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Cover the entire border with more of these cameras combined with drones then hire more border patrol agents or use the national guard. Streamline processing of detainees and improve handling facilities. Would work far better than a wall at a fraction of the cost.

Let's call them what they are.

Concentration camps.

The first stages of Ethnic Cleansing.

I'd like to point to the following article via Slate.com

"As one of the few journalists permitted to tour the government’s new internment camp, about 40 miles from the southern border, the New York Times correspondent tried to be scrupulously fair. Forcing civilians to live behind barbed wire and armed guards was surely inhumane, and there was little shelter from the blazing summer heat. But on the other hand, the barracks were “clean as a whistle.” Detainees lazed in the grass, played chess, and swam in a makeshift pool. There were even workshops for arts and crafts, where good work could earn an “extra allotment of bread.” True, there had been some clashes in the camp’s first days—and officials, the reporter noted, had not allowed him to visit the disciplinary cells. But all in all, the correspondent noted in his July 1933 article, life at Dachau, the first concentration camp in Nazi Germany, had “settled into the organized routine of any penal institution.” "

Yes... he did it. If there were any doubts left, this should remove them. Trump officially put the United States on the same path as Nazi Germany.

What are you going to do about it?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

-Niemöller

No, that's human patience. Chances are that the detainee is an alcoholic, which is a medical condition, not a moral failing.

That these Norwegian cops didn't beat him indicates a common sense approach to the situation. That American cops almost certainly would have battered this defenseless man is an indicator of a toxic culture that seems to be worsening.

Yes, that's where we differ, because she sure didn't seem to be trying to leave to me, just had an inability to stand still under stress, like many 15 year olds. (And as I've said, it's the macing a handcuffed, secured girl that's out of line imo, the manhandling was just more than needed and was certain to escalate problems rather than solve them, so not smart but on the low end of the scale of acceptability, the macing was a pure assault in my eyes, for no good reason beyond sadism. It was not the right way to get her in the car.)

Keep in mind, she gets on her bike and rides (slowly) with ZERO complaint from the officer she's right in front of, he LET her do it, then got pissed off that she did it. WTF?!
Again, this could have been solved with a simple command to sit down, a command they did not give. Also, detained is not under arrest. You are under zero obligation to submit to detention. If they thought she was leaving the scene, they should have arrested her. Instead, they said repeatedly that they were detaining her for 'cooperation of investigation' (not a crime) and a medical release (something they probably need for their own liability purposes, but not something they can arrest a person for as far as I know).

Yes, the little girl was in the wrong...did my saying exactly that confuse you?

Yes, I absolutely think that if an officer pepper sprayed another officer's child for something the first officer screwed up (like failing to put her all the way in the car) the parent would go ballistic and sue...no matter how their child had acted. Rude behavior is not a threat, the only legitimate reason to use force. I don't think they would see it like you do if it was their child.
Yes, they would also probably reprimand the child too, but bad manners do not excuse assault with a weapon on a handcuffed detainee.

There was no reason to use mace, the proper response is to pull her into the car from the other side.

Your analogy only works if the wolf hounds go after the sheep when there's not a wolf in sight.

Hours? Really? Try an extra 10 seconds to avoid 15 minutes of battle and days of court. "Sit down" doesn't take even that. If they don't have the patience to verbalize the instructions they want followed, they should quit. Deescalation is their job, and they absolutely failed, as they often do.

Remember, they repeatedly say they're only detaining her because she may need medical treatment, then they treat her in a way that ensures she needs medical treatment. If they were really trying to help her, they failed so utterly miserably that they all should quit today...but we know that was bullshit lies, right?

I'm guessing you've never had a gun to your head and a knee on your neck face down in a gutter because an officer made a mistake reading your licence plate and had zero patience for the car thief he was taking down, followed by threats of retaliation if you report them. You might give them less cooperation and leeway if you had.

As I see it, there were only prosecutions from Abu Ghraib because the abuse became public knowledge.

While rape and murder have never been proven to be executive orders (although it's pretty clear that murder in the field has been ordered by many presidents, including the current one, but is called something different), they were certainly standard procedure. That's why the offenders felt safe publicly posting pictures of the crimes. Had they been a tiny bit smarter about it, there almost certainly would have never been a prosecution, because that would make the crimes public and keeping the abuse secret was far more important than addressing the crimes.
Most of what we saw from Abu Ghraib was clearly, and admittedly sanctioned by the president and his cabinet. as you said, there was.."sleep deprivation, hooding prisoners, playing loud music, removing all detainees' clothing, forcing them to stand in so-called "stress positions", and the use of dogs" and also waterboarding and other acts designed to inflict the feeling of being murdered. From there to actual 'rape and murder' is just a tiny step over that invisible line that the executive branch had taken them right up to and complained about being stymied by.
They may not have been directly directed to rape and murder, but they were presented with people they were told to treat as subhuman and directed to do more to get the information that 'legal' torture had not delivered. I'm not sure what else they might have done in that situation.

Citation needed by something more than "wikipedia".

The details matter in something like this. The orders from the top included the following abuses: "sleep deprivation, hooding prisoners, playing loud music, removing all detainees' clothing, forcing them to stand in so-called "stress positions", and the use of dogs"

Sexual assault, rape and murder didn't make the list somehow.

There are plenty of assholes and pricks. Most you sifters would lump me in with that demographic. But Assholes and pricks are not plotting and killing innocent people around the world.

Also just to keep up up to date the day after the Paris bombing/killings Our President Obama released 5 more Gitmo detainees.
What a dickhead president. Ass Clown in Cheif

For Clarity: "Reasonable suspicion is defined by a set of factual circumstances that would lead a reasonable police officer to believe criminal activity is occurring. This is different from the probable cause (what a reasonable person would believe) required for an arrest, search, and seizure. If the stop and frisk gives rise to probable cause to believe the detainee has committed a crime, then the police officer should have the power to make a formal arrest and conduct a search of the person." If a citizen reports a suspicious person on the street to a police officer, that officer has every right to stop and determine that the individual is not in fact in the process of a criminal activity. The guy in this video was frankly wrong.

I would argue that even one is too many.

There are currently 166 remaining detainees at Guantanamo, although 6 of those do face charges you could count it as 160 detained without pending charges.

Membership of Falun Gong is illegal in China, just like being a member of Hamas is illegal in the U.S., and as far as I know it is membership of the organisation (or, more specifically, activism) that is likely to get you sent to a re-education through labour camp.

Both China and the U.S. have lists of prohibited organisations, and in both cases cite public order as the rationale.

In any case, is it really worse to discriminate on the basis of beliefs than to discriminate on the basis of skin colour, bank balance, proficiency in English, intelligence, or any of the other things typically discriminated against?

p.s. Just to make clear, I'm not endorsing either type of discrimination.

What the fuck is it with these republicans - Bush & Cheney get a swift pass on war-crimes like waterboarding untrialled detainees. & Clinton is impeached for a blowjob - And Obama's really a secret Muslim. WTF REPUBLICANS.

>> ^bobknight33:

Bush was correct.


Of course you aren't referring to the video, but that time he said, "My Pet Goat is the best book I've ever read."

>> ^thumpa28:

Oh wow i see what you did there, its like prison minus the torturing to death bit! Wait, i got one too!
I wonder if the people facing the death penalty in Texas can blink 'electric chair'1!!!
Ohohoh i love Videosift for its deep socio political comment and talking cats.
>> ^Payback:
>> ^honkeytonk73:
What I got from his Morse code message was 'Enhanced Interrogation Techniques in use', not 'torture'.

Ya... I wonder what the Gitmo detainees call their little home-away-from-home.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58&sns=em

Oh wow i see what you did there, its like prison minus the torturing to death bit! Wait, i got one too!

I wonder if the people facing the death penalty in Texas can blink 'electric chair'1!!!

Ohohoh i love Videosift for its deep socio political comment and talking cats.

>> ^Payback:

>> ^honkeytonk73:
What I got from his Morse code message was 'Enhanced Interrogation Techniques in use', not 'torture'.

Ya... I wonder what the Gitmo detainees call their little home-away-from-home.