It's not hate speech, at least not most of the time. It's the love child of people who do not have the sensory, intellectual, and emotional apparatus trying to portray personal and spiritual complexity.

The dramatic art was and essentially still is tied to religion. For tragedy nd comedy to exist you need a feeling of belonging, which lies beyond any secular rationalization. The religions that dramatic art was tied to were various. Theater is half church half whorehouse, as is sometimes stated. Modern drama has neither side of this communion, that's why it mostly stinks.

Aeons ago, galactic archaeologists came upon a planet known by its indigenous sentient creatures as "Earth". They found remnants of a once thriving civilization buried in primitive magnetic recording devices. These devices were nothing more than static (and horribly imperfect) storage containers for the thoughts of the indigenous sentients. Note that these devices were nothing like our mental storage containers which can recreate a mind on demand. Rather, they contained only the outward expression of the local creatures' mental states, namely their "words". The Choggians, as they called themselves, were apparently limited to communicating with each other strictly through these outward thought recording devices. Naturally, this often led to conflict, as each individual would be free to interpret the meaning of another's mental state. While such a concept is as alien to us as the fanatical individualism of the Sisterhood, nevertheless, these Choggians still managed to completely dominate and ultimately destroy their planet (also not unlike the Sisterhood).

It is important to understand the exceptionally primitive nature of communication in which these Choggians engaged. While we enjoy instantaneous communion with any of our brethren, the Choggians apparently had no other means of communicating with each other except through these external thought recording devices, locally known as "hard drives", superimposed upon a tortuous network they reverently named "The InterTubes". The InterTubes was a mechanism of linking all of the species' individual hard drives with each other, however, it's pathetically limited bandwidth even further reduced coherency in the Choggians' communication. While globally pervasive, it allowed for little more than the most basic of concepts to be transferred from one mind to another. And while it is clear than many Choggians engaged in exceptional effort to completely encode their mental state into this substandard medium, it is also just as clear that the species never developed any technology for true communication.

to be continued

Iron Maiden:Paschendale
From LyricWiki
This song is performed by Iron Maiden.

In a foreign field he lay, lonely soldier unknown grave
On his dying words he prays, tell the world of Paschendale

Relive all that he's been through, last communion of his soul
Rust your bullets with his tears. Let me tell you 'bout his years

Laying low in a blood filled trench, killing time 'til my very own death
On my face I can feel the falling rain, never see my friends again

In the smoke in the mud and lead, smell the fear and the feeling of dread
Soon be time to go over the wall, rapid fire and the end of us all

Whistles, shouts and more gun fire, lifeless bodies hang on barbed wire
Battlefield nothing but a bloody tomb, be reunited with my dead friends soon

Many soldiers eighteen years, drown in mud no more tears
Surely a war no-one can win, killing time about to begin

Home, far away, from the war, a chance to live again
Home, far away, but the war, no chance to live again

The bodies of ours and our foes, the sea of death it overflows
In no man's land God only knows, into jaws of death we go

Crucified as if on a cross, allied troops they mourn their loss
German war propaganda machine, such before has never been seen
Swear I heard the angels cry, pray to god no more will die
So that people know the truth, tell the tale of Paschendale

Cruelty has a human heart, everyman does play his part
Terror of the men we kill, the human heart is hungry still

I stand my ground for the very last time, gun is ready as I stand in line
Nervous wait for the whistle to blow, rush of blood and over we go

Blood is falling like the rain, its crimson cloak unveils again
The sound of guns can't hide their shame, and so we die on Paschendale

Dodging shrapnel and barbed wire, running straight at cannon fire
Running blind as I hold my breath, say a prayer symphony of death

As we charge the enemy lines, a burst of fire and we go down
I choke a cry but no-one hears, feel the blood go down my throat

Home, far away, from the war, a chance to live again
Home, far away, but the war, no chance to live again

See my spirit on the wind, across the lines beyond the hill
Friend and foe will meet again, those who died at Paschendale

All they needed were some glowsticks and then it would be a rave. I'm pretty sure there was a little ecstasy in the communion wine.

And dance is an *art form, though these freaks make that questionable.

True, true. There are times when I think it's actually a chapter in the bible. "Please open your bibles to hypocrisy chapter 4, verse 8. And the lord said Love everyone like your own father, but hate that guy, that guy, aaaand that guy over there by the well."

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
Too late; I already got ya started. Hypocrisy abounds in the Catholic church too, brother. I don't think any religion or sect has a monopoly on that.

In reply to this comment by MrConrads:
I can see that. I actually have a few Catholic friends many of whom still practice and attend regular services so I can see where you're coming from at least a little bit. I was raised Lutheran so basically I just mumbled my way through monotonous hymns and recited the lords prayer a few thousand times. sigh... At least the communions were slightly unsupervised so I could sneak a small shot of wine every now and then. Guilt, that never really got to me but the hypocrisy in that church, OY! don't get me started!

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
I hear ya, I really do. I was born and raised Catholic. Though I walked away from it years ago, many of the symptoms remain. Guilt, being first and foremost.

In reply to this comment by MrConrads:
Same. There have been very few decisions that I have made in my past where I can say "wow, that really was a great choice that I made there" ... walking away from the church and never looking back is one of those decisions.

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
I'm not Jewish, nor do I believe in God, yet I still feel this dude's pain.

Too late; I already got ya started. Hypocrisy abounds in the Catholic church too, brother. I don't think any religion or sect has a monopoly on that.

In reply to this comment by MrConrads:
I can see that. I actually have a few Catholic friends many of whom still practice and attend regular services so I can see where you're coming from at least a little bit. I was raised Lutheran so basically I just mumbled my way through monotonous hymns and recited the lords prayer a few thousand times. sigh... At least the communions were slightly unsupervised so I could sneak a small shot of wine every now and then. Guilt, that never really got to me but the hypocrisy in that church, OY! don't get me started!

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
I hear ya, I really do. I was born and raised Catholic. Though I walked away from it years ago, many of the symptoms remain. Guilt, being first and foremost.

In reply to this comment by MrConrads:
Same. There have been very few decisions that I have made in my past where I can say "wow, that really was a great choice that I made there" ... walking away from the church and never looking back is one of those decisions.

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
I'm not Jewish, nor do I believe in God, yet I still feel this dude's pain.

I can see that. I actually have a few Catholic friends many of whom still practice and attend regular services so I can see where you're coming from at least a little bit. I was raised Lutheran so basically I just mumbled my way through monotonous hymns and recited the lords prayer a few thousand times. sigh... At least the communions were slightly unsupervised so I could sneak a small shot of wine every now and then. Guilt, that never really got to me but the hypocrisy in that church, OY! don't get me started!

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
I hear ya, I really do. I was born and raised Catholic. Though I walked away from it years ago, many of the symptoms remain. Guilt, being first and foremost.

In reply to this comment by MrConrads:
Same. There have been very few decisions that I have made in my past where I can say "wow, that really was a great choice that I made there" ... walking away from the church and never looking back is one of those decisions.

In reply to this comment by kronosposeidon:
I'm not Jewish, nor do I believe in God, yet I still feel this dude's pain.

he twists the ENTIRE, repeat, ENTIRE segment on the flesh and blood of Jesus. he uses holy communion to compare Christianity to a "bizarre satanic cult" off of an assumption he made. he said it METAPHORICALLY SOUNDS LIKE a "bizarre satanic cult" and bases his whole argument off of that.

upvote for finally finding a religion video that Religious, Atheists, and Agnostics can all agree sucks.

No sliding for me, I'm on a schedule, dammit! It's get in, get fucked and get the hell out. I've already got my knob in my hand. Who wants communion?

Wow - I'd love to have a birthday party like that thrown for me.
Scientology is on to something here.
Birthday parties - perhaps Bar Mitzvahs, First Communions - or not.
How much of my salary do I have to contribute to this cult?

well.... more like taped to the engine under it's hood. They found the one in the communion grail and the one taped in the piano.

Oh I get it now.

Jews don't know what communion wafers are LAWL

(comment NSFW) ^ do you mean a variation of this?

Re your wife joining, I'd say that was non cheating for both of you. In fact, if you both had clones, and spent time with each other irrespective of each others cloneness, I'd say none of that was infidelity.

On a side note, might the possibility of a clone providing slef pleasure ever be a female fantasy? (youdiejoe has shown that it could for a guy, and that two female clones could be a fantasy for a guy goes without saying, and isn't what I mean).

Moving back off the sub topic, I was wondering if a good use of cloneing would be to experience things of possible high reward but also greater risk. (World travel partly falls into this, the risk also being reduced by simultaneously being able to stay at home and work, funding said trip. which sucks for that clone).

Or, would the survival instinct/self preservation be no more diluted than the situation of identical twins.

Infact, does the concept of identical twin completely break the clone concept, because we never just mean genetic parity, but also mental and "self" parity...

E.g. a clone does not take normal time for their body to grow to a level of development matching that of the cloned person, and that a mental imprint is taken too, such that the clone IS the same person from that point.

However, Id think that this would still allow divergence of person hood, from this point of cloning.

Thinking about this, and considering possibility's of telepathy/mental communication and communion, I'd think the next stage up from the above cloning (immediate, and self clone as well as genetic) would be for the two individuals to be in continual contact mental, sharing ideas/thoughts and relating their divergent experiences (one at work/one traveling, or one at work/one with the wifes clone).

Next level up form this, and what I'd perceive to be the ideal, is the concept of OverMind with clone body's being subprocess units.

Let me use computer analogies to explain what I mean.

1.Genetic Cloning (Identical twin paralel)
Two PCs, built with the same hardware. They initially run the same program, but each program is fed distinct data. Due to the divergence in data, the program states diverge form each other with time, this divergence becoming increasingly noticeable.

2. Instant Cloning with Mind Copy.
1PC is built, and a program is set running. It is fed data.
Another PC is built with the same hardware as the first PC. The program running on the first PC is loaded into the new PC. A snapshot, of the first PCs program state and data history, is used to initialize the 2nd PCs program.

Although both are in sync at this point, they will be fed distinct data from here on and thus grow apart form each other.

3. Instant cloning with Mind Copy and Experience Sharing/Communication.
Same as above, but once running, the 2nd PC feeds its experience data to the first, and vis versa. Communication is constant and "self" decisions are shared by discussion.

4. OverMind, many bodys.

Instant Bodys clones are made as needed. Each one is capable of providing its brain as an extra CPU... e.g.

Mainframe. One program running. Whilst running, Hardware is upgrading, adding and removing CPUs as bodies are created/destroyed. Rather than multiple programs being run/stoped, its always the same single program, the same "self" just using more brain capacity when tis their.

I think option 4 is definitely the most desirable, allows self to fully experience all the "Rolls" to which a body is assigned (ala mlx's original ideas) and there can be no concept or worry about either infidelity or clash of self with divergent self (identical twins are far from guaranteed to get along). Also, the self is less threatened by danger to an individual unit/body, and is therefore free to gain the rewards of greater experience through greater risk taking.

SF has dealt with these ideas quite often. A pop SF overmind parallel would be the Borg from ST, although that doesn't use cloning but predatory parasitic invasion/assimilation and has gone way beyond a sensible safety net of a few helpful Units.

This is a good read, and handles clone + mind copy for life extension/self recovery after accident, as well as complications and other themes.

unfortunately, none of which will help mlx do the activities of 5* a single person, or me get to Burning Man any time soon.

Religion gives billions more purpose and meaning than it has harmed. Mocking minorities who take the Bible literally doesn't invalidate the core truths of the Bible or other Holy texts: communion with a Higher Power, Oneness with the Self, valuing life, etc. If humans were perfect creatures, religion and religious training even in the guise of secular values would be unnecessary. As religion is a human enterprise it is bound to be flawed. So what? What isn't?

Yeah, most major religions claim they're the Only Way...again, so what? For anyone with faith it's more likely to believe all paths are valid than none of them.

Stalin and Mao, two of the world's biggest mass murderers--were promoters of atheism. Instead of a god they made the State Almighty. Didn't turn out too well.

Believing nothing in life is greater than yourself and that you're the final authority on what's good or bad invites gullibility several magnitudes higher than the simple religious trying to live their lives with meaning.

You will never get rid of religion: it speaks to what gives life meaning, not how things work.

"I'm not religious (Mormon or otherwise), but I don't consider garments any more ridiculous than yarmulkes or communion wafers or any number of other religious practices."
- But you're totally right. They're all ridiculous.