>> ^entr0py:

Oh. . . so the allegation is that the ATF was holding back in taking down petty gun runners so they could gather evidence to take down the entire organization. The same sort of tactic that the FBI often employs in fighting organized crime within the US.


No, that's not the allegation, that's just the excuse the ATF are using now it's public.

If that had been their actual intention they would have been working with Mexican officials to track the guns once they crossed the border, then arresting those in possesion of the guns, and making cases against them.

As stated in the video "It was all kept secret from Mexico".

@GeeSussFreeK

I agree that it is a move in the right direction. It is a very important step to assist in harm reduction for citizens; however, it completely fails in some areas.

One area of harm reduction that it completely misses is the lack of quality control. Unless you do independent analysis of what you are buying (assuming you have some lab equipment, knowledge, time, and desire), you have no way of knowing the purity of the illegal(or decriminalized) substance is being bought. This is bad in two ways: (1) the can be cut with harmful (varying degrees) substances to increase overall profit and (2) this can greatly affect the strength of the substance - which leads to accidental overdoses.

The second area of fail for decriminalization is that it doesn't affect the criminal supply structure at all. It doesn't remove the drug dealers off the street and doesn't stop any money from being channeled back to the drug cartels.

The above two points (and I'm sure some other ones) are why you will find some people who strongly oppose decriminalization as a midstep towards full legalization and control. I think that some feel that decriminalization wouldn't be good enough or that it would be a false midstep (i.e. offered up to placate the people and kill the momentum for full legalization.)

Again, decriminalization is fantastic for helping those that are addicts. The government did a big study on veterans come back from Vietnam because a large percentage of them did various/multiple drugs while there because it was so stressful. They found that after a year of being home, less than half still used drugs. It was either 3 or 5 years later, a small percentage used recreationally and 1-3 percent still used them very frequently. I've read several studies on this phenomenon and it holds out that 1-3 percent of people that try a substance become an addict (varying degrees.) Most people just need a perceptual change if they start abandoning their responsibilities because of *insert object of obsession here* (i.e. kick in the pants.) Personally, I ran into this with NHL 2010 for the PS3. Seriously how much more fun can it get? But I started missing homework, missing deadlines from my personal projects, etc. I realized this and actually sold my TV and PS3 to some coworkers to get it out of my place. However because of brain chemistry or personality traits, addicts need professional help. Decriminalization can free a person from the criminal burden when seeking help for substance addiction. (Small side note to pre-address expected thoughts in some people's heads: most addicts get caught doing illegal things like breaking into houses, etc... The point is that most addicts get into this position to feed and because of their addiction. I'm not advocating ignoring the responsibility for those actions, but most reactions focus on dealing punishment instead of treating the root cause.) Over time, decriminalization can also help with removing the social stigmatization of seeking help for addiction. But to be honest, legalizing would be better at that.

I don't see decriminalization as very likely across the US. Fear is the daily diet here and drugs make great PR material for fear. Also there is a great deal of money and the government fighting it. Most government bodies get extra money in their budget to fight the "war on drugs" and don't want to give up that money. Lobbying efforts will mainly be against it: by pharma (why pay for something when you can just grow something that addresses your specific need?) and prisons (US's new slavery system - See how they learned! Now with less visibility and a few whites too! ^{I kid, I kid}) In this regard, I hope that California will take the lead in showing the nation that the world won't come crashing down when this happens. It will eventually as the older people die off. That sounds callous, but it reminds me of scientific advances. Typically a generation can only go so far because of the mental knowledge base that they grew up with. Future generations grew up build their knowledge foundation on the mid- to end-work of the previous generations and are able to look at it differently and advance it.

Well, that seems to be a subject that can make me type... I need to go some work done.

Once the tide of public opinion starts rolling, no army can stop it. The Prohibition fascists don't realize they've already lost. Unjust laws should be disobeyed.

The whole world is watching this vote. If Prop 19 passes, once the other states see the "windfall" (which won't save CA btw) they'll also pass similar. It won't kill the Mexican drug cartels but it will blacken their eye for sure.

>> ^kymbos:

I love the way it degenerates into an 'American Conversation' in which both people talk and neither listens.


I find it amusing to note that yet again, it's the conservative side that is the first to interrupt the person speaking.

If alcohol is legal..then so should weed. It doesn't get any simpler than that. The guy's argument about how it gives a legal platform for the mexican cartels is standard fearmongering..they make all their money BECAUSE it's illegal. Legalize it..grow it in the US by US citizens and those mexican drug cartels lose a LOT of their income. Smaller prison population...more tax revenue. more freedom. win win win win.

Who do you think helps fund the opposition to legalization?

I'm sorry. Tongue in cheek. I never imagined anyone would not see through that, even more if they listened to the song. That is, those that do not know it already know it.

Good points all however. ;

Do you always go around on half cock?

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

..wtf does this song have to do with legalization?
Also, who the fuck sincerely agrees that veterans losing a possible job opportunity outweighs the benefits of decriminalization?
"Suuure we could have:
Collected 9 billion in tax revenue,
Saved millions in prison housing & court processing fees,
Eliminated 60% of the income from most drug cartels and
Restored the public's faith in & cooperation with law enforcement..
but at least Bob's still a Narco Pilot!"

..wtf does this song have to do with legalization?

Also, who the fuck sincerely agrees that veterans losing a possible job opportunity outweighs the benefits of decriminalization?

"Suuure we could have:
Collected 9 billion in tax revenue,
Saved millions in prison housing & court processing fees,
Eliminated 60% of the income from most drug cartels and
Restored the public's faith in & cooperation with law enforcement..

but at least Bob's still a Narco Pilot!"

>> ^ButterflyKisses:

She must be thinking of the beheadings in Mexico recently by the drug cartels.


I was thinking maybe she was flipping though the channels and mistook breaking bad as a news broadcast.

She must be thinking of the beheadings in Mexico recently by the drug cartels.

It's not entirely clear from the video, but was it the case that they were flying in that area without a flight plan or proper clearance? I mean, obviously this is a horrible outcome for such a mistake and that fighter pilot sounded like he was just itching to kill something... but the above is true, doesn't the family have to assume some portion of the responsibility here? Shouldn't they have known that it was a no-fly area, strictly (and lethally) enforced?

All that said, clearly this is an utter waste of life and what a disgrace this 'war on drugs' has become. There's got to be a better way to defeat the incredibly profitable incentives that drug cartels have to traffick narcotics.

A short list of people or invisible omni-beings to blame:
Nigerian Muslims
Allah
International drug cartels
Wall Street insiders
Gumby
Vampirella
Department of Homeland Security
FAA
Delta, for not arming all airline employees with tasers, bear-spray, and mandatory Krav Maga lessons and semi-annual proficiency evaluations.
Ghost of Mohamed

I've never smoked pot and never will, but I would like to see it decriminalized/legalized. Like the good judge said, there are some real (and really good) benefits. And who knows, maybe there would even be a drop in gang/drug cartel violence and maybe we could better afford health care initiatives and the like.

Over the past summer, the FBI and other agencies at the federal and state levels, were cracking down on questionable sales. This was due to a number of instances, in which, arms were being sent abroad to foreign conflicts. The closest to the USA, is the Mexican drug war. Many of the arms seized were found to have been purchased in the states, and very closely to the way the narrator went about his 'buys'. In some cases, the drug cartels would hire 'Americanized' looking people to go buy the firearms, and then pay the person handsomely to take it 'off their hands'. I am not sure if this is still going on or not. But, I would bet fair money the practice goes on.

It is simply to bad, that anyone selling a firearm is not required to pass a background check, regardless of how often they sell. If someone REALLY needs a firearm quickly, it should be VERY reasonable to ask why. Sucidual persons, those about to break the law, those fearing some event or moment, etc. Law enforcement officals should be notified. That would be the responsible action.

Secession eh? Better think through that more than just "oh we'll get our rights back." Bye bye federal funding, hello wave of drug cartels and illegal immigrants. Your state will not be funded enough to handle this, so you'll eventually request help from neighboring countries. At that point, you'll probably feel really stupid. This is why the average joe is not in charge of anything politically-related. You don't know what is best.

When I heard he had been in Argentina this morning, I was thinking it would be something really serious, like he's selling secrets to some Latin American country, or coordinating operations with a drug cartel.

I'm not sure he's really ruled that out, but it seems a bit odd for the Governor of a state to think he can have an ongoing affair with a mistress in another country and not get caught.

As for the hypocrisy, I almost guarantee you he'll still try to run for President in 2012. Republicans have no shame.

>> ^rougy:
So...what I'm hearing is...some people think that treating Palistinians more harshly will make them stop strapping bombs to themselves? You know, show them who's boss?
I wonder how many Palestinians were killed by the IDF this month?
Wonder how many Israeli's were killed by Palestinians?
Is it a one-to-one ratio? Probably not.
And the settlers? That really is an issue that has to be addressed. To all the world, it just looks like a racist land grab. I'm sorry to say that, but it's hard to describe it any other way.
Shalom.


My point was, that the treatment was not harsh for harshness' sake. The point is to make it impossible for a suicide bomber to be able to strap on a bomb and get inside an Israeli city. If there were no suicide bombers, there would be no wall...

I happen to be one of the vast majority of Israelis who had a friend die to a suicide attack. This isn't a far-away news story to me. This is real life.

I don't have any numbers for you on the Israeli vs Palestinian deaths this month, but what if I did? Do you really think anyone would be content at a one-to-one ratio? Yes, they only have under-equipped, under-manned squads of guerrilla fighters. Is it conceivable to you that any nation with an army wouldn't use it to defend it's own citizens?
Tell me you honestly believe that if a Mexican drug cartel started suicide-bombing San Diego, the US army would stand by and do nothing...

I'm against the settlers and their entire agenda. To me they're a bunch of religious fanatics that only want to do what they think God told them, and that happens to be "Take back all the parts of Israel that aren't part of Israel any more" at the moment.

We evacuated Gush-Katif once (The settlements in Gaza, some of which were whole towns, with shopping centers and all) and we can evacuate the current ones. Not with this government however, since half of the ministers are settlers themselves...

I sincerely hope Netanyahu keeps going with Obama in this direction, but I can't see it happening with the current government. Ah well. Governments last 2-3 years here, so let's hope Livni gets more votes next time...