Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Let's agree to disagree then - and you might want to have a look at this document that gives a better rebuttal to some of your arguments than I could.

>> ^Skeeve:

1. We have these things called laws. Unless the laws are bad (which can happen) and are changed (which is possible) people are expected to abide by them. These people broke the law, therefore it is the government's responsibility to charge them or change the law.
2. Prior to 1900 a significant portion of the 10% of New York children who died before their 5th birthday died because of contaminated milk. After pasteurization the infant mortality rate dropped by two thirds. So yes, think of the children.
3. Thousands died of a typhoid outbreak in 1913 that was spread partially through the drinking of unpasteurized milk. It's not being hyperbolic to say it could happen again.
It sounds like your mind is made up on this issue, so this is my last post on the subject. I agree that the original bust was stupid and heavy handed, but I also agree with the prosecution of these people.
>> ^dag:
To say that these people are placing the public at risk for drinking raw cow's milk is ludicrous hyperbole and the kind of scare-mongering bullshit that would do the Department of Homeland Security proud.
Perhaps we should go to Level Orange in response to these Lacto-terrorists. Think of the children! Duct tape your windows to prevent raw milk from seeping in!
>> ^Skeeve:
I realize that the average person isn't going to buy their food at this place, but what about the thousands who will come into contact with a person who does?
These people are effectively choosing to become carriers of disease. Not all of them will get sick, and not all of those who do will pass it on, but it is inevitable that eventually one of the "club" members will pass on a staph infection or tuberculosis or worse.
As for it being about corporate hegemony, bullshit; no one is shutting down farmers markets, coop farms, etc. This is about people knowingly flaunting federal laws and getting slapped for it.
>> ^dag:
Yes, but this wasn't being sold at your local supermarket. This was a club of people voluntarily choosing an alternative lifestyle that they (rightfully IMO) believe provides health benefits. You are more likely to get salmonella at your local Olive Garden. This is really about corporate hedgemony, I mean WTF - guns drawn? That isn't good for anyone's health. >> ^Skeeve:
While the raid was heavy-handed, I completely agree with the prosecution of people like this.
We have organizations like the FDA and Canadian Food Inspection Agency for a reason - to minimize the public health risks associated with the food supply including the transmission of animal diseases to humans.
These people may feel they have the right to eat contaminated food but, just like the anti-vaccine crowd, they don't think about the possible transmission of disease to others.
There are perfectly legal ways to grow/produce, acquire and eat whatever food you want, there's no reason to flaunt laws that are there for a reason.

1. We have these things called laws. Unless the laws are bad (which can happen) and are changed (which is possible) people are expected to abide by them. These people broke the law, therefore it is the government's responsibility to charge them or change the law.

2. Prior to 1900 a significant portion of the 10% of New York children who died before their 5th birthday died because of contaminated milk. After pasteurization the infant mortality rate dropped by two thirds. So yes, think of the children.

3. Thousands died of a typhoid outbreak in 1913 that was spread partially through the drinking of unpasteurized milk. It's not being hyperbolic to say it could happen again.

It sounds like your mind is made up on this issue, so this is my last post on the subject. I agree that the original bust was stupid and heavy handed, but I also agree with the prosecution of these people.

>> ^dag:

To say that these people are placing the public at risk for drinking raw cow's milk is ludicrous hyperbole and the kind of scare-mongering bullshit that would do the Department of Homeland Security proud.
Perhaps we should go to Level Orange in response to these Lacto-terrorists. Think of the children! Duct tape your windows to prevent raw milk from seeping in!
>> ^Skeeve:
I realize that the average person isn't going to buy their food at this place, but what about the thousands who will come into contact with a person who does?
These people are effectively choosing to become carriers of disease. Not all of them will get sick, and not all of those who do will pass it on, but it is inevitable that eventually one of the "club" members will pass on a staph infection or tuberculosis or worse.
As for it being about corporate hegemony, bullshit; no one is shutting down farmers markets, coop farms, etc. This is about people knowingly flaunting federal laws and getting slapped for it.
>> ^dag:
Yes, but this wasn't being sold at your local supermarket. This was a club of people voluntarily choosing an alternative lifestyle that they (rightfully IMO) believe provides health benefits. You are more likely to get salmonella at your local Olive Garden. This is really about corporate hedgemony, I mean WTF - guns drawn? That isn't good for anyone's health. >> ^Skeeve:
While the raid was heavy-handed, I completely agree with the prosecution of people like this.
We have organizations like the FDA and Canadian Food Inspection Agency for a reason - to minimize the public health risks associated with the food supply including the transmission of animal diseases to humans.
These people may feel they have the right to eat contaminated food but, just like the anti-vaccine crowd, they don't think about the possible transmission of disease to others.
There are perfectly legal ways to grow/produce, acquire and eat whatever food you want, there's no reason to flaunt laws that are there for a reason.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

To say that these people are placing the public at risk for drinking raw cow's milk is ludicrous hyperbole and the kind of scare-mongering bullshit that would do the Department of Homeland Security proud.

Perhaps we should go to Level Orange in response to these Lacto-terrorists. Think of the children! Duct tape your windows to prevent raw milk from seeping in!

>> ^Skeeve:

I realize that the average person isn't going to buy their food at this place, but what about the thousands who will come into contact with a person who does?
These people are effectively choosing to become carriers of disease. Not all of them will get sick, and not all of those who do will pass it on, but it is inevitable that eventually one of the "club" members will pass on a staph infection or tuberculosis or worse.
As for it being about corporate hegemony, bullshit; no one is shutting down farmers markets, coop farms, etc. This is about people knowingly flaunting federal laws and getting slapped for it.
>> ^dag:
Yes, but this wasn't being sold at your local supermarket. This was a club of people voluntarily choosing an alternative lifestyle that they (rightfully IMO) believe provides health benefits. You are more likely to get salmonella at your local Olive Garden. This is really about corporate hedgemony, I mean WTF - guns drawn? That isn't good for anyone's health. >> ^Skeeve:
While the raid was heavy-handed, I completely agree with the prosecution of people like this.
We have organizations like the FDA and Canadian Food Inspection Agency for a reason - to minimize the public health risks associated with the food supply including the transmission of animal diseases to humans.
These people may feel they have the right to eat contaminated food but, just like the anti-vaccine crowd, they don't think about the possible transmission of disease to others.
There are perfectly legal ways to grow/produce, acquire and eat whatever food you want, there's no reason to flaunt laws that are there for a reason.

I realize that the average person isn't going to buy their food at this place, but what about the thousands who will come into contact with a person who does?

These people are effectively choosing to become carriers of disease. Not all of them will get sick, and not all of those who do will pass it on, but it is inevitable that eventually one of the "club" members will pass on a staph infection or tuberculosis or worse.

As for it being about corporate hegemony, bullshit; no one is shutting down farmers markets, coop farms, etc. This is about people knowingly flaunting federal laws and getting slapped for it.
>> ^dag:

Yes, but this wasn't being sold at your local supermarket. This was a club of people voluntarily choosing an alternative lifestyle that they (rightfully IMO) believe provides health benefits. You are more likely to get salmonella at your local Olive Garden. This is really about corporate hedgemony, I mean WTF - guns drawn? That isn't good for anyone's health. >> ^Skeeve:
While the raid was heavy-handed, I completely agree with the prosecution of people like this.
We have organizations like the FDA and Canadian Food Inspection Agency for a reason - to minimize the public health risks associated with the food supply including the transmission of animal diseases to humans.
These people may feel they have the right to eat contaminated food but, just like the anti-vaccine crowd, they don't think about the possible transmission of disease to others.
There are perfectly legal ways to grow/produce, acquire and eat whatever food you want, there's no reason to flaunt laws that are there for a reason.

Must've been filmed in a chicken coop because all I heard was "cluck, cluck, cluck" the entire video.

I wish them well.

We had some hard core hippies who wanted our Food Coop to go in this direction. We couldn't see it as being capable of actually paying the workers a living wage.

But we are a small town -- maybe there are enough hippie types in Austin to make it work.

I really do hope it makes it.

What's weird is that it fits The Food Coop -- Kombucha pulled from the shelves, Priuses all over the parking lot.

Quinoa. I love quinoa.

they just need to fix Netcode , AI and have a bunch of company run servers running capture the flag modes or well defined game modes.

the most annoying thing with Arma 2 is when u play online often its lagged ( to the point that u shoot sumone over and over and they don't die until 15 seconds later) , and often most the servers are a total mess . so the only time you can have a really solid and reliable game play exsperance is if you coop with a couple of friends on your own server.

ontop of that The coop can really suffer with the AI being compleaty thick and slow ( they are good at general tactical movements and stuff and i'm sure the AI is miles better than most games technicaly) but when it comes down to interacting with them they r so bad it destroys the whole motivation to play and reward you would get from playing well in the game.

other issue with the ai is there whole targting system , instead of laying down fire and runing to cover they generaly just drop to the floor and then on harder dificulty settings they have ahabbit of geting shots perfectly on target , rather than spamming the general area which is what normally happens in real life.

having said all that ill get arma 3 on day 1 as its an amazing peace of software they r bringing out a chopper sim soon

I just am not comfortable trolling/trash talking/whatever you call it. It isn't my nature. I want to explain why I answered @blankfist so rudely.

I sent him the private PM below. He responded with the comment above, hours later. As I promised him, I responded in kind. It was his choice, not mine.

Sorry to inflict this silly battle of wills on the Sift. I am weary of this, as are all of you, I'm sure.

What I sent him and rottenseed (although rotten told me he didn't read it because it was too long. Maybe blank didn't either):

This whole sift talk was triggered by me being silent for 5 years about stuff that really bothered me, and finally having enough. (Well, and it was qualitatively worse a couple of days ago, that triggered it really.)

There is just no way that I am going to stay silent in the face of any trolling on this Sift Talk. I can't. I just can't.

I am getting weary of this, as are you, I suspect.

But I am also very very stubborn. And I have 5 years of silence built up. And there is No Bloody Way I am going to let one of you guys end this Sift Talk with a mean trolly dig at women.

Just so you know.

I once was on the Food Coop board of directors with a New York Jewish Lawyer. That was how he introduced himself to me, before we were elected, and he warned me that he would talk me down. I just looked at him and said, "You don't know me."

We became very good friends, argued for hours on various topics (outside of board meetings), and occasionally would remember our first meeting and laugh and laugh and laugh.

So here's fair warning. I am not going to let one of your troll "jokes" be the last thing on the Sift Talk Post.

New York Jewish Lawyer. I talked him DOWN.

You will not win this. This is my battle, my pent up frustration, my need to NOT be silent, not here and now.

I have already winced over several things on the Sift the past couple of days, the usual stuff, nothing to say, it is what it is.

But this Sift Talk. This is different. This is mine. You guys have the rest of the Sift. But this is mine.

Telling me to shut up is the very last thing you should be saying to me, if you really and truly want me to shut up.

Just so you know.... Fair warning.

blankfist wrote:
Okay, you've had your fun being all uppity. But lunch ain't gonna cook itself, and we're hungry.

In regards to Crosswords wondering if there's more than one way to solve the puzzles in Portal 2, I'd say yes, but not to the same degree as the first game in my experience (played the single-player 3 times now). Many test chambers require one specific solution with not much room for creative puzzle solving, well, besides the trial and error process of figuring a puzzle out; it seems that the introduction of all these new mechanics (the three kinds of gel, hard-light walkways, forward/backward tractor beams, faith plates, etc.) cumulatively make for much more specific solutions with less room for player delineation from the designer's intended sequence of events to complete them. So, the instances of forging your own path are there, just not as abundant as in the original. The puzzles themselves are varied enough to make repeat playthroughs still enjoyable, imo. The fantastic sense of atmosphere and thoughtful level/sound design, writing, and story also help.

I haven't played the co-op yet, so no clue on that front.

About the DLC stuff, it seems likely Valve will soon release more level packs, hopefully free. It would make no sense to spend dev resources making paid hats/gestures/doo-hickies if all there is to enjoy them in is the out-of-the-box coop campaign. It would be a smart move to counterbalance paid, non-vital cosmetic stuff with more meaty-but-free maps to ensure a vital and thriving community, a less disgruntled one at that. Valve is usually good about making the essential stuff free, and the paid optional stuff at least theoretically attainable through other means (if TF2 is any indication, also Portal 2 hats/gestures are able to be Found by playing/achievements a la TF2, not sure to what capacity though).

Some advanced chambers of the single-player stuff and a Challenge mode would be nice too. But I digress, we'll see which direction Valve takes it soon enough! Just an already happy customer thinking out loud about how Valve could make it even betterer than it already is.

>> ^westy:

>> ^WKB:
Was that Stephen Merchant?!? I thought this was a gag video at first with quotes from The Ricky Gervais show added.

yep it is and I think it really ruins the game for English people maby if they had applied some auto-tune / filters to it so it didn't just sound like Steve merchant doing a voice over through 60% of the game then it would have been ok.
I think they were looking for a "generic" English type person john clease typ thing and steve was the only one they could find lol.
I think most people will enjoy portal and think its utterly amazing. It is better than allot of games and is pretty polished , but at the same time i think it feels really dulled down as a game and although some of the puzzles and the mechanics available are really good , it missed allot of puzzles that would just be "fun" to do and certainly lacks puzzles that allow for th player to compleat them in multiple ways or in creative ways.
I think it suffers a tiny bit from consolitus ( no where near as bad as most games nowerdays)
What i don't understand as well is why the pc multipler is not set up in the same way as the CSS surf maps worked , where u could join into a server and play custom maps with a bunch of people that would be Realy good. i guess they wanted to do a split screen typ coop for console users.
im sure sum-one will mod it and it will evolve from there so that will be interesting to see

Didn't ruin it for me (an English person) becuase Wheatley is supposed to be a moron. Perfect voice for such a purpose.

>> ^WKB:

Was that Stephen Merchant?!? I thought this was a gag video at first with quotes from The Ricky Gervais show added.


yep it is and I think it really ruins the game for English people maby if they had applied some auto-tune / filters to it so it didn't just sound like Steve merchant doing a voice over through 60% of the game then it would have been ok.

I think they were looking for a "generic" English type person john clease typ thing and steve was the only one they could find lol.

I think most people will enjoy portal and think its utterly amazing. It is better than allot of games and is pretty polished , but at the same time i think it feels really dulled down as a game and although some of the puzzles and the mechanics available are really good , it missed allot of puzzles that would just be "fun" to do and certainly lacks puzzles that allow for th player to compleat them in multiple ways or in creative ways.

I think it suffers a tiny bit from consolitus ( no where near as bad as most games nowerdays)

What i don't understand as well is why the pc multipler is not set up in the same way as the CSS surf maps worked , where u could join into a server and play custom maps with a bunch of people that would be Realy good. i guess they wanted to do a split screen typ coop for console users.

im sure sum-one will mod it and it will evolve from there so that will be interesting to see

>> ^mxxcon:

why would The Coop waste his show's time on this lunatic?
don't give the voice to the fringe lunatics


Normally I'd agree whole heartedly, but in this rare case the fringe lunatic is an elected member of the Texas House of Representatives. This is the one exception where I believe the self-discrediting lunacy of someone needs to be as widely known as possible.

why would The Coop waste his show's time on this lunatic?
don't give the voice to the fringe lunatics

>> ^solecist:

bought it for the mp only...not sure why he didn't cover that aspect!


It seems he doesn't like playing with strangers. No really, he'll play coop games with a few friends, but really seems to hate competitive online play. Maybe too many bad experiences on xbox live.