and simply get them to stop. It doesn't work that way. All the support in the world only helps so much, in the end it comes down to the addict being the only one that can stop it.


This is just me but if I had a friend with an addiction problem I would try to get them to stop and if I failed they would no longer be my friend. Simple as that, I can predict a horrible end to someone who does tons of cocaine. Also if you continue being their friend don't act fucking surprised and post on Twitter making sure EVERYONE sees your words of mourning.

But yeah just don't be friends with an addict and you'll be fine...every relationship is conditional!

>> ^Yogi:

I'm 27...makes me sad but just as an aside. All her friends that are crying right now and are very sad I feel for them...but if it comes out she died from drinking or drugs THEY could've stood up and stopped this from happening. They didn't so they lost a good friend.


How do you propose they could have stopped her? Having had a friend with an addiction problem, I know you can't just "stand up to them" and simply get them to stop. It doesn't work that way. All the support in the world only helps so much, in the end it comes down to the addict being the only one that can stop it.

I'm 27...makes me sad but just as an aside. All her friends that are crying right now and are very sad I feel for them...but if it comes out she died from drinking or drugs THEY could've stood up and stopped this from happening. They didn't so they lost a good friend.

A good friend from high school wrote and directed this movie.

This song is forever entombed into my psyche.

There I was, incapable of action because of a broken spine, lying in the hospital, useless. A good friend loaned me a Walkman and a handful of CDs, this among them.

Enjoy the imparted wisdom without the hospitalization.

I'm confused. You say that your definition of "corruption" is literal "not working that way it's supposed to" but then link me to a definition that matches what I think corruption means -- actual, well, corruption.

We're not going to get far if we can't agree on the meaning of corruption. Heck, we can't even get started.

I just don't agree with any of your base assumptions, honey bunny.

I don't agree with this: "Both the institutions of US government & police don't function in the way that they claim to be designed. i.e. maximizing liberty while minimizing suffering"

And I REALLY don't agree with this: "the literal daily suffering of innocent people for no good reason i.e. dancing in protest." Those activists didn't suffer, they aren't innocent, there was a good reason. They are so thrilled they got thrown to the ground -- they set out to be thrown to the ground. They couldn't be more pleased. They won.

I'm sorry, I just don't even want to answer the two questions you posed. I can't get past the first one. "Who or what do you feel the police are protectors of? (proof?)" Google it. I don't think anything different than anyone who has had a problem and called the police for help.

I'm sorry, Genji, I just don't have the energy for this conversation if that is the question you have to ask me. I know you think that is a serious question, however for me it is proof of too big a divide between us.

I suspect we agree on many things. Citizens United, for example. I'll bet you hate that Supreme Court ruling as much as I do. The war of drugs. I'll bet you think that is a huge waste of money and human lives, just as I do. Legalization of Marijuana? I'm with you, babe.

I am more interested in concrete conversations, rather than your esoteric bent. The divide is too big for email exchanges -- perhaps if we lived in the same town, we could haggle for months over endless cups of coffee. These dueling monologues that email conversations digress into? I'd rather watch a cat fart video. And I don't much like cats.

Here's my philosophy of humans and life: "Everyone is doing the best they can in every given moment. Their best may stink, but it is the best they can do." Some people's best is so horrendous, you have to keep those people out of your life -- angry, abusive people, for example. That's their best -- I believe those folks are deeply damaged and are acting out of their pain. And I walk away from them.

But most people are just normally damaged. They have bad moments. I try not to define folks by their worst moments, but by their best. And that includes police officers.

I don't think that we can agree that police officers are human. If we can't start there, we got nowhere to go.

Sometimes I bore myself, as a good friend of mine says.... Blah blah blah

In reply to this comment by GenjiKilpatrick:
That's a really great video. It's proof of a hypothesis I had too. = D

Tho with that framing, I can understand how you may have interpreted my & that activist's cynical statements considering how.. philosophical? your definition of corruption seems to be.

For many, I think they think plain old literal "not working the way it's s'pposed to" a good definition for corruption.

More specifically - Political, Police, & Corporate were the types of corruption I was alluding to.

Now if we're discussing that video & incident from a literal view.
Literally, Both the institutions of US government & police don't function in the way that they claim to be designed.
i.e. maximizing liberty while minimizing suffering

So with that shallower, pragmatic framing of corruption; you should probably see how my intemperate idealism could make me so passionate about the literal daily suffering of innocent people for no good reason
i.e. dancing in protest

~~~
Okay, I'll stop the wall of text here in a second.

Tho I would like to inquire about a few more things.

Your & @Shepppard's admiration for the positive effects of police officers seem to be based off the concept of The Correlation of Allegiance and Protection

"Since the police do provide some protection they obviously deserve my allegience"

I'd like to ask:

Who or what do you feel the police are protectors of? (proof?)

Does the sheer willingness to protect that who or what, justify the means by which that protection is accomplished?

@shiny says: "Lets say there was a certain King, whom you had never seen..and you are one of his peasants."

Ever notice how almost all religious analogies are about submitting to an authoritarian relationship? King/servant, Master/slave, and the all time favourite of shepherd and his sheep, for example...

And then there's our good friend Paul: "For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church" (Eph.5:21).

But don't worry Christian wives, if your husband thinks you must play a submissive role because the Bible says so, just tell him to go get himself crucified (Eph.5:25)

the dude issuing the warnings about the glass and such at the end.......i swear thats one of my good friends from high school (im from tulsa). he moved moved to joplin after school and it sounds just like him

I just am not comfortable trolling/trash talking/whatever you call it. It isn't my nature. I want to explain why I answered @blankfist so rudely.

I sent him the private PM below. He responded with the comment above, hours later. As I promised him, I responded in kind. It was his choice, not mine.

Sorry to inflict this silly battle of wills on the Sift. I am weary of this, as are all of you, I'm sure.

What I sent him and rottenseed (although rotten told me he didn't read it because it was too long. Maybe blank didn't either):

This whole sift talk was triggered by me being silent for 5 years about stuff that really bothered me, and finally having enough. (Well, and it was qualitatively worse a couple of days ago, that triggered it really.)

There is just no way that I am going to stay silent in the face of any trolling on this Sift Talk. I can't. I just can't.

I am getting weary of this, as are you, I suspect.

But I am also very very stubborn. And I have 5 years of silence built up. And there is No Bloody Way I am going to let one of you guys end this Sift Talk with a mean trolly dig at women.

Just so you know.

I once was on the Food Coop board of directors with a New York Jewish Lawyer. That was how he introduced himself to me, before we were elected, and he warned me that he would talk me down. I just looked at him and said, "You don't know me."

We became very good friends, argued for hours on various topics (outside of board meetings), and occasionally would remember our first meeting and laugh and laugh and laugh.

So here's fair warning. I am not going to let one of your troll "jokes" be the last thing on the Sift Talk Post.

New York Jewish Lawyer. I talked him DOWN.

You will not win this. This is my battle, my pent up frustration, my need to NOT be silent, not here and now.

I have already winced over several things on the Sift the past couple of days, the usual stuff, nothing to say, it is what it is.

But this Sift Talk. This is different. This is mine. You guys have the rest of the Sift. But this is mine.

Telling me to shut up is the very last thing you should be saying to me, if you really and truly want me to shut up.

Just so you know.... Fair warning.

blankfist wrote:
Okay, you've had your fun being all uppity. But lunch ain't gonna cook itself, and we're hungry.

What is funny, is my good friend loaned me the DVD and it has the original Japanese episodes with English subtitles. They did change some things at times. In the first episode there was a scientist killed and his daughter was give the option to launch missiles at the machine/robot that killed him. Here were the basic gist of the lines spoken by the leader Mark when she refused to fire:

English version: Good choice because revenge doesn't solve anything.

Japanese version: Weakling! You have shamed your father and your family!

>> ^smooman:

>> ^Duckman33:
>> ^rottenseed:
>> ^owatadorkiam:
no processing on the vocals....she seems to still hit all the right notes...I'm sorry, but it doesn't sound that bad.

I didn't know the term "tone-deaf" described a real thing...but it does. And you suffer from it.

owatadorkiam is not tone deaf. I'm a vocalist (yes I was paid to do it for a living at one time in my life) and sorry to say I didn't hear any sour notes. Granted she's no virtuoso, but she's not singing off key at all. What I expected to hear was horribly out of tune singing and heard nothing of the sort. And yes, I really wanted to hear her choke.

yes, he most certainly is, and it would appear you are as well. an avid musician myself, this made me cringe....BUT went ahead and had my mother, a pianist and classically trained vocalist for over 40 years, my brother, a professionally trained vocalist and avid musician (you should here his Faithfully by journey, hit it at karaoke this last weekend and he fucking OWNED it), and my good friend Mandy, a vocalist and musician by hobby who trained under one of Jessica Simpsons former vocal coaches.....
and they unanimously agreed that she fucking sucks. and not just the talky verses (cuz i know thats kind of her unique stlye) but the chorus and prechorus (especially the prechorus)
you didnt hear any sour notes? that sentence alone condemns you as tonedeaf. It wasnt chock full of em but there were PLENTY to choose from.
what i will say is this: she is certainly trained, she can carry a tune (sort of), but she is mediocre at best
but thats the music industry for you. me and my brother have been in bands playing locally trying to get exposure since we were in high school........and justin fucking beiber gets a multi million contract?
it has little to nothing to do with how talented or unique you are and everything to do with one of two things: luck/right place right time, or knowing the right people


As an avid musician myself, your post reeks of pretentiousness and unwarranted self-importance, regardless of the sporadic legitimacy of your comments.

And I'm a guy who has to actively struggle against being pretentious and exhibiting unwarranted self-importance. Tone it down, bro.

oh goodie! it's a pissing contest. i wonder who has the biggest dick????

secretly, i've always suspected that it was duckman. whip em out boys, let bea settle this.


>> ^Duckman33:

>> ^smooman:
>> ^Duckman33:
>> ^rottenseed:
>> ^owatadorkiam:
no processing on the vocals....she seems to still hit all the right notes...I'm sorry, but it doesn't sound that bad.

I didn't know the term "tone-deaf" described a real thing...but it does. And you suffer from it.

owatadorkiam is not tone deaf. I'm a vocalist (yes I was paid to do it for a living at one time in my life) and sorry to say I didn't hear any sour notes. Granted she's no virtuoso, but she's not singing off key at all. What I expected to hear was horribly out of tune singing and heard nothing of the sort. And yes, I really wanted to hear her choke.

yes, he most certainly is, and it would appear you are as well. an avid musician myself, this made me cringe....BUT went ahead and had my mother, a pianist and classically trained vocalist for over 40 years, my brother, a professionally trained vocalist and avid musician (you should here his Faithfully by journey, hit it at karaoke this last weekend and he fucking OWNED it), and my good friend Mandy, a vocalist and musician by hobby who trained under one of Jessica Simpsons former vocal coaches.....
and they unanimously agreed that she fucking sucks. and not just the talky verses (cuz i know thats kind of her unique stlye) but the chorus and prechorus (especially the prechorus)
you didnt hear any sour notes? that sentence alone condemns you as tonedeaf. It wasnt chock full of em but there were PLENTY to choose from.
what i will say is this: she is certainly trained, she can carry a tune (sort of), but she is mediocre at best
but thats the music industry for you. me and my brother have been in bands playing locally trying to get exposure since we were in high school........and justin fucking beiber gets a multi million contract?
it has little to nothing to do with how talented or unique you are and everything to do with one of two things: luck/right place right time, or knowing the right people

"My musician friends can beat up your musician friends!!! Derp derp!"
Look, I also used to sing "Faithfully", "Lights", "Separate Ways" along with "I want to Know What Love Is" (Foreigner), some Skid Row, Motley Crue, Nirvana, Def Leppard, Van Hagar, Van Halen, etc, etc. and many other songs from many other bands in my bands. I sang 6 nights a week 5 hours a night in one of the highest paid bands on the bar circuit at the time. I was told on a nightly basis that I covered the songs we played live better than the most of the original artists in a lot of cases. But yeah, whatever you say, I'm tone deaf. LOL I have been singing in bands since I was 17 and I'm 47 now. I'm pretty sure that alone qualifies me to have an opinion on her singing skills. So please don't try to lecture me on my ears, or singing ability.
My question is; Where exactly did I say she didn't suck? What part of me saying, "What I expected to hear was horribly out of tune singing" and "I really wanted her to choke" didn't you understand? Yes, I heard no sour notes. At least not any that made me cringe. Do I really have to explain my comment to that extent for you to comprehend what I was saying?
Sorry your brother couldn't make the grade. Life is tough, huh? And I'm glad he "fucking OWNED it" in a karaoke bar. (seriously? LOL) Sounds like you have a bunch of sour grapes to me. Period.