Wow, talk about analogy fail.

According to what definition of "feminism" are these women feminists? Oh yeah, your own prejudicial stereotype (one which seems quite common unfortunately). As for comparing it to Christianity, you are way, way off.

Christians have a book of doctrine; some follow it closely (like this guy), and are called "fundamentalists". Others distance themselves from some of its many moral failings, and are called "moderates". What Harris criticises about the moderates is that, as a silent majority, they lend credence to the loud, hateful fringe (this criticism applies just as well to muslims and jews). And why do they hesitate to take a firm stance against the fundamentalists? Because they know that, religion-wise, the fundamentalists are right, and that they - the moderates - are the half-hearted christians.

I don't think I have to spell out the other half of your failed analogy, by now the point should be quite clear. Next time, you might want to read up on your social history before giving lessons. For starters, have some wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

As for complaining about feminists not swarming to the podiums to call out this display of extremely bad taste, don't you think they have much more important things yet to do? You know, like fighting for equal pay, reproductive rights, against job discrimination, sexual harassment, domestic abuse, etc etc, not to mention the battles to be fought in developing and/or religion-ridden countries?



>> ^Lawdeedaw:

Yes--the feminists will complain in some small way. That's not the problem--but it is.
What he is saying is that most feminists won't jump on the podium and do what's right. They will burn their bras on a march, they will call out small injustices when it's a guy versus a woman everyday of their lives, but they will give this five minutes and then move on without a care in the world.
This is equal to Dan Savage and why he hates moderate Christians who don't scream about the far right who bash gays. Those that don't stand up more than just "Oh, it's wrong."
I don't hate feminists, but these ARE feminists. They just happen to be the far RIGHT feminists that don't belong. Just like the far RIGHT Christians... But then, I have been around true feminists like these women...
And hp, so you have changed your mind? Are far right Christians now not of the religious, but are mere dicks because they don't represent the movement? I doubt it... Just something to think on my friend. A bit of food for ye mind.

RT if you're ever going to get as good at spin as FOX your 'experts' not only need to support the ethos you're pushing, but they need to be so in favor of it, they make the anchors look neutral in comparison. And when you show clips that supposedly support your position that don't actually support it one way or the other, your lead in needs to be much stronger so as to cue the audience more to your way of thinking.

Seriously, they show a clip that supposedly shows a massive flipflop in the story and the biggest change is them saying the wife was used as a shield, to she charged the SEALs. Frankly that clears up how she shielded him and her willingness. Secondly all the expert can say is it was illegal if he surrendered and they shot him anyways and that you can only speculate whether that happened or not, but we have no idea.

People treat this like it was the police showing up for some domestic abuse squabble, and they shot the guy for being angry. This was a man who headed an organization responsible for thousands of people's death. Who specifically targeted civilians, and used his own people as living bombs. And no that's not an emotional plea saying he's a bad man and deserved to die. It's a listing of factual behaviors showing the man is very capable of and willing to use lethal force. Its a matter of risk assessment for the SEALs; how much latitude do you give someone before deciding the potential for them to kill you is too great? With a man that had a history like Bin Laden I'm going to say probably not a lot.

I think that complaining about petty little things like this depreciates the actual focus on real sexisim, domestic abuse, ect. Yeah I know misogyny exist (I did grow up with that shit) but I don't take every man online seriously when they make jokes about women. I don't know...maybe I'm naive and they really do want me to get them a sammich.

@spoco2 I think it's stupid to make up background about a video (or even worse about someone YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW) You like fart jokes some people like silly videos of young people punching each other in the genitals...to each their own.

I'm done with this baby mama drama...

I don't think it's fair to place the "women are offended" blame on people like Gwiz alone. Offensive comments are an obvious landmine; most people go around them, some people run up and jump on them. I have no idea if that makes any sense to people who aren't me.

Part of being in a community (especially and particularly an internet community) is trusting that the people you're with have the emotional maturity to deal with things in a sensible, coherent way, ESPECIALLY in the event that something you've said is offensive.

I guess I'm saying that something being offensive, and someone taking offense, are vastly different things. I feel like it's all completely fucking trivial, and getting worked up about it is an exercise in futility.

Sexism, domestic abuse and violence of a related sort? Those are the problems that deserve this kind of attention and scrutiny and energy. The sift is just commentary.

>> ^legacy0100:

Far East Asian media is dominated by feminine mentality simply because the female audience and fan participation vastly outnumber the male audience. Both men and women in public media are depicted as people with feelings and pretty hair and such. But this doesn't mean there's less domestic violence in Asian cultures.
In fact, there are more unreported domestic abuse in Asian countries than there are in United States. People also fight, people get hit by cars, people get killed in Asian countries with the same rate as any other countries. How do you explain that according to your ad images?

The valuing of the masculine over the feminine doesn't need to be advertised in East Asian culture; it's taken as read. Fish don't advertise water. In Japan, for instance, it's extremely difficult to find a career as a woman that would come close to the social status and earning potential that men can acquire.

I think you're conflating individualist values with masculine values, to be quite honest. There is nothing "masculine" about cooperation, and nothing inherently "feminine" about individualism. The reason the Northern European peoples were able to have female leaders going back centuries had everything to do with their individualism, and not much to do with their masculinism; they shared the latter with their military foes, and only with the valuing of the individual was it possible to conceive of, for example, Queen Boadicea, who gave the Romans so much difficulty in Britain.

I'm not sure I wholly agree with what she claims at the 4th segment of the video about consequences of objectifying men and about femininity vs masculinity.

She claims that valuing masculinity over femininity leads to violence.

Far East Asian media is dominated by feminine mentality simply because the female audience and fan participation vastly outnumber the male audience. Both men and women in public media are depicted as people with feelings and pretty hair and such. But this doesn't mean there's less domestic violence in Asian cultures.

In fact, there are more unreported domestic abuse in Asian countries than there are in United States. People also fight, people get hit by cars, people get killed in Asian countries with the same rate as any other countries. How do you explain that according to your ad images?

She also complains that in her society masculine values are prioritized over feminine values, and that leads to violence.

Your culture of glorifying masculinity has brought universal suffrage mind you, while most other countries where they prioritize cooperation of community and other 'feminine' values end up oppressing women because they want to keep things the way they are.

Historically most Northern European countries valued masculine values over feminine. And yet these countries were the ones who brought women into battlefields in Roman times and also adopted the first Universal suffrage.

Stick to your original comments about media effecting women's body image lady. Don't get off track.

Yes, because we also allow Jews and Christians to stone their children for misbehaving on the grounds of freedom of religion.

>> ^quantumushroom:

The left may not condone beating one's wife, but due to moral relativism it cannot condemn the same. There is no moral authority to stop 1.5 billion muslims from exercising their freedom of religion.

>> ^quantumushroom:

According to the religion of peace, Islam "permits a man to hit his wife but only if she doesn't do as he asks. The beating must cease if the woman complies with her husband's demands. Beating is also intended to be the last resort of coercing submission, behind verbal abuse and abandonment."
The left may not condone beating one's wife, but due to moral relativism it cannot condemn the same. There is no moral authority to stop 1.5 billion muslims from exercising their freedom of religion.

What?

Haha, are you seriously suggesting that freedom of relgion, letting a muslim practise his relgion = letting him beat his wife. Oh wow.

>> ^Payback:

>> ^dannym3141:
>> ^Payback:
Personally, I feel that even when the other person "likes it" eg. extreme s/m, it is still abuse.
That is a really, really unfair thing to say. Abuse CAN occur in relationships like that, probably in ways which aren't easy to grasp from an observer, but consensual bdsm is certainly not abuse.
There's a word for people who insults/attacks something because they don't understand it.....

I am not being a troll, or anything else you are alluding to. I was commenting in the context of the video's content. A woman, like the one pictured, enduring the beating the woman in the video portrays, is suffering from abuse, whether she likes it or not. If said woman does happen to be one of those people who do like being abused to this extreme, she SHOULD be in therapy, not giving some power-sick fuck his jollies. For that matter, anyone who gets off on inflicting the kind of damage portrayed should be having their head shrunk as well, if not removed from public.
I fully realize my previous comment could be taken in the way you seem to have. I was not referring to "mainstream" BDSM, just the other end where physical damage, like in the video, occurs. Hence the term "extreme s/m".


I'm not going to be able to accept any interpretation of the sentence "extreme bdsm is abuse" other than an ironic interpretation. It's even more insulting to say that "if you're into extreme bdsm you should be in therapy". It's not up to any one of us to judge someone on what they find enjoyable unless it's harmful to others.

If it's not consensual, it's abuse.
BDSM is a term which refers to consensual acts.
As soon as something crosses into abuse, it ceases to be BDSM.

It's like saying "that flower is so red that it's black" - it doesn't make sense. It's like saying "the car is going 29 miles per hour, which is so close to 30 miles per hour that it's 30 miles per hour!"

The car is either going at 30, or it's <30. Just because you or me couldn't tell the difference with our measuring devices doesn't make the car go any faster or slower.
Edit: And i certainly wasn't accusing you of being a troll.

>> ^dannym3141:
>> ^Payback:
Personally, I feel that even when the other person "likes it" eg. extreme s/m, it is still abuse.
That is a really, really unfair thing to say. Abuse CAN occur in relationships like that, probably in ways which aren't easy to grasp from an observer, but consensual bdsm is certainly not abuse.
There's a word for people who insults/attacks something because they don't understand it.....


I am not being a troll, or anything else you are alluding to. I was commenting in the context of the video's content. A woman, like the one pictured, enduring the beating the woman in the video portrays, is suffering from abuse, whether she likes it or not. If said woman does happen to be one of those people who do like being abused to this extreme, she SHOULD be in therapy, not giving some power-sick fuck his jollies. For that matter, anyone who gets off on inflicting the kind of damage portrayed should be having their head shrunk as well, if not removed from public.
I fully realize my previous comment could be taken in the way you seem to have. I was not referring to "mainstream" BDSM, just the other end where physical damage, like in the video, occurs. Hence the term "extreme s/m".

>> ^AnimalsForCrackers:

>> ^dannym3141:
>> ^Payback:
Personally, I feel that even when the other person "likes it" eg. extreme s/m, it is still abuse.
That is a really, really unfair thing to say. Abuse CAN occur in relationships like that, probably in ways which aren't easy to grasp from an observer, but consensual bdsm is certainly not abuse.
There's a word for people who insults/attacks something because they don't understand it.....

Yeah, agreed, I think there's a pretty clear ethical distinction between the two. Kinda trivializes the real issue of familial/spousal abuse and it's victim's plight to bother about what mutually consenting adults(of sound decision making capacity) find pleasureable and do in private.
I guess it could be very charitably described as abuse if used in the most vague, indescript terms possible. It seemed like you were (unintentionaly?) equivocating.


I suppose so, in the "i want to be abused" kind of sense.

Anyway, back on topic.

Heard yesterday about my friend. I was like 6-12 and so was she, we lived next door to each other. Got on like a house on fire, we were always playing. She had a bunch of kids starting at 16 and she's still going years later. Apparently the reason she was promiscuous at that age was because she was getting ... abuse ... from her father when she was my friend. And it's hard to describe the feeling that i have right now, and my dad feels the same way. Like, if only he'd have known (i would have been too young at the time ofc), he could have so easily stopped it. It would have taken 5 minutes of his time to give the guy the sort of beating he'd never forget and stopped the whole damn thing.

And then it makes me think that there's people out there right now having the same thing done to them, and i'm sat here watching videos, and if i only knew where to go, i could go there right now and stop it happening and turn someone's life around.

I can't watch the video. Seeing any form of abuse - bullying, anything - even in fiction - boils my blood instantly. My fists tighten of their own accord, my hackles raise. I abhore violence, but i'd defend the innocent to the death without hesitation. I can't even imagine how someone could abuse someone else.

>> ^dannym3141:

>> ^Payback:
Personally, I feel that even when the other person "likes it" eg. extreme s/m, it is still abuse.
That is a really, really unfair thing to say. Abuse CAN occur in relationships like that, probably in ways which aren't easy to grasp from an observer, but consensual bdsm is certainly not abuse.
There's a word for people who insults/attacks something because they don't understand it.....


Yeah, agreed, I think there's a pretty clear ethical distinction between the two. Kinda trivializes the real issue of familial/spousal abuse and it's victim's plight to bother about what mutually consenting adults(of sound decision making capacity) find pleasureable and do in private.

I guess it could be very charitably described as abuse if used in the most vague, indescript terms possible. It seemed like you were (unintentionaly?) equivocating.

>> ^Payback:

Personally, I feel that even when the other person "likes it" eg. extreme s/m, it is still abuse.

That is a really, really unfair thing to say. Abuse CAN occur in relationships like that, probably in ways which aren't easy to grasp from an observer, but consensual bdsm is certainly not abuse.

There's a word for people who insults/attacks something because they don't understand it.....

>> ^entr0py:

While this is tragic, he probably just mistook her for a zombie.


That's really horrible, but a good example of how I can just barely appreciate humor in the face of awfulness.

Shut your face and get back in the dungeon. *slaps*
>> ^Payback:

>> ^gwiz665:
It takes a certain kind of asshole to beat up someone he loves. /spits

Personally, I feel that even when the other person "likes it" eg. extreme s/m, it is still abuse.