>> ^thinker247:
I'm a proponent of Intelligent Design. After all, how do you explain the complexity of our systems without some sort of divine intervention, namely the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
HEATHENS! BE TOUCHED BY HIS NOODLY APPENDAGES AND YE SHALL KNOW HIS WORKS, FOR THEY ARE DIVINE AND COVERED IN PASTA SAUCE!


Can I get a RAMEN?!!

I'm a proponent of Intelligent Design. After all, how do you explain the complexity of our systems without some sort of divine intervention, namely the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

HEATHENS! BE TOUCHED BY HIS NOODLY APPENDAGES AND YE SHALL KNOW HIS WORKS, FOR THEY ARE DIVINE AND COVERED IN PASTA SAUCE!

Sniper. Dude. You don't think that decades of neurological research qualify scientists to predict brain development? And when I say predict, I mean that they are pretty gosh darn sure about this. They aren't just guessing based on probablility that Dani will never be "normal". They KNOW that the brain develops language and social skills in certain parts by a certain time. People who miss the window of opportunity can't get it back. Excluding divine intervention, it's not a matter for debate. Her brain just isn't capable of traveling backward in time and developing all over again.

It's nothing personal.

>> ^Sniper007:
I find it amazing that anyone at all (including neurological experts) can assume that they have such a complete understanding of the human mind that they'd feel confident enough to predict in advance the limit to which an individual can perform. Didn't the experts say she'd never walk? Didn't they say she'd never be able to interact or focus like a normal person? Haven't the experts ALREADY been proven WRONG, even when examining this specific case alone? Why would anyone ever believe that she can't be normal?
I think the error is somewhere between 'Ability' and 'Probability'. She has the physical capacity to do everything any other woman can do. No doubt. Ability is not the issue. The issue is Probability. She Probably WON'T attain those levels of competence based on the choices of those around her (first), and her own choices (second). The preceding statement is only reasonable based on our experiences with similar past cases. Even in those cases however, it must be acknowledged that some individuals may have had an ability to advance that was not fulfilled due to a lack of desire to advance.
Never underestimate the power of the human mind and will.

Related sift: Jesus sightings in a public toilet.

Although my personal favorite Jesus sighting is here: http://www.divine-interventions.com/baby.php

I own two that I regularly clean and switch out. That way the power of our lord is truly inside of me

In reply to this comment by EDD:
http://www.divine-interventions.com/baby.php

I believe you might find the product advertised to your liking.

http://www.divine-interventions.com/baby.php

I believe you might find the product advertised to your liking.

Bwahaha. What do you give the gal who has everything? A jesus butt plug! Brilliant.

In reply to this comment by EDD:
http://www.divine-interventions.com/baby.php

I think you might find the product advertised to your liking.

http://www.divine-interventions.com/baby.php

I think you might find the product advertised to your liking.

It's not letting me upvote this.... divine intervention?

^

a lot of the time they would let people go if they went for very long without dying in a hanging, claiming divine intervention. why they didn't just shoot the hanging body will forever be a mystery.

>> ^EDD:
Surprising and sad. It's really short though, I wonder what the general context was and also what he followed that up with..?
Anyway, I hope the day arrives soon, well within my lifetime, when scientific method and resultant fact aren't feared and disputed as something contradicting the idea of a creator. It's just plain wrong to compare the two, because science doesn't claim to have an answer to this particular question (yet) as it's based on the set of laws that just didn't exist before the beginning of time (the Big Bang). The laws and rules of our existence are indisputably set and they're here whether we like them or not; by defying them (imagining the occasional 'miracles' and expecting divine interventions) and defying the need to study and understand these laws, one is hindering our progress as a civilization - usually because one is accustomed to and wants to maintain the current status quo (i.e. they're well off) and is afraid (or purposefully intimidated) of change.
All the ancient nonsense that was made up to "explain" the unknown should and probably will eventually be discarded just like the heliocentric model was accepted by (the majority of) the sane world, and all that would remain afterwards would be folks that have been made believe via indoctrination. And when we'll finally be rid of this final despicable abusive parenting malpractice (and I do believe there will come such a day), we will have freed ourselves from one of the most oppressive shackles in our species' history.
Now there's a day full of tears of joy I am so looking forward to!


Except science doesn't deal with the main element of the question people pose with life. Science doesn't deal with truth, only observed trends which can't even be called facts as far as I would define a fact. A fact is a certainty, and I define certainty as perfect knowledge that is total security from error. This can never be achived with sceince as it deals with percived phenomina and not noumenon. Kant was the one who ended up saying that the limmits of reason open up the doorway to faith.

I am not an saying science is useless or anything, it got us to the moon, and other neato things. But it doesn't ever have a claim to truth, or as you would put it facts.

Moreover, the more we learn about the the "laws" that govern all that is around us, we find that it has no certainty in the quantum relm at all. Things do not play by any set of rules, and indeed, it seems random in nature. Thus overuling any model that could say with true certainty that it had discovered the facts of the univerce. The fact is, that science doesn't deal with facts and has no method of proving things true, only methods of proving them false.

Might I remind you that sciece doesn't even have a proper explanation for gravity or even more simple, mass and how it is created. Moreover, those are things that are the basis for all other things built on top of them and yet they go unanswered. Science is the new abuse in it scope of what it says it has answers to and the relm of life that it holds to have answers for.

once again I'm all for science, being a scientist myself (as my frequent mispellings should indicate ), but it will never replace the faith element by Kants own admissions. (I view Kant as the father of empirical thinking, but there are others like hegal and hidigar that point out some of the main problems with the limmits of reason)

edit, or ya, and on topic for this movie, his views on evolution shouldn't have anything to do with his revolutionary ideas on getting back to the small government topology. Completely irrelvant just as what his faith is or isn't. Unless now anyone accociated with faith is now automatically a moron; in which I find to be an very bigoted way of thinking and not conforming to the so called tolorance that I keep hearing people claim should be the order of the day.

Surprising and sad. It's really short though, I wonder what the general context was and also what he followed that up with..?

Anyway, I hope the day arrives soon, well within my lifetime, when scientific method and resultant fact aren't feared and disputed as something contradicting the idea of a creator. It's just plain wrong to compare the two, because science doesn't claim to have an answer to this particular question (yet) as it's based on the set of laws that just didn't exist before the beginning of time (the Big Bang). The laws and rules of our existence are indisputably set and they're here whether we like them or not; by defying them (imagining the occasional 'miracles' and expecting divine interventions) and defying the need to study and understand these laws, one is hindering our progress as a civilization - usually because one is accustomed to and wants to maintain the current status quo (i.e. they're well off) and is afraid (or purposefully intimidated) of change.

All the ancient nonsense that was made up to "explain" the unknown should and probably will eventually be discarded just like the heliocentric model was accepted by (the majority of) the sane world, and all that would remain afterwards would be folks that have been made believe via indoctrination. And when we'll finally be rid of this final despicable abusive parenting malpractice (and I do believe there will come such a day), we will have freed ourselves from one of the most oppressive shackles in our species' history.
Now there's a day full of tears of joy I am so looking forward to!

For those of you not Fearing of the living God , and think we who are , are insane, just consider the lessons of history to see if there is really divine intervention in matters of SIN gone wild, take the Roman city Pompeii for just one example, read the following facts.
Walking into homes and shops in Pompeii is to marvel at the fully-intact buildings. You expect to meet the toga-clad owner asking where you are from.

When excavation started in earnest in 1860, scientists were shocked at the level of preservation -- and perversion.

Walls in the town are often covered in sexually-explicit graffiti. If you know Latin, visitors can read who was doing what to whom almost 2000 years ago.

The brothels of Pompeii are open to tourists -- although no longer carrying on business. The erotic frescoes found inside one brothel would make a sailor blush. The two-storey house, called Lupanare, is the top draw in the town. The services offered and a price list was displayed in the street.

The "House of the Vettii" is a luxurious and well-preserved private home not far from the brothel. Surrounding two courtyards, Vettii is rich in decoration and colour. The house looks remarkably like the set of a Hollywood film about Rome.

Finally, head to the town’s forum. In Roman times, it was the centre of public and political life of any Roman city. The large square is enclosed by colonnades and has a spectacular view of Mount Vesuvius.

After a full day of walking the site, jumping back on the train to Naples will be welcomed. Next morning, consider a visit to the National Museum in Naples to view some of the artifacts found in Pompeii that needed to be preserved off site. Also consider a trip to the volcano which caused Pompeii's misfortune -- buses leave from the Naples train station for Mount Vesuvius about once an hour. Don’t worry, Vesuvius is safe now…mind you, they probably thought that 2000 years ago too.
DIVINE INTRVENTION OR COINCIDENCE, THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE !

Let me break it down for you, how that can happen without divine intervention:

change in life support -> stress -> adrenaline -> waking up for a bit

She still died, just not right away.

Not breathing for a minute != death. When someone is comatose they use less than half as much oxygen as someone who is awake, so they can survive longer without breathing. Death is the destruction of enough of the person's bodily apparatus that they can never regain consciousness, not just a failure to breathe or pump blood for a minute or two. Technological means can save people who aren't breathing or pumping blood, and there's a whole continuum of brain damage. So there's no fine line between life and death - dying is a gradual process in most cases (unless you get dropped directly into an incinerator)

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/15/1089694478141.html?from=storylhs

I believe I clarified that Einstein's belief was of a deity, not of a structured religion. The same goes for Greene. I made no claim as to the validity of string theory, which I hold as highly suspect. It requires as much faith as any religion.

I realized the mistake on Buddhism, but was too lazy to go back and strike it out. But, good of you to refute it, as it needed refuting.

To describe faith as a vulnerability is sad in my opinion. I have faith in a great many things. I have faith in the innate goodness of man, despite so much evidence to the contrary. And why are we so moved by acts of kindness, generosity, and sacrifice? It is rather peculiar to our species, although most, I guess, would argue it evolved to further the species. Intelligence provides us that luxury. Molecules communicating complex abstract thought to other molecules until the molecules have enough collective knowledge to send some molecules to the moon. It is miraculous, regardless of your personal belief system.

Thomas Jefferson, who would have abhorred being called a "Christian" and certainly had no belief in the "supernatural" called Christian philosophy "the greatest ever devised by man." We all know he clipped the actual words, ascribed to Jesus, from the bible, deleted all reference to the supernatural and published his "Jeffersonian Bible." It is possible to separate the philosophy from the "religion" as he did and I think many moderates probably approach that.

Personally, I don't believe in divine intervention and I know that flies in the face of mainstream religion, whatever the brand. I also believe in evolution. But, I still marvel at that first replication. It's divine enough for me.