>> ^ForgedReality:

>> ^Grimm:
Or maybe just for people who like to have a good time and aren't dead inside yet.>> ^ForgedReality:
Seems like something they do often for tourists...


Or maybe you shouldn't have taken it that way. I just meant it seems like something they rehearse and do often, not just some spur of the moment thing like the title of this video makes it seem. I just said tourists because they would be less likely to recognize the routine.


Also.. that mentality doesn't work so well when it's between innings at the Tampa Bay Rays. That's generally broadcast nationally. And there'd likely be more of these videos if that were the case.

>> ^Grimm:

Or maybe just for people who like to have a good time and aren't dead inside yet.>> ^ForgedReality:
Seems like something they do often for tourists...



Or maybe you shouldn't have taken it that way. I just meant it seems like something they rehearse and do often, not just some spur of the moment thing like the title of this video makes it seem. I just said tourists because they would be less likely to recognize the routine.

oh, so they're mormons.>> ^Grimm:

Or maybe just for people who like to have a good time and aren't dead inside yet.>> ^ForgedReality:
Seems like something they do often for tourists...

Or maybe just for people who like to have a good time and aren't dead inside yet.>> ^ForgedReality:

Seems like something they do often for tourists...

That was lovely. Thank you.

In reply to this comment by BicycleRepairMan:
>> ^Yogi:

That's a really sweet story and I was totally with this "It Gets Better" campaign that they were pushing. But I still stick by my personal belief that we should make it better, you don't get things better in your society by waiting. You make it better, how about something like that for a pro gay rights campaign?


I think the "It Gets Better" campaign was, and certainly has become, more than just a message to talk young gay or alienated people out of committing suicide (as if that wasnt a worthy cause)

Anyone who has seen even one of these videos or messages from people who have been bullied their entire childhoods and are admitting it and have gotten through it, has either been on the edge of tears or they must be dead inside.

I've never been homophobic or anything like that, but it certainly has moved me in some way to be more sympathetic and aware of the problems that these kids face. Not that I wasn't before, but I'm saying it moves us straights too, thats all.

So what i'm getting at, is that this campaign has, perhaps more than politics or legislation, changed people attitude towards gay/lesbian/transexuality , which, after all, is the most important thing. If you think about the civil rights movement, for example, getting laws etc straight (no pun intended) is one thing,but changing people's mind might be the most important part.

>> ^Yogi:

That's a really sweet story and I was totally with this "It Gets Better" campaign that they were pushing. But I still stick by my personal belief that we should make it better, you don't get things better in your society by waiting. You make it better, how about something like that for a pro gay rights campaign?


I think the "It Gets Better" campaign was, and certainly has become, more than just a message to talk young gay or alienated people out of committing suicide (as if that wasnt a worthy cause)

Anyone who has seen even one of these videos or messages from people who have been bullied their entire childhoods and are admitting it and have gotten through it, has either been on the edge of tears or they must be dead inside.

I've never been homophobic or anything like that, but it certainly has moved me in some way to be more sympathetic and aware of the problems that these kids face. Not that I wasn't before, but I'm saying it moves us straights too, thats all.

So what i'm getting at, is that this campaign has, perhaps more than politics or legislation, changed people attitude towards gay/lesbian/transexuality , which, after all, is the most important thing. If you think about the civil rights movement, for example, getting laws etc straight (no pun intended) is one thing,but changing people's mind might be the most important part.

The Translator is a trap!
If you "know" what she means you'll always end up doing what she wants and your life will be sucked away... along with your soul until your old and dead inside.

Ignoring passive aggressive manipulation is a male defense mechanism!

Yeah, he must know she's already ordered the Husband upgrade pack.>> ^escape421521:

He's dead inside. You can see it in his eyes.

He's dead inside. You can see it in his eyes.

Oh it pretends it's happy, but you can tell from the grimace it defaults to that it's dead inside.

*dead inside.

Posh actor kids just seem a bit dead inside.

So, Pinky, I read those articles and they completely cemented my opinion for me, thank you.

I didn't disagree that pornography is addictive, just that it is psychological and not to be compared with real physically dependent addictions. Just as you said, "the panelists themselves acknowledged, there is no consensus among mental health professionals about the dangers of porn or the use of the term 'pornography addiction.'"

I also love the generalizations in these: "people who use pornography feel dead inside" right... how about: "Pornography does damage because it encourages people to make their home in shallow relationships," I know that one is bogus.

This quote is my favorite: By the time Nick Samuels had reached his mid-20s, it was altering his view of what he wanted from a sexual relationship. ‘I used to watch porn with one of my girlfriends, and I started to want to try things I'd seen in the films.’ Married for 15 years, he admits he has carried the same sexual expectations into the marital bedroom. ‘There's been real friction over this: my wife simply isn't that kind of person. And it's only now, after all these years, that I'm beginning to move on from it. Porn is like alcoholism: it clings to you like a leech.’

If his wife wont do these things with him then that is her problem, not his and definitely not porn's fault. My girlfriend and I love to watch porn together. Part of the fun is trying new things out and it keeps the sex interesting. Sex is an intensely important part of a relationship, and a marriage in which the partners don't agree on matters of sex is a marriage that shouldn't last. This is something that had been known for thousands of years by nearly every civilization... until Christianity started forcing itself into the bedroom.

As for your personal experiences, they are what they are, but a few examples of porn addiction cannot make for a suitable base for a consensus. Consider how many people are users of pornography and compare that with the number of people who have a serious problem and you will no doubt find that there are much more important issues to worry about (including America's obesity - a point which I stand by).

Anyway, I am done with this discussion as neither of us will sway the other. I'll just leave you with one more fact. The only concerted efforts to stop pornography (not including the obviously harmful child pornography), whether in the US or worldwide, have come from religious groups or feminist groups. No one else wants pornography to end.

I chose selections from an article about male porn habit that addresses the subject for your reading pleasure. I have a few problems with the article. It seems to assume that only lonely and hurting people use porn, and that isn't true. Still, it makes some good points:

"How addictive is pornography?

‘I'm frightened of real sex, which is unscripted and unpredictable so I engage in pornography, which is totally under my control. But it brings intense disappointment because it is not what I'm really searching for. It's rather like a hungry person standing outside the window of a restaurant, thinking that they're going to get fed.’ That’s how one man described his porn addiction to Edward Marriott...

...Like many men, I first saw pornography during puberty. At boarding school...long before my first sexual relationship, porn was my sex education....Being away from home, my friends and I longed for love, closeness, acceptance. The women over whom we masturbated - surrogate mothers, if you like - seemed to be offering this but, of course, were never going to provide it. The untruths it taught me on top of this disappointment - that women are always available, that sex is about what a man can do to a woman - I am only now succeeding in unlearning.

...'Just like drugs, pornography provides a quick fix, a masturbatory universe people can get stuck in. This can result in their not being able to involve anyone else.’

...Men, as much as women, hunger for intimacy. For many males, locked into a life in which self-esteem has grown intrinsically entwined with performance, sex assumes a freight of demands and needs...

...It is into this troubled scenario that porn finds easy access. For in pornography, unlike in real life, there is no criticism, real or imagined, of male performance...

...Women in porn are always, in the words of the average internet site, ‘hot and ready’, eager to please...

...Men, say psychologists, also feel threatened by the ‘emotional power’ they perceive women wielding over them...they are at the same time painfully aware that their only salvation from isolation comes in being sexually acceptable to women. This sense of neediness can provoke intense anger that, all too often, finds expression in porn...

...The porn industry, of course, dismisses such talk, yet occasionally comes a glimmer of authenticity. Bill Margold, left, one of the industry's longest-serving film performers, was interviewed in 1991 by psychoanalyst Robert Stoller for his book Porn: Myths For The Twentieth Century. Margold admitted: ‘My whole reason for being in this industry is to satisfy the desire of the men in the world who basically don't care much for women and want to see the men in my industry getting even with the women they couldn't have when they were growing up. So we come on a woman's face or brutalise her sexually: we're getting even for lost dreams.'...

...As well as ‘eroticising male supremacy’, in the words of anti-porn campaigner John Stoltenberg, pornography also attempts to assuage other male fears, in particular that of erection failure. Pornography answers men's fetishistic need for visual proof of phallic potency...

...Pornography, in other words, is a lie. It peddles falsehoods about men, women and relationships. It seduces vulnerable, lonely men with the promise of intimacy, and delivers only a transitory fix. Increasingly, though, men are starting to be open about the effect of pornography. David McLeod, a marketing executive, explains the cycle: ‘I'm drawn to porn when I'm lonely, particularly when I'm single and sexually frustrated. But I can easily get disgusted with myself. After watching a video two or three times, I'll throw it away and vow never to watch another again. But my resolve never lasts very long.’

Like many men, McLeod is torn. Quick to claim that porn has ‘no harmful effects’, he is also happy to acknowledge the contradictory fact that it is ‘deadening’.

Extended exposure to pornography can have a whole raft of effects.
By the time Nick Samuels had reached his mid-20s, it was altering his view of what he wanted from a sexual relationship. ‘I used to watch porn with one of my girlfriends, and I started to want to try things I'd seen in the films.’ Married for 15 years, he admits he has carried the same sexual expectations into the marital bedroom. ‘There's been real friction over this: my wife simply isn't that kind of person. And it's only now, after all these years, that I'm beginning to move on from it. Porn is like alcoholism: it clings to you like a leech.’

...Even when in a loving sexual relationship, men who have used porn say that, all too often, they see their partner through a kind of ‘pornographic filter’. This effect is summed up by US sociologist Harry Brod, in LynneSegal's essay Sweet Sorrows, Painful Pleasures: ‘There have been too many times when I have guiltily resorted to impersonal fantasy because the genuine love I felt for a woman wasn't enough to convert feelings into performance. And in those sorry, secret moments, I have resented deeply my lifelong indoctrination into (pornography).’...

...Running through all pornography use, according to David Morgan, is the desire for control...

...The user of pornography is also psychologically on the run.
Welldon says: ‘people who use pornography feel dead inside, and they are trying to avoid being aware of that pain. There is a sense of liberation, which is temporary: that's why pornography is so repetitive - you have to go back again and again.’...

...For John-Paul Day, an Edinburgh architect, the experience of being a small boy with a dying mother drove him to seek solace in masturbation. He says he has been ‘addicted’ to pornography his entire adult life. He has attended meetings of Sex Addicts Anonymous for 12 years...

...Like drugs and drink, pornography - as Day has realised - is an addictive substance. Porn actor Kelly Cooke says this applies on either side of the camera: ‘It got to the point where I considered having sex the way most people consider getting a hamburger. But when you try to give it up, you realise how addictive it is, both for consumers and performers. It's a class A drug, and it's hell coming off it.’

The cycle of addiction leads one way: towards ever harder material...

Morgan believes ‘all pornography ends up with S&M’.
The myth about porn, as a witness told the 1983 Minneapolis city council public hearings on it, is that ‘it frees the libido and gives men an outlet for sexual expression. This is truly a myth. I have found pornography not only does not liberate men, but on the contrary is a source of bondage. Men masturbate to pornography only to become addicted to the fantasy.'..."

Read the whole article here: http://www.malehealth.co.uk/userpage1.cfm?item_id=2302

Other articles on the sibject of porn "addiction":

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2004/11/65772

http://men.webmd.com/guide/is-pornography-addictive

Is it me ore did she seem dead inside?