Woo boy, this is a doozy! The fact of the matter is a video comment section is not the place to have this conversation. There's too much to discuss, too many questions from one another that are best asked soon after they're conceived, etc. I frankly just don't have the time to respond to everything you said. Don't take this as acquiescence; if you'd like to have a Zoom chat some time, I'd be down.

In any event, I'll respond to what I find either the most important or at least most interesting:

Having theories is definitely the best way to go about most of the things you consider fact (for the moment), but the fact of the matter (no pun intended) is that at some point you'll need to use some of those claims as fact/belief in order to take action. And it's just human nature to, if one believes in a claim for long enough, it becomes fact, despite all your suggestions of objectivity. It's easy to say you're a scientist through and through, but if you're really someone who doesn't believe anything and merely theorize things, I think you'd be a sad human being. But that's a claim that I leave up to the scientists.

> Yes, and I eat animals because they're delicious.

You think that's a defensible moral claim? I find that disgraceful. If you truly think your own pleasure is worth sentient beings' lives then... I don't know what to say to you. That strikes me as callous and unempathetic, 2 traits you often assert as shameful. This is my point. You sound pretty obstinate to at least a reasonable claim. To respond with just "they're tasty". You don't sound reasonable to me.

> You may be correct, but eating meat is hardly the worst thing humans are up to.

Aw, come on @newtboy, I thought better of you than to give me a logical fallacy. The fact that you're resorting to logical fallacies wwould indicate to me that either you're confronting some cognitive dissonance, otherwise why would you stoop to such a weak statement?

> I gladly discuss vegetarianism with honest people, but I'm prepared when they start spouting bullshit like " eating any red meat is more harmful than smoking two packs a day of filterless cigarettes" ...

There is a lot of scientific research (not funded by Big ___) that is currently spouting this "bullshit". What happened to your receptive, scientific, theory-based lifestyle? It's true nutrition science is a fucking smog-filled night mare considering how much money is at stake, but I find it telling that a lot of the corporations are using the same ad men from Big Cigarette to stir up constant doubt.

Again, I find it peculiar that you are highly suspicious of big corporations... except when it comes to something that you want to be true.

Again, this is my point. Take a moment, take a few breaths, and look inside. Can you notice that you're acting in the exact same fashion as the people you purport to be obscenely stubborn?

Check out NutritionFacts if you want to see any of the science. Actual science. I would hope that it would give you at least somedoubt and curiosity.

That's a true scientist's homeostatic state: curiosity. Are you curious to investigate the dozens (hundreds?) of papers with a truly non-confirmation-biased mind? How much of a scientist are you?

> I've never met a vegan that wasn't a bold faced liar in support of veganism, so I'm less likely to give them a full chance at convincing me.

This, for me, raises all sorts of red flags. That's quite a sweeping claim.

> Again, that would be long held theories in my case, and it's not hard to change them. Mad cow disease got me to change until I was certain it wasn't in America. No, I'm not recoiling. I'll listen to anyone who's respectful and honest.

So, you're willing to make decisions based on self-interest and not morality? Well, duh. Everyone does that. It doesn't sound like you had a self-reflective moment. It sounds like you merely had a self-interested decision based on the risk to your own health.

And finally, all your talk about Bob -- of course he acts, consistently, like a twat. I just don't like feeding trolls. I don't think there's anyone on Videosift who's on the precipice and would be pushed over into the Alt-right Pit by Bob's ridiculous nonsense.

> Edit: in general I agree that dispassionate fact based replies with references are better at convincing people than derision, there are exceptions, and there are those who are unconvinceable and disinterested in facts that don't support their lies.

Ironically, I think science has disproved this. Facts don't change minds in situations like this. There are lots of articles on this. I didn't have the wherewithal to dig into their citations, but I leave that (non-confirmation-biased) adventure for you. [1]

---

I knew I wouldn't make this short, but I think it's shorter than it could have been.

Lastly, I'm with @BSR; I do appreciate your perseverance. Not everyone has as much as you seem to have! Whenever I see Bob... doing his thing, I can always be assured you'll take most of the words from my mouth. [2]

[1]
Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds | The New Yorker
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds

This Article Won’t Change Your Mind - The Atlantic
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/03/this-article-wont-change-your-mind/519093/

Why People Ignore Facts | Psychology Today
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/words-matter/201810/why-people-ignore-facts

Why Many People Stubbornly Refuse to Change Their Minds | Psychology Today
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/think-well/201812/why-many-people-stubbornly-refuse-change-their-minds

Why Facts Don't Always Change Minds | Hidden Brain : NPR
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/743195213

[2] This comment has not been edited nor checked for spelling and grammatical errors. Haven't you got enough from me?

If the remarks being contradicted are not only smug they're also ridiculous, devoid of fact, racist, and or dangerously stupid (like insisting in May that Coronavirus is a hoax that's not dangerous and is a "nothing burger", and everyone should be back at work), and contradicting them with facts and references and +- 1/4 the disrespect the original remarks contained makes people vote for Trump, that does indicate they were already trumpsters imo.

Edit: It's like Democrats have a high bar to clear, but Republicans have no depth too deep to stoop to.

Trump changes Bob's beliefs daily, every time he changes a position Bob changes his belief to make the new position seem reasonable to him. He is not consistent. No other opinion matters to him.

I don't hold beliefs, I have theories. It's easy to change your theory when given new information, I do all the time. Beliefs don't work that way, so I avoid them as much as possible.

Yes, and I eat animals because they're delicious. I would eat people if they were raised and fed better, but we are polluted beyond recovery imo.

You may be correct, but eating meat is hardly the worst thing humans are up to. Killing for sport seems worse, so do kill "shelters", puppy mills, habitat destruction, ocean acidification, etc....I could go on for pages with that list. I try to eat free range locally farmed on family farms meat, not factory farm meat. I know the difference in quality.

I gladly discuss vegetarianism with honest people, but I'm prepared when they start spouting bullshit like " eating any red meat is more harmful than smoking two packs a day of filterless cigarettes" (yes, someone insisted that was true because they didn't care it wasn't, it helped scare people, I contradicted him every time he lied.) The difference is, I could agree with some of their points that weren't gross exaggeration, I agreed that excessive meat eating is horrible for people, I agree that most meat is produced under horrific conditions, I would not agree that ALL meat is unhealthy in any amount and ALL meat is tortured it's entire lifetime because I know from personal experience that's just not true. We raised cattle, free range cattle, in the 70's. They were happy cows that had an enjoyable life roaming our ranch until the day they went to market, a life they wouldn't have if people didn't eat meat.

I've never met a vegan that wasn't a bold faced liar in support of veganism, so I'm less likely to give them a full chance at convincing me. The fact checking part of my brain goes on high alert when talking with them about health or other issues involved in meat production, with excellent reason.

Again, that would be long held theories in my case, and it's not hard to change them. Mad cow disease got me to change until I was certain it wasn't in America. No, I'm not recoiling. I'll listen to anyone who's respectful and honest.

Here's the thing, Bob consistently trolls in a condescending, self congratulatory, and bat shit crazy way. Turnabout is fair play.
As the only person willing to reply to him for long stretches, I know him. I've had many private conversations with him where he's far more reasonable, honest, willing to admit mistakes, etc. (Something I gave up when he applauded Trump lying under oath because "only a dummy tells the truth under oath if the truth might harm them, Trump winning!") When someone is so anti truth and snide, they deserve some snidely delivered truth in return. Bob has proven he's undeserving of the civility you want him to receive, it's never returned.

Bob does not take anything in from any source not pre approved by Trump. I've tried for a decade, and now know he only comes here to troll the libtards. It doesn't matter if you show him video proof and expert opinions, he'll ignore them and regurgitate more nonsense claiming the opposite of reality. He's not trying to change minds, in case you're confused. He's hoping to trick people who for whatever reason refuse to investigate his factless hyper biased claims and amplify the madness. That he comes here to do that, a site he regularly calls a pure liberal site (it's not) is proof enough to convict him of just trolling.

Trolls deserve derision.

I spent years ignoring his little jabs, insults, derisions, and whinging and trying hard to dispassionately contradict his false claims with pure facts and references, it was no different then.
While privately he would admit he's wrong, he would then publicly repeat the claims he had just admitted were bullshit. When he started supporting perjury from the highest position on earth down as long as they're Republican but still calls for life in prison for democrats that he thinks lied even not under oath, he lost any right to civil replies imo. He bought it when Republican representatives said publicly in interviews that they have no obligation to be truthful with the American people, and he applauds it and repeats their lies with glee.

Edit: in general I agree that dispassionate fact based replies with references are better at convincing people than derision, there are exceptions, and there are those who are unconvinceable and disinterested in facts that don't support their lies. How long are you capable of rebutting them with just fact and references when they are smug, snide, insulting, dangerous, and seriously delusional if not just purely dishonest?

Rebuttal?

Aaaaahahahaha-ha-ha-aaaaaahahahahaha!
That's a good one, Bob. We hate fake news, so we want the fake news president who's told more lies in his official capacity in 3.6 years than all presidents combined.
Another red tsunami just like 2018? I'll be on the beach waiting.

Come on Bobby, even you are better than that twaddle.

Edit:
32.9% drop in GDP is a great job to you, but Obama's constant positive and higher than Trump's numbers were proof he's incompetent.
180000 dead Americans and rising faster all the time with no end in sight is a great job to you, but two dead by Ebola (a more deadly and more infectious disease btw) with zero infections in America is a horrific failure Obama should have quit over.
A conservatively estimated 30000000 jobs lost, 1/2 permanently (some estimates say over 50000000) is a great job to you.
Failed trade talks and wars that have cost us hundreds of BILLIONS in losses is a great job to you, and Obama's successful trade deals and no trade wars made him a failure.
Untold trillions wasted thanks to a disastrous pandemic response, much stolen thanks to zero oversight is a great job, but the federal loans Obama offered to halt the Republican recession were socialism because he took collateral for the money and didn't just hand it out for nothing.
🤦‍♂️

Odd how America does so much better when you say we are failing, and infinitely worse when you say we are doing a great job....almost like you're rooting for our failure....comrade.

Just absolutely wrong on every point except the post office....but consider instead of giving them the funding needed to address these problems, Trump has withheld funding for even normal operation and his appointees have already removed 10% of it's capacity, when they need to be expanding it to hold a fair and open election according to Whitehouse and CDC guidelines.
What happens when it takes 4 weeks to deliver ballots because of the intentional slowdowns and many aren't delivered before election day? Tens of millions are disenfranchised directly because of Trump's actions. A vote blocked is a vote STOLEN, so you are standing with a plan that cheats tens of millions out of their vote unequivocally in a stated plan to avoid hundreds of assumed fraudulent votes from being attempted (but likely caught so not cast).

Trump should want to fund it because holding a fair election is his duty, but he's never fulfilled a duty in his life.

Um...Covid absolutely 100% is a legitimate reason for vote by mail according to health agencies that determine such things (CDC, HHS) ..as if any reason is needed, it's the norm in many states.
Vote by mail is not an excuse for covid, that actually is BS....but I think you meant to be contradicting the former. It's a pure lie that it's more fraudulent than in person voting, another bold faced lie Trump told you.

You can't vote outside. Social distancing while voting is going to take the lines that were 5-6 hours long in places and make them twice that long. Thousands of polling places can't be staffed because most pollsters are elderly retired people, in the most effected group and totally not safe to work, (especially since it's a given that dozens of moronic denier Trumpsters are going to show up at every open polling place unmasked insisting it's their right to vote while spreading disease and forcing their way inside), so many are being closed. How do you think in person voting could possibly work given those facts?

If your ilk would mask up, we could do that, but you all have extended and exacerbated the pandemic so badly, and in their brainless worship of Trump still claim it's ALL a hoax, never even existed, and still won't wear masks because they block oxygen and suffocate people. Because of Trump's horrific leadership, in person voting is a no go for most without risking their, and other people's lives.

Your choice for president is failing at even holding an election...not surprising, he's failed at literally every job a president has, and our nation has suffered greatly, lost international status, tens of trillions, trade, respect, jobs, and over 160000 lives directly because of Trump's leadership....and every problem I listed is getting worse daily as he floundered.

What has he done successfully in your mind besides the tax cut he gave himself, doubling the deficit? Not the economy, not employment, not safety, not health, not trade, not deals, not strengthening ties with allies....so what?

It's not CNN, it's directly from Trump himself. Trump's tweets are fake news?! Wow, that's progress.

He's going to try to shit on the constitution, again. He has zero respect for it, guaranteed he's never once read it through. He's not tossing it out completely....yet.

Schools are safe?! Students and teachers in them aren't. It's insanity to claim they even might be.
Kids aren't immune, kids under 10 still get sick from covid they just rarely die but many are permanently disabled, and they bring it home to mom, dad, older sister, grandma, etc. Kids over 10 are the same as the rest of us Covid wise. Classrooms are Petri dishes, it would be hard to design a place more likely to spread diseases, dozens of kids in close proximity with no ability to social distance, no hygiene, eating together hip to hip, basically being irresponsible children with little supervision. Note, schools aren't safe enough for Trump to send his child back.

Trump's team can't tell the difference between peaceful protests and rioters, that's why time and time again they're filmed attacking peaceful protests, beating and macing seated calm protesters, using tear gass on peaceful protests including shooting canisters at people's faces from point blank range, trapping crowds in enclosed areas with one exit, blocking that exit and attacking en mass, intentionally targeting media using weapons, rubber bullets, pepper spray and capsaicin bullets, driving vehicles into crowds with intent to harm peaceful protesters, beating and mace bukakke-ing peaceful and calm veterans who just stand and take it without even defending themselves, cracking elderly skulls open not rendering aid and claiming the victim was faking, etc. Trump has tried to label BLM a terrorist organization, and directed his shock troops to treat them as such. Repeatedly they are on camera trying to spark violence by attacking peaceful protesters, and have been filmed supervising white people vandalizing in the name of BLM, even directing the vandalism.

Yes, fake news like OAN, Glen Beck, and Fox can't tell the difference and hope you can't either, that's why they fake photos, adding in armed antifa, using old out of state burning riot photos to pretend Portland is on fire, never mentioning that those caught starting fires, shooting cops, driving into crowds, shooting into crowds, etc have been far right wing boogaloo boys, not protesters. Never mentioning the protests are limited to about a 4 block area of Portland, not the entire city. They pretend that when peaceful crowds are shot at and gassed and a few toss back empty water bottles as they retreat, the crowds instigated it and forced "police" (not really police) to use excessive force (ignoring the fact that the agents shot first) by being violent....but oddly have no video of violent protesters to corroborate their unbelievable stories in dozens of cases. In the list of violent acts that drove the unwanted deployment of federal thugs, 9/10 were graffiti. Fake news can't seem to tell graffiti from firebombing.

Where were they when crowds of armed thugs were taking over state capitals and calling for the mob execution of governors and officials over quarantining a few weeks back? What was different there? Hmmmm...

The surfaces--and the bathrooms in particular---totally true. The air? Can be an issue (there are studies)--but the filtration systems themselves are excellent. HEPA 99.7%. There are seating tricks; sit either first row economy ("Economy Plus") or last row of first class. Select the window seat and try to put your companion next to you or---fly an airline with empty seat policies (e.g. JetBlue). Don't rush to get on (although they are mostly now loading back to front anyway)--get on as reasonable late as you can--that way, all those people aren't walking by you exhaling on you.

The reason for the first row economy or last row first is: you don't want people walking by you all flight on the way to the bathrooms; you want to be the person walking by THEM (selfish but...); and the same with the window seating and the last-reasonable minute boarding.

Also, I carry a two zip locks on at the top of my carry on bag; one has three disposable gloves, Clorox or equivalent wipes, and Purell or equiv. etc. Move into seat out of aisle, then with gloves on, wipe down the latch to the overhead (you're going to touch it twice) and then every surface from the aisle to window that you touch---armrests, seat back display, seat back display surface, bulkhead, window shade, tray table locks, tray table both surfaces and edges, buckle, tang, seat controls, audio controls---no point to seat fabric--then roll the glove inside out with the wipes inside and put into the empty ZIploc as a trash bag. Usually two wipes does the job. Purell hands and settle in.

Been doing this since before the pandemic because I totally agree with you.

Airplane bathrooms are all about not touching surfaces with clean hands after you've cleaned them...they are staggeringly filthy. Infectious disease experts have been known to gag in horror at what gets swabbed from the sink handles, toilet flush, and door lock/handle lol. Paper towel is your friend--as our your forearms and elbows.

It's not an overreaction if she's contagious, and there's no way to know. Intentionally spreading disease is a crime, an assault. Doing it through intentional negligence is hardly mitigation.
That said, they would certainly kick me off if I did that...Edit:...probably permanently.....and rightly so. I won't fly until Covid is no longer an issue.

This year I went on Vacation, was abandoned overnight in SFO thanks to United being horrible at scheduling and keeping schedules, and my wife and I both got a sickness just like Covid, this was early February. This was pre-masks. If we were less healthy, it could easily have put us in the hospital or morgue. I fully agree, airports and planes are almost designed to spread diseases, which makes draconian enforcement of health rules mandatory when deadly airborne diseases are common, imo.

I fully agree, I'm for identifying them and creating a national master list of people to refuse treatment to. Facial recognition is commonplace today, it might as well be used for public good. Beyond the zombie theory, if doctors and nurses are in a huge conspiracy to fake a worldwide pandemic, why would people thinking that go to the same doctors for help with the fake virus? I bet mask wearing would near 100% under those circumstances, where deniers are denied treatment and forced to take personal responsibility for their actions. I've never heard of any virus denier refusing treatment, it's certainly not the norm.

The benefits are mostly in reverse. You wear a mask because it better protects others from you - you should always assume you're infected, if you're truly being safe.

If you can get a medical-grade mask, then it can have additional benefits, but that's not really the point here. Everyone can and should wear a mask, and then everyone has an improved chance of preventing the spread.

It's not a psychological thing. Every time I go to the store and see someone without a mask, they are a greater risk to me and my health. I don't know if they are infected, and quite possibly, neither do they. That's the problem with this disease, the incubation and spread can be done entirely without awareness of infection. Blind assumptions are absolutely awful.

You can catch this disease today, and spread it without knowing you're infected, completely without symptoms. That's why we quarantine, contact trace, and above all, always assume you're infected and therefore wear a mask to protect others.

Now as for whether a simple bandana mask is worth it or not, hell -- we can talk, but I'm going to push everyone to do something rather than nothing. If I could get a medical grade protections I'd do it, but the point is when you have to have a worldwide effort, if this helps 20-50% more than nothing, I'll take it. Everyone should. To the point of this video -- there's no reason not to, the science has spoken loud and clear on these points.

[author flagged as a spammer - redacted]

When I bike around town and some asshole almost hits me with his car, I oftentimes catch up to them at a red light. I usually knock on their window and ask them to be more careful because they almost fucking killed me. Politely. But usually a little bit of adrenaline behind my voice because, you know, he almost killed me.

Sometimes they tell me to fuck off. But 9 times out of 10 they say they didn't even see me and that they're sorry. And honestly, even though they almost killed me, sorry makes a lot of the hate go away.

Can one of these pigfuckers please, for the love of fucking god, just say, "I was wrong. I'm sorry that I underestimated the breadth and deadliness of this disease. Please listen to other sources of information. I'm obviously misinformed."

But not one yet. Not a single one has admitted to their inaccuracy. Not even good ol' @bobknight33.

So, did you not watch it, or are you just incapable of learning, because the answer to that question was thoroughly explained.

They should be obligated to pay sick leave so sick people don't have make the choice to go to work sick or become homeless. That costs insanely less than an epidemic does, and kills no one.

The rest of the industrialized world is capable of it, and they had near full compliance with stay at home orders. In America, not so, which is part of why we are now the epicenter of the pandemic and will remain so for the foreseeable future, and will likely have the most deaths of any nation by the disease Trump said isn't a problem worth addressing and it would just miraculously disappear by April because he's done such a good job. Instead, due to his complete lack of preparation even though he had >3 months to prepare, we are on course to have our casualty number top 1 million....all blood on Trump's hands. His administration could have acted in December and avoided any infections in America. They didn't.

Since so many of the (now gone) jobs created in the last 3 years were minimum wage jobs, how do you think people barely living paycheck to paycheck are going to put away a dime? They couldn't pay all their bills when they were being paid.

CORONAVIRUS

Digestive Symptoms (diarrhea) Are Indicative of COVID-19 Disease, and often present themselves earlier than respiratory symptoms.

A new study published in The American Journal of Gastroenterology on March 18, 2020, found most patients with COVID-19 disease present with typical respiratory symptoms and that many (~48%) patients experienced digestive symptoms as their chief complaint.

“Clinicians must bear in mind that digestive symptoms, such as diarrhea, maybe a presenting feature of COVID-19, and that the index of suspicion may need to be raised earlier in these cases, rather than waiting for respiratory symptoms to emerge,” write the authors.

"Moreover, these patients have a longer time from onset to admission and their prognosis is worse than patients without digestive symptoms."
https://journals.lww.com/ajg/Documents/COVID_Digestive_Symptoms_AJG_Preproof.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1lPvV0W4ZaFahffzfd3DsXM1zbGZSlAhQo9JfrMBTl5evD43cpSklkdEo

Your video, Infectious Disease Expert Explains the Severity of COVID-19, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

Yeah, schizophrenia is a terrifying disease.