This Christmas, after all the economic's critique of the failure of the utility of gift giving---I finally figured one (there are other) purposes of gift giving for me---it's to give permission...Permission for extravagance, for excess, for activities, for pursuits, for...whatever it may be---within the context of the relationship you have with the recipient.

Nice.

*Promote

*related=http://videosift.com/video/Nick-Offermans-Handcrafted-Wood-Emojis

Just in time for holiday gift giving!

I guess some people consider cash to be the ultimate in lazy gift giving, while gift certificates are looked at as being somewhat less so, although not by much. I don't mind them as long as it's from somewhere I actually shop at.

Wrap THAT around your grungy neck, you hipster dick! Holiday gift-giving originality/cheapness meets sweet, insulating revenge.

Yeah I disagree with Penn on this point too. Christmas is a hodgepodge of myths and cultural traditions. Because some of those are based in the "Christian" religion and because Christians want to claim it solely a "religious" holiday is no reason for me to avoid it as an atheist. Santa, flying reindeer, xmas trees, gift giving, xmas dinner, xmas lights, yule logs, etc... Don't really have anything to do exclusively with the Christian religion so they don't get to claim ownership of it and expect me or anyone else to include the Christ myth in how we choose to celebrate it.

>> ^scottishmartialarts:
Mithras was a Persian god, not Roman. Although his mystery cult was very, very popular among the Roman Legions. Wherever we have evidence of a Legion presence, we also find evidence of Mithras cult. As I recall Mithras was Ahura Mazda's (the infinitely good god of the Zoroastrian faith) general in his crusade against the devil Ahriman. Darius the Great's conquests were largely motivated out of missionary zeal to spread the Zoroastrian religion.


Well, Mithra was the Persian name. Adding the "s" on the end was just how it was Latinized. But the Roman Mithraic cult doesn't, as far as scholars can tell, have much in common with the Persian cult beyond the name and a few elements of symbolism--a lion-headed "Arrimanus," for instance, a clear Latinization of Ahriman. It's perfectly acceptable to refer to the Roman version of Mithras as a Roman god.

It has to be said, though, that Fry's facts about Mithras are just wrong. In the first place, we don't actually know what the central beliefs about Mithras were. They were Mysteries, not be written down or revealed to outsiders. The doctrines of Mithraism perished with its last follower. Reconstructions of Mithraic doctrine like the ones Fry read are merely speculative interpretations of the images found in the Mithraea--the caves where the Mysteries of Mithras were enacted.

However, some of the things Fry said are just plain wrong even as mere speculation. Mithras is never depicted as being born in a cave or manger, for instance, but emerging from a rock or an egg. He didn't die for anyone's sins or to give people eternal life. The central image of Mithras was instead the tauroctony--Mithras' slaying of a bull, usually assisted by a dog, a serpent, and a crab, clearly astrological symbolism. While there are a few superficial similarities with Christianity--as Fry mentioned, the head of the cult of Mithras was called Papa, just as the Pope is--they do not seem to go very deep.

And finally, it would be very strange for the December 25th date of Christmas to come from the cult of Mithras simply because it was a private mystery religion. Public celebrations just weren't allowed.

However, I'm a little surprised that Fry didn't mention Dies Natalis Solis Invicti--the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. It was celebrated in the late Roman Empire around the same time as Christmas as a public holiday, and so is a prime candidate for being an influence on the date of Christmas.

His quick dismissal of Saturnalia as being only somewhat influential, though, is just plain wrong. Many of the traditions of Christmas clearly come out of Saturnalia--gift-giving, visiting friends, and lavish feasts and celebrations. Many elements of Northern European Christmas celebrations just as clearly come from the pagan holiday "Jol" or "Yule," such as hanging mistletoe as a sign of peace and love, and the ornamenting of an evergreen tree.

Christmas isn't about gifts or religion to me, it's about spending time with family and friends, eating mass quantities of tasty food and getting lots of good gigs. Most of the atheists I know participate in secular Christmas activities, and as far as I can tell, none of them are phased by Christmas trees, Santa Claus or eggnog.

I hate the consumerism, and the pressure on people to buy useless plastic crap they can't afford for people who don't need them. Gift giving should be limited to one modest gift per person, or no gifts at all.

I am also annoyed by Christians who see the word 'Holiday' as some kind of Jewish/Pagan conspiracy to destroy Christmas. No one owns this time of year. Christmas is a mish-mash of many different religious rituals, most of which pre-date Christianity by centuries. As most atheists already know, just about every Christian holiday was co-opted from some earlier religious holiday, and Christmas is no exception.

On a subversive level, I take a secret joy in seeing Christians worship a tree - like a bunch of pagans - every December.

hey everybody, thanks for the comments. No, I wasn't reading any cue cards.... I just kept looking at my ugly mug in the monitor.. lol. I know white folks have wonderful taste in gift giving, no question, but those were gifts I did receive (minus the Jay-Z dvd...thats my roommate's) I mean, twinkies for real?? Anyway, I am glad some of you got a chuckle, that was the point. I hope you all have a wonderful holiday. I have a few other vids on my myspace page. myspace.com/ercell. enjoy! Ercell

Exactly, what she said ^ about the kids and the gifts... if its a big family, extended or otherwise, and cash is strapped, just focus on the kids. This is what my extended family has done (which really isn't that big compared to some, but still), primarily our nuclear families exchange gifts privately xmas day, and the night before when the extended clan gets together the only gifts that are exchanged (aside from some small sweets and treats among my mom and her sibs) are between grandma and grandkids, and everyone spoils the two grandchildren that are actually still children (they're 6 and 9, the rest of us are in college or older, there was a huge age disparity between my one aunt and the rest of her sibs, so her kids are still pretty young)... but basically, we all came to this recognition several years ago that the gift giving was not what we should focus on and that xmas should be for kids... and anyway we adult grandkids were just like "whatever, the only thing we really want is someone to pay our credit cards off, but that's not gonna happen so we'll just settle for spending time together".

Creature from the Black Lagoon action fig from McFarlane, eh??? I think I just figured out what I want for xmas... damn, I'm gonna have to keep my eyes out for a deal on one of those suckers!

Anyway, what would I like? Well, a charter membership to Vsift would be nice, if anyone should happen to be reading this who needs ideas (got some familial frequenters of this site myself)...

Otherwise, my family is not too big on the gift giving now that all us kids are all grow-ed up, my grandmother for the last two years has given all her adult apartment dwelling grandchildren giant garbage-bag wrapped care packages of detergent, kleenex, toilet paper, and other household supplies. Basically we just spoil the two younger ones (which is backfiring, as they get older they get more obnoxious), my cousins ages 6 and 9, whom I've found out are getting a Wii, so I think that is what my whole family will be doing on xmas, playing Wii tennis.