Sometimes you wonder if there are people who are just completely unable to comprehend that some of us can watch something like that and not think about the race of the two people but rather the actions of them.

In reply to this comment by dannym3141:
Thank you very much for your support against the attack from dystopian. He has done this before on the issue of racism.

He's made a second comment which was a massive attempt at an insulting psycho-analysis to try and a) insult and antagonise me and b) discredit me to others as a racist.

I absolutely will not stoop to doing that to him, nor giving him a fake psycho analysis to try and illustrate his deep rooted character faults.

It really upsets me that there are people on the sift that would do that kind of thing. Disagreeing with me is fine, but trying to publically analyse me and give a heavily biased insulting rundown is really .. well, i have no words for it, i'm simply hurt.

Seeing that someone understood and can see what dyst was trying to do makes me feel a WHOLE lot better

To be clear, it was your dumb threat to longe that was the offender here, not the comment you tacked on after the fact. >> ^dannym3141:
Thank you spoco2, i'm glad some people could get their head around what i was saying. I got as far as "you're an idiot" before i completely blanked him out.
If someone can read my comment and summarise from it that i'm an idiot, i have absolutely no idea where to go from there.
You're absolutely right though dyst - you are no psychologist.
My statements:
Treating different people differently is not necessarily good.
A non-racist never needs to vet their opinions for racism - they don't need to TRY to not be racist.
Your accusations are personal and not intended to discredit my argument but to discredit me, but i forgive you that.
You have - as you have done before, yes i remember you doing this on exactly the same subject (racism) - read what i put, and substituted it for something else. You've blatantly accused me of things i didn't say, and everyone can see that, so you need not apologise. What i said is very concise and is absolutely accurate. When racism is truly gone, no one will even consider it an issue, no one will need to worry that they're going to be accidentally racist. And that will be a wonderful day.
I'm afraid my concepts of racism are beyond you. And that is indicative of why racism is still such a big issue, because people like you can't understand what a true non-racist viewpoint is. Sorry brother, i bow out discourse with you on this one, you can't keep up.
Edit:
I'd just like to add, dystopian, that i never made any kind of attack at you. Your pseudo-psycho-babble to try and "show my deep rooted problems" is some of the most rediculous hokum i've seen in a long while. What you've done is try and look like you're doing something intelligent, when what you're actually doing is finely magnifying any ambiguity in anything i say and exposing it to your own ends as "my deep rooted problems". I'm not going to stoop to this level, and i think you illustrate one of the worst things about the sift in that post. You're not interested in a discussion, you're interested in making your opponents look like racists/morons/assholes, leaving your argument as what, the last man standing?
I never insulted you. In the words of EBM - why are you being so hostile?

Thank you very much for your support against the attack from dystopian. He has done this before on the issue of racism.

He's made a second comment which was a massive attempt at an insulting psycho-analysis to try and a) insult and antagonise me and b) discredit me to others as a racist.

I absolutely will not stoop to doing that to him, nor giving him a fake psycho analysis to try and illustrate his deep rooted character faults.

It really upsets me that there are people on the sift that would do that kind of thing. Disagreeing with me is fine, but trying to publically analyse me and give a heavily biased insulting rundown is really .. well, i have no words for it, i'm simply hurt.

Seeing that someone understood and can see what dyst was trying to do makes me feel a WHOLE lot better

Thank you spoco2, i'm glad some people could get their head around what i was saying. I got as far as "you're an idiot" before i completely blanked him out.

If someone can read my comment and summarise from it that i'm an idiot, i have absolutely no idea where to go from there.

You're absolutely right though dyst - you are no psychologist.

My statements:
Treating different people differently is not necessarily good.
A non-racist never needs to vet their opinions for racism - they don't need to TRY to not be racist.

Your accusations are personal and not intended to discredit my argument but to discredit me, but i forgive you that.

You have - as you have done before, yes i remember you doing this on exactly the same subject (racism) - read what i put, and substituted it for something else. You've blatantly accused me of things i didn't say, and everyone can see that, so you need not apologise. What i said is very concise and is absolutely accurate. When racism is truly gone, no one will even consider it an issue, no one will need to worry that they're going to be accidentally racist. And that will be a wonderful day.

I'm afraid my concepts of racism are beyond you. And that is indicative of why racism is still such a big issue, because people like you can't understand what a true non-racist viewpoint is. Sorry brother, i bow out discourse with you on this one, you can't keep up.

Edit:
I'd just like to add, dystopian, that i never made any kind of attack at you. Your pseudo-psycho-babble to try and "show my deep rooted problems" is some of the most rediculous hokum i've seen in a long while. What you've done is try and look like you're doing something intelligent, when what you're actually doing is finely magnifying any ambiguity in anything i say and exposing it to your own ends as "my deep rooted problems". I'm not going to stoop to this level, and i think you illustrate one of the worst things about the sift in that post. You're not interested in a discussion, you're interested in making your opponents look like racists/morons/assholes, leaving your argument as what, the last man standing?

I never insulted you. In the words of EBM - why are you being so hostile?

>> ^dannym3141:
Forget it longde - i'm metaphorically moving to the front of the bus.
I couldn't disagree more really with you dystopian. I am glad this idiot got his ass kicked for initiating a physical fight with someone.
I know i'm not a racist, i have absolutely no racism in my body, i have never let slip a racist epithet in anger or anything else. I can watch this video and form my opinions without questioning myself or vetting myself for racism - because i'm flat out not racist.
I think if you are worried that you formed an opinion based on race, you're contributing to problems with racism. Think about it - if you have to stop yourself and question yourself before you form an opinion about this dispute between 2 differently coloured people, are you really treating people different to you as an equal? Because you wouldn't do that if you were talking to say, your father. If you change how you act to someone because they're different, it isn't a good thing.
I've said it before, i'll say it again:
Challenging ourselves to stop our racism is OF COURSE a good thing, but racism will not be truly gone until it's not even an issue to consider to us anymore. For me, there is no issue to consider - i watch this video as one PERSON starting a fight with another PERSON and getting ass-kicked. The colour of their skin is just an identifying feature to me, like hair colour.
I actually feel slightly sorry for anyone that has to vet themselves for fear of accidentally being racist. I can't imagine how difficult it must be, i've never had to even remotely consider it. It stems right back to my primary school upbringing when i was about 4 or 5 years old. Back then, having someone with a different skin colour in your class was rare, but we had the only jamaican girl in the entire school in our class. 15 years later, i discovered that there was some racism that took place, and i was absolutely horrified and amazed - not only did i never see it, but it never even occured to me that she was in any way different to me.


Note: I downvoted your comment when it was just a lame response to longe, before you tacked on your response to my comment.

I know little about you, other than the fact that you don't seem very smart, so I'm not going to 'prejudge' your internal racial attitudes.

However, there are some clues here.

Your responses to other people on this subject have been highly emotional.
You are generally very defensive on the subject of race.
In your comment to longe, you self identify with the white combatant.
You've admitted that you think personal introspection on the subject of race is 'part of the problem'.

I'm no psychologist, but it doesn't take Sigmund Freud to tell you that there are probably some issues here.

Thinking is ALWAYS a good thing, regardless of the subject, and whomever taught you to turn off your brain when it comes to matters of race did you a grave disservice. As I said above in my comment to chilaxe, our minds are subjective by nature, which means that many of the things we understand to be true in this world just flat out aren't. Without critical thought, those misconceptions just stay up there, building strength with each new year of rationalization and self-deception.

In short: Your brain is your friend, so use it.

I'm sorry to put you in a metaphorical amberlamps, but you did fuck with me. (just kidding)

Forget it longde - i'm metaphorically moving to the front of the bus.

I couldn't disagree more really with you dystopian. I am glad this idiot got his ass kicked for initiating a physical fight with someone.

I know i'm not a racist, i have absolutely no racism in my body, i have never let slip a racist epithet in anger or anything else. I can watch this video and form my opinions without questioning myself or vetting myself for racism - because i'm flat out not racist.

I think if you are worried that you formed an opinion based on race, you're contributing to problems with racism. Think about it - if you have to stop yourself and question yourself before you form an opinion about this dispute between 2 differently coloured people, are you really treating people different to you as an equal? Because you wouldn't do that if you were talking to say, your father. If you change how you act to someone because they're different, it isn't a good thing.

I've said it before, i'll say it again:
Challenging ourselves to stop our racism is OF COURSE a good thing, but racism will not be truly gone until it's not even an issue to consider to us anymore. For me, there is no issue to consider - i watch this video as one PERSON starting a fight with another PERSON and getting ass-kicked. The colour of their skin is just an identifying feature to me, like hair colour.

I actually feel slightly sorry for anyone that has to vet themselves for fear of accidentally being racist. I can't imagine how difficult it must be, i've never had to even remotely consider it. It stems right back to my primary school upbringing when i was about 4 or 5 years old. Back then, having someone with a different skin colour in your class was rare, but we had the only jamaican girl in the entire school in our class. 15 years later, i discovered that there was some racism that took place, and i was absolutely horrified and amazed - not only did i never see it, but it never even occured to me that she was in any way different to me.

I really enjoyed this movie, for me it was certainly one of the better independent films of 2009. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to fans of fantasy movies, although it's probably not for everyone.

There are times when it's apparent it's an indy film, but for the most part the movie achieves high production values. At no point did the acting make me cringe as so many badly made indy and B movies do. Those I simply can't watch.

Stormsinger is quite right when he talks about world building, and about the world co-existing 'just under the skin' of the real world we all live in. In this respect it reminded me of Neil Gaiman and his book Neverwhere and similar.

If you like the sort of fantasy movie which subtly suggests reality is not quite what it seems, that there is magic just under the surface if we could only see it, then this may be one you want to see.

There's certainly an element of the surreal to the movie, so I can see how it's reminded others of similarly surreal flicks, but this is not dystopian sci-fi, it's really more for fantasy fans that sci-fi buffs.

Same as Dystopian, I loved D&D at the time, but found the cartoon to be weak. I never really got into any Saturday morning stuff. Robotech was like a drug to me.

My favorite fictional shows over time have been:
The 80's Twiligh Zones (first two seasons)
Max Headroom
The Indiana Jones Chronicles - The teen years with the WWI stuff, not the little kid episodes.
(Indiana Jones was actually a real eye opener with an episode that had a character talking about how war equates to profits. Another episode going on about the philosophy of how the average person would never murder anyone, but put them in an army and they'll do it out of a sense of duty)
MST3K
ST: TNG
Red Dwarf
Babylon 5
BSG
24

For the most part I believe those shows where attempts to make good television for the sake of good television. I notice 24 has the occasional right or left wing issue thrown in, but it's rather passive.

I *very* strongly agree with Dystopian.

If it was just a voiceover that doesn't "add anything" I might side with those arguing this is a dupe.

This is just RIGHT off the hilarity meter because it's in Chinese

Hell I was ready to promote this as soon as I saw it - and will does so assuming no one is violently opposed to returning it and letting it takes its rightful place in the Sift? This is pure comedy gold largely because of the *latenight smackdown fighting.

I agree that Fox News is not so much a 'news network' as it is an 'infotainment' house - one that is predominated by a conservative point of view. But it has to be said (very loudly) that CNN, the NY Times, PBS, and MSNBC are 'infotainment' houses that are predominated by a liberal point of view. And (quite frankly) people have no right to complain about Fox News because all they are doing is following the template that was created years before they started broadcasting. CNN, TNN and others established the 'infotainment' standard before FOX showed up.

So for White House flacks to say that Fox News "isn't" a news outlet, but that CNN/MSNBC/NYT/AP/USA Today (et al) ARE news outlets smacks of a rather dystopian double standard. Basically Axelrod & the other white house cronies are just mad because Fox is the only news channel that is fact checking their bull$#!+ - and they don't like it. They're skating on some pretty thin ice. This is Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia or Baghdad "Bob" style attempted media control and pretty creepy that they are being so open about it.

I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you were trying to make the point that consumerism was an effective form of democracy. I earnestly concede your point that businesses without business go out of business, though I wouldn't call it 'bringing down' which is a term that implies deliberate intent.

Corporations do care about small towns. Walmart is famous for setting up shop in small towns and putting local businesses out of business. In many places, Walmart is the only shopping option. When a business as large as Walmart comes to town, they can usually strongarm local governments into tax breaks and beneficial infrastructure projects. I only know of one case where Walmart was prevented from building a store, and that was in the small town of Los Angeles. I sure hope you are right about Walmart, but I only see people becoming more dependent on Walmart as they ravage the underclass.

Democratic government is people power by definition, even when the government you elect fails to stand up to powerful financial interests. I too am disillusioned about the current state of our state, but what gives me hope is that more and more people are becoming aware of these problems through increased access to information and technology.

Despite my screenname, I don't believe things are getting worse. I believe things have always been bad, and that it is only our increased access to information and communication that gives us the perception that things are getting worse. This new awareness (potentially) gives us the opportunity to diagnose problems and (hopefully) fix them. I believe the shift in the electorate from Bush towards Obama is evidence of this, and whether or not his administration has the power to make the changes they promised, he will at least make it easier for the next president.

This is why I see hope in darkness, and the will for change in our dystopian present.

>> ^Sagemind:
A teacher's place is not to inspire anger in kids but to invoke creative and critical thought.
By debasing this student, both directly and publicly, he is only building more walls in the kids brain and causing him to close down even more. This is shown by the way the kid closes off and reverts to finding it all a joke.
I don't know what ever lead up to this debacle of events, as it is not shown, but the teacher should have found a more creative way to educate and inspire this student to evolve his thinking and maybe to give a dam!


What a bunch of hippy bullshit. This kind of thinking is what leads us to today's world people. All hail the new god - he travels under the guise of well-meaning. When a parent is pinned for shouting at or delivering moderate physical punishment to their child, he smiles, and another child grows up believing that they are right in all things and must regret nothing - because there are no real consequences.

When a man is jailed and sued for defending himself, his family and his home from intruders, he laughs, and another generation set out on their career choice of 'criminal' - because apparently crime does pay.

And when we tie our teachers hands so that they cannot shout at a child or give them a lengthy detention without a week's notice, when we prevent them from getting the respect (mixed with a degree of fear) from students, then we end up with apathetic under-achievers.

This man has passion and god love him for it. By rediculing this kid for idolising a bunch of fucking losers and law breakers, he might have just turned this kid into something worthy of society.

I've seen the effect that the kind of teachers you hope for has on a school. You've no idea what you're talking about. If you think that this teacher's vehemence and words were not inspiring, you're more scummy than the kid that got the ear-bashing.

A thousand upvotes for dystopian's comments. Preach it brother.

Dystopian Future Today

Agreed, although we'd probably disagree on exactly how to reduce the size of government.

Probably. After all, I'm a pro-military neocon, eh?

Disagree. They are definitely inflammatory but from what I've seen on the sift, they tend to focus on the nut-jobs and on how they are protesting. It's better for ratings.

I agree with you that they focus on the nutjobs - but I disagree with you about how they serve that up. People like MadCow and Olberman do NOT at any point go out of their way to say they are focusing only on the goofiest, most extremist fringe element. Quite the opposite. They do their damndest to make it look like the group is nothing BUT extremists. Same with Pelosi, Ried, and a lot of other Democrats who (frighteningly) are elected officials slandering the people.

It isn't hard when there is a large protest to go out and find the kook fringe. It existed in the Iraq war protests, and Republicans tried to portray it as normal. Now the neolibs are faced with large scale protests to their policies, and they are doing the same thing. Sadly, there are FAR too many people who are easily deceived by such unscruplulous methods. Here is a great example - a quote from dystopian...

but to be clear, Dick Armey's Neo-Con astroturf outfit FreedomWorks© is leading the charge against health care

Now - whether he meant it or not this is a backhanded attempt to make it sound like the protests are just right-wing nutjobs. Bull. The Iraq war protests were ginned up and sponsored by left-wing neolib nutjob extremists like Code Pink and such - but that does NOT mean that the people who attended them weren't legitimately concerned citizens who passionately believed in an issue. Groups could get tens of thousands to show up and protest because it was a REAL movement which reflected national sentiment. The fringe was there poking and prodding it along - but the essential core of the protest was legitimate.

EXACT same thing today. Some right wing groups may be doing some organizing, but the vast bulk of people who show up are NOT right wing kooks. They are people who are concerned about massive spending, big government intrusion into markets, inflation, debt, and general desire for a conservative fiscal approach. They are worried that Obama is doing way too much and has way too little to do it with, and they are there to shout "Stop!" For Pelosi, Reid, MadCow, Olberman, & the sifters to attempt to justify ignoring them just because a 'neocon' fringe element is along for the ride is insipid.

As long as you aren't calling for banning or silencing the other (admittedly there is some of that, which I don't agree with either), I see it as merely the right to show your disagreement.

On this I agree. I didn't like it when Republicans wanted to stifle Iraq war protests either, and I don't like it when Pelosi, Obama, Ried, MadCow & the rest want to silence the other side to grease the skids of thier agenda. And they DO want to silence the 'teabaggers', make no mistake.

(Although I still don't think it has the intended effect of countering the use of neocon.)

I don't see it so much as a 'counter' as it is a 'OK - right back at you'. If at some time the neolibs change and stop falsely labeling conservative thought then I'll adjust my method accordingly.

Relevant because the old couple's needs were relayed to the local church bishop by a concerned LDS neighbor. The old couple were members, but weren't regularly attending. I got this as I helped them haul off the trash. A need was seen and they stepped up. The couple was not 'alienated', and the service was not held over thier heads as a carrot.

Guys like dystopian are claiming that the official church position is to 'cut them off'. "OK now be good and come to church or NO AC UNIT FOR YOU...!" I relate this story (and I've got a ton more) to point out that the image of horrible LDS people cutting off family & friends as a matter of official church policy is baloney. When it happens, then it's an isolated case of individuals who are NOT following church doctrine. If such behavior was brought to the attention of an LDS bishop, they'd call such persons to repent.

I've seen LDS communities in Virginia, Illinois, Utah, Michigan, California, Missouri, and Texas. It's pretty much the same wherever you go. They are generally honest, hard working, family oriented, service minded people. I reject the erroneous, misleading claim that it is official church position to be isolationist and cruel. Bad experiences are not the result of official church doctrine. Like most cases where people slam religion - it is a matter where bad people are doing bad things and the "Church" gets blamed for it. Blame the individuals for being jackasses, and quit trying to say that they represent the entire population and organization.

Rick Riordan had a great comment in one of his Olympian books... The god Posiedon was explaining to the main character (his son) why Anteus had killed so many people in Posidon's name. "Just because people do things in my name does not mean that I approve of their actions. When people do terrible things in the name of a God, it usually says more about them than about us."

That nails it 100%. These people who are 'cutting off' thier family members are not doing it because Church told them to, or because "God" told them too. They're doing it because they're jerks, and they'd do the same thing no matter what religion (or non-religion) they belonged to. They're just using the church as an excuse to justify what they're doing when the church would tell them to do the opposite.