This is the first video on homosexuality that I have been able to sit through the entire thing and not be irritated by one side or the other.

It has been hard for me to form a concrete opinion on homosexuality. I was raised in an extremely conservative Christian home (all my dad's family is Jehovah's Witness...), went to church every Sunday and most Wednesdays. Participated in weekly church events (Awanas, etc.). My first paying job was at my church. When I got older, I taught Sunday School every week for a group of 3rd grade girls. So I've had that extremely conservative Christian "Homosexuality is bad / terrible / unnatural / whatever else" belief shoved down my throat for years. But at the same time, my youngest aunt is a lesbian. She's closer in age to me than she is to my mother, and so I've always identified with her. She's definitely my favorite of all the aunts, and I definitely want her to be happy. I am all for civil and legal contracts, but I don't believe that's all that marriage is. I guess I just really identified with this video, seeing my viewpoint on both sides.

Yay Fox News: Shun and destroy all that is not conservative christian white bread America.


OMG, someone wanted to get pregnant to "feel good"?!?!?! that has never happened before, stop the presses. The funny yhtings, is that the middle, and right-side guys both ping little blips on my gaydar.

^ yeah, i distinctly remember that clip, when it was first released.

i also recall the all-too-predictable backlash, when it hit the front page, from conservatives, christians, o'reilly fans, etc. "disgraceful brainwashing of children, blahblahblah."

guessing none of those people saw Jesus Camp.

I wasn't going to bother, but my "whatever." comment was actually an edit. I had written about four paragraphs that I realized would be wasted breath/typing. Sufficed to say that I have grown up around politics, have worked in politics at both the local and federal level, have a reasonable understanding of how the world works and have done my own research and homework. I even grew up in a conservative Christian Republican family. Conclusion? I form MY OWN opinions, always have, and I support Barack Obama. Screw you if you think that makes me a Stepfordized Obama-zombie.

I didn't realize that supporting someone emphatically was a bad thing? I guess it is when they don't agree with you, eh? And chanting his name? People have done that in every presidential election. Hell, they do it for their local sports teams. How exactly is that a negative thing?

Also, to quote you, Joedirt, on a comment you made on one of your own sifts one year ago:

"Mgshadow, don't worry, the Dems won't allow an actual good candidate to make it to any ballots. I guarantee you won't see any Deans or Obamas ever.. just more Kerry, Clintons, and Gores."

What happened? He got popular so now he's no good anymore? Are you the kinda guy who supports a band until they get a record deal or on MTV and suddenly its all boos about how "they sold out" and "they aren't as good as they used to be"?

QM, missing the point and going after that straw man...no one is "offended" by the "cross". If anything people are bothered by how he is using it....many conservative Christians also have a problem with him using "Christ" as a campaign gimmick.

wow choggie I'm surprised you seem to miss the point entirely.

you seem to take great pride in attacking me for pointing out hypocrites like this, who abuse others using their faith as the basis of their racist, bigoted views.

Here, once again we have someone who threatening to punish others for supporting equal rights for gay people. People like this are a detriment to our society, spewing their hate and intolerance.

I find it amusing that you attack me for pointing this out. Others should be aware that these kinds of thing goes on. Next thing you know they'll want to take over politics so they can fashion our laws after the bible, Oh wait they're already doing that.

In reply to this comment by choggie:
so, qruel???....fancy yer own Atheist tabloid???? Sure you could find a target audience of circulation enough to justify the expense.....might even see a small return on the investment......I have seen, a gay atheist warrior, in visions......

All valid positions above, though, "mincemeat" describing the Devil's advocate on any subject USA? Stewart askes "why not" to questions he already knows the answer to, as always, and uses his pulpit like a advertiser uses the right amount of blacks, Asians, and whites to sell soap flakes. He knows the man's position, he knows what marriage means to those who use the origin in western culture of that framework-Why fair readers, do you imagine, that gay couples are not recognized as candidates for marriage in the U.S., and have never been? Is it pressure form conservative Christians??? No. Is it the kind of bigotry and "ism" that the blacks suffered during their long quest for civil rights in America? No. Is it, perhaps, an unspoken, unconscious, reaction by the majority of human beings everywhere on earth, to that which will serve to do nothing for the overall benefit of mankind, rather, that will satisfy the frustrated, socially underground, who have in the last 50 years, gained ground as a political special interest, as the country as a whole, has systematically been going down the tubes for the past 100 years??

How do groups of 20-50 in a tribal situation, deal with the homosexuals that pop up from time to time in their social structures......they abide them, they call attention to them in ways that set them apart, but they do not pattern their societal foundations, on encouraging the proliferation of unions.......Fuck Gay Marriage.

Touche on the Petra there, lol.

Ok, your initial thought in your sift talk post...I agree with, totally. You were impertinent though in introducing yourself to the community that way. You came across like one of the many clueless Christians I've grown up with, lived with, dealt with, worked with...you name it, all my life.
You didn't take the time to get to know anyone, although you may have lurked first. You came with a mission to be "the christian" here. It's a turn off, and frankly you look pretentious. That avatar of yours is a plain give away.

Why do you typical Christians blow it OVER AND OVER AND OVER again!! I'm so sick and tired of the average Christian today. You're all a broken record. You see the climate around here? The conservative Christian voices in this forum are mostly silent, and for a reason. Read again your sifttalk post and you'll see mine is the first comment of support. Am I anti christian, NO... In fact I'm the opposite. What I am though is anti- corny,outdated,pretentious,kneejerk reaction indoctrination form of Christianity which defines the sterotype you so unfairly represent. You just quote the Bible and never EVER question a damn thing. It's lazy...it's embarrassing..and worst of all it's dangerous.

I at one time was studying to be in the ministry, yeah I know it's hard to believe. I won't bore you w/ my life story, but at best now I guess I have to call myself agnostic. You know, given another circumstance/introduction, we could have actually enjoyed some thoughtful discussions on the subject.

But you just HAD to introduce yourself first on the blog and giving away what a clueless stereotype you are. You looked like a fundie tool showing up w/ a soap box to demand everyone eat up your evangelist agenda w/ a spoon! Don't you realize it's not that easy? If you're going to cause more damage than good for Christianity then don't bother.

I'm hard on professing Christians for a reason, SP. Because you need it. Persecution? Don't flatter yourself. You're not earning any crowns here. What you should be doing is deciding you have to do better... MUCH better. No one respects Christianity much these days. The generation behind you screwed things up for you royally. Re-evaluate yourself and do your damn soul searching and homework. Just saying "because the Bible says so" doesn't cut it anymore either. Consider it a personal challenge



Please do something about that "I'm a christian dork/in your face" avatar of yours? You look like a man about to burn down the compound.
Oh, and I voted for your ocarina sift.




In reply to your comment:
“"Climb off the high horse, Silent Poet. Your tact since your joining here has been far from genuine. If you won't be truthful about your motivations to us then at least try starting to be to yourself."

I really think you should take me at my word on this one. You seem to be judging me and my motivation simply because I am a professing Christian. I see no other reason for the blatant accusations. If you know of any reasons, please point them out to me.


"If you're going to behave like most Jesus fish wearing, Scofield carrying, closet Petra fans and then turn around and pretend you relate to the rest of world then you need to stand back and evaluate. You damage your cause more than inspiring others to be like you."
But here is the thing, you already assume that I will. It seems that no matter what kind of person I really am, to you I am just another Bible thumping Christian out here to do nothing but glorify myself. It seems to me that you already have your mind made up about me despite my actions and who I really am. Who are you to say that you know me? Do not assume that just because I have a cross on my avatar that I am exactly what your image of a stereotypical Christian is. If anything is damaging "my cause" is people ignoring or dismissing who I am and what I say because in their minds they already know what I am going to say, what I am going to do. All because I am professing Christian.
br>
"Perhaps we should make this a private conversation where I'll feel freer to help you see what you really represent to the secular community."

Ok.


"I'm rarely critical of folks here or their viewpoints. The asses around here I find just as endearing as the sweethearts. Sorry, you just happen to be one of those people that grates me. I'm not the only one that feels this way either. Can't you see why?"

No, I can not see why. I have asked others to show me as well. I have yet to be shown what exactly I have done to deserve this ridicule. Aparrently, being a professing Christian and claiming that one can still relate to others on the internet appears to be a big no-no. Other than that, I have no clue what I have done. I have been open and honest here on this site. I don't tell anybody anything that I didn't have to wrestle with myself. I haven't been overly biased. I can apreciate opinions other than my own. I only downvote videos when I see either that they are lacking quality or the way that the point of the video is made is underhanded or deceitful. Otherwise, I upvote them or simply leave them alone. I have tried to clear up any misconceptions of the Bible. Now it would seem that I have to clear up any misconceptions of what a Christian is as well. But I can't make people listen. Not if they already have thier minds closed to the matter.

Oh, and just FYI: I don't listen to Petra. I had to google for the wiki to figure out what the crap you were talking about. Same for Scofielf.”

sorry slimepuppy, never heard of him till you mentioned it, but iman neither a conservative Christian or a crusader for a cause....am a strong advocate of pasty white kids, getting out doors more, eating healhty foods, and positive interaction with piers.....I have played with this game m'self, can appreciate creativity in its many manifestations, but find it fucking boring, conducive, like most repetitive endeavors, to carpal tunnel brain, time-wasting, and withdrawal from healthy, productive, and meaningful mentations.....garbage in,etc etc......and so it grows........

would rather copulate, build things with my hands, cultivate veggies, raise animals, or party naked.....all of which've become quite efficient in....carry on, oh ye labelers and categorizers.......the world could not function without slugs and insects either, which is why one does not despise what one must share the planet with, or salt and burn them anymore...

The titles was meant sarcastic(or something like how O'Reilly would describe it, I'm not sure..), It wasnt a real debate, it was just Bill screaming over the other guys voice.

Obviously, all the people Bill O'Reilly calls "far-left" or Radical Left, are mostly not even left, most of the democratic party are still conservative christian right-wingers by european standards.(where the terms Left and Right were coined.) "American Left" you might call them.

Let's please stop living in the stone ages. Maybe if we allowed people to do whatever they want in their private lives, we'd stop letting our prejudices dictate our world. Am not gay, but am against imposing Laws on people's behavior.

Have a look through US Divorce Rates across Ethnic and Religious backgrounds.

An interesting observation:

"Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and for Atheists and Agnostics. "While it may be alarming to discover that born again Christians are more likely than others to experience a divorce, that pattern has been in place for quite some time. Even more disturbing, perhaps, is that when those individuals experience a divorce many of them feel their community of faith provides rejection rather than support and healing. But the research also raises questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families. The ultimate responsibility for a marriage belongs to the husband and wife, but the high incidence of divorce within the Christian community challenges the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriages.""

I think some of you missed my point. Using Leviticus as a reason to disbelieve in Christianity is absurd. Did you read any of the New Testament?

And I figure I'll throw this in there as well. People get a lot of mileage out of berating Christians for having a holier-than-thou attitude (which, I admit, some of them do, but they're missing the point). Being a Christian is most definitely not about thinking you're perfect. It's really about recognizing that you're flawed and a sinner and that God's grace means it's okay. Being condescending is missing the point and if the ultra-conservative Christians could get that figured out they wouldn't be so demonized.

Anyway...

rickegee, I've no doubt that I'd "connect with an audience" if I had the blind faith of a hand-picked conservative Christian zombie crowd, too.

Obama's main appeal to me is that the guy is actually thoughtful, which pretty much makes him the anti-Bush.