>> ^GeeSussFreeK:

If God indeed is God then would it not be justified? (I should qualify this with I am an agnostic atheist) But there is very little that separates a Abrahamic faith than a scientific one, or even logical one. Rational systems have undeniably "Chinese walls", as does science. Bedrocks on which are facts that have to be accepted that can't be proved. All people, every single one, lives their day hinged on "facts" they have no idea are "True" with a capital T. Everyone is living with some form of dogma. It is a new found arrogance, and perhaps in rebellion of the arrogance that "religion" has had for some time, that people who don't "have faith" are somehow being smarter or less dictated too. Many of the worlds brilliant mathematicians and my personal favorites were rejected by the world of "free thinkers" to the point where they killed themsevles. All their opposition died, in time, and their ideas only came into popularity after they were dead and in the ground. People are brutally unfair, not fully considering things most of the time...even those tasked with the responsibility to do great thinking. Seldom to people embrace the ignorance we all share, and instead bask in the differences.
One of my favorite quotes on the matter is this:
So strong is this propensity of mankind to fall into mutual animosities, that where no substantial occasion presents itself, the most frivolous and fanciful distinctions have been sufficient to kindle their unfriendly passions and excite their most violent conflicts.
-James Madison
We are all not so different, in the end...how could we be?
>> ^A10anis:
>> ^GeeSussFreeK:
>> ^A10anis:
I am an Anti-theist, in that the very thought of an eternity of cowing, grovelling, and being a slave to some celestial being is not one I would choose. It would be, as Hitchens says, like an eternity in North Korea. Be a slave to your god if you wish, but leave the rest of us, most importantly our children, to think for ourselves.

A lot of self indulgence and confirmation bias there, as much as some faiths religions (for clarity ) I would suppose.

No bias, just fact. Name one Abrahamic faith that does NOT dictate to it's followers. I choose freedom of thought, over controlled thought, every time. Religion, if is not stopped, will happily take us back to the dark ages. A time when they had absolute power over every aspect of peoples lives. Who, in their right mind, would prefer that to freedom?


What are you talking about? How can you rationally claim that "very little separates Abrahamic faith from science?" or that science has "facts that can't be proved?" BTW, you cannot be an Agnostic Atheist, you are either not sure there is a god, or you believe there is no god. Or are you saying you are not sure if you are an atheist..lol. I leave it to others to see the nonsense of your non-sequiturs.

If God indeed is God then would it not be justified? (I should qualify this with I am an agnostic atheist) But there is very little that separates a Abrahamic faith than a scientific one, or even logical one. Rational systems have undeniably "Chinese walls", as does science. Bedrocks on which are facts that have to be accepted that can't be proved. All people, every single one, lives their day hinged on "facts" they have no idea are "True" with a capital T. Everyone is living with some form of dogma. It is a new found arrogance, and perhaps in rebellion of the arrogance that "religion" has had for some time, that people who don't "have faith" are somehow being smarter or less dictated too. Many of the worlds brilliant mathematicians and my personal favorites were rejected by the world of "free thinkers" to the point where they killed themsevles. All their opposition died, in time, and their ideas only came into popularity after they were dead and in the ground. People are brutally unfair, not fully considering things most of the time...even those tasked with the responsibility to do great thinking. Seldom to people embrace the ignorance we all share, and instead bask in the differences.

One of my favorite quotes on the matter is this:

So strong is this propensity of mankind to fall into mutual animosities, that where no substantial occasion presents itself, the most frivolous and fanciful distinctions have been sufficient to kindle their unfriendly passions and excite their most violent conflicts.

-James Madison

We are all not so different, in the end...how could we be?

>> ^A10anis:

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:
>> ^A10anis:
I am an Anti-theist, in that the very thought of an eternity of cowing, grovelling, and being a slave to some celestial being is not one I would choose. It would be, as Hitchens says, like an eternity in North Korea. Be a slave to your god if you wish, but leave the rest of us, most importantly our children, to think for ourselves.

A lot of self indulgence and confirmation bias there, as much as some faiths religions (for clarity ) I would suppose.

No bias, just fact. Name one Abrahamic faith that does NOT dictate to it's followers. I choose freedom of thought, over controlled thought, every time. Religion, if is not stopped, will happily take us back to the dark ages. A time when they had absolute power over every aspect of peoples lives. Who, in their right mind, would prefer that to freedom?

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:

>> ^A10anis:
I am an Anti-theist, in that the very thought of an eternity of cowing, grovelling, and being a slave to some celestial being is not one I would choose. It would be, as Hitchens says, like an eternity in North Korea. Be a slave to your god if you wish, but leave the rest of us, most importantly our children, to think for ourselves.

A lot of self indulgence and confirmation bias there, as much as some faiths religions (for clarity ) I would suppose.

No bias, just fact. Name one Abrahamic faith that does NOT dictate to it's followers. I choose freedom of thought, over controlled thought, every time. Religion, if is not stopped, will happily take us back to the dark ages. A time when they had absolute power over every aspect of peoples lives. Who, in their right mind, would prefer that to freedom?

>> ^A10anis:

I am an Anti-theist, in that the very thought of an eternity of cowing, grovelling, and being a slave to some celestial being is not one I would choose. It would be, as Hitchens says, like an eternity in North Korea. Be a slave to your god if you wish, but leave the rest of us, most importantly our children, to think for ourselves.


A lot of self indulgence and confirmation bias there, as much as some faiths religions (for clarity ) I would suppose.

I am an Anti-theist, in that the very thought of an eternity of cowing, grovelling, and being a slave to some celestial being is not one I would choose. It would be, as Hitchens says, like an eternity in North Korea. Be a slave to your god if you wish, but leave the rest of us, most importantly our children, to think for ourselves.

Some celestial event. No - no words. No words to describe it. Poetry! They should've sent a poet. So beautiful. So beautiful... I had no idea.

The sheer arrogance and stupidity of this guy, and his inflammatory rhetoric, perpetuates this ridiculous situation. Claiming that his imaginary god, acting as some sort of celestial real estate broker thousands of years ago, gave HIS "people" the land, and HE "came back and claimed it," is ignorant, bronze age nonsense. If it were palestinians building next door, and he was happy to live in harmony with them, as a fellow human being should, that would be true "progress my friend."

You have been awarded 1 Power Point for fixing the embed code for Dead Pool video Size Comparison of Various Celestial Bodies. Thank you for helping maintain VideoSift's reliability.

Not sure whether Shiny is scary or funny. Both maybe?

P. S.: The Celestial Teapot says "Hi"
P. S. S.: Dionysus says "Hi"
P. S. S. S.: Osiris says "Hi"
P. S. S. S. S. : Attis says "Hi"
P. S. S. S. S. S.: Mithras says "Hi"
P. S. S. S. S. S. S.: The Flying Spaghetti Monster extends his noodley appendage in a manner which means, "Hi."

>> ^shinyblurry:

An open mind is a saving grace if you use it to follow the evidence. I believe that the truth is accessible on all levels to all people, if they subliminate their need to be right and follow it where ever it may lead. One thing leads to another..
>> ^Drax:
@shinyblurry I don't see that particular claim made by myself, actually. I have my own opinions and beliefs on most things, but I generally acknowledge that anything's possible.



I come to conclusions of my own about many things, mostly I never come to a dead end however.. There's always the possibility the road continues on, but that's another point all together. The thing is I rarely, if ever, will agree that there is absolutely no chance that I'm wrong on anything.

Just like, there's a chance all of reality is actually a dream of a celestial penguin (that would so rock), and I'm some sort of residual self-image of the penguin within that dream. I don't think that's true at all, but anything is possible (For the record - I give that one about the same odds as most of your beliefs).

And that's why I, at least, clash with you.. I don't have a problem with your beliefs, I respect your right to have them (as long as it doesn't cause others harm <- general rule).. I dislike that it seems you don't believe there's *any* chance that your strong views may be wrong. And you really really like to remind us all here of that.
I guess that's just how it's going to be though, but hey.. I keep an open mind about it. : )

(note: And I'm dead serious.. this is not in any way meant to imply I think you're unwelcome on the Sift. One, that's not my.. or pretty much anyone's call to make unless you do something wrong here.. and two, the more interesting people here the better, imo)

It is possible to prove it. It all comes down the resurrection of Christ..If He rose from the dead, if it is indeed a historical event, then God does exist and everything the bible says is true. Anyone can claim to be the Son of God, but no one but the Son of God could prove it by rising from the dead. There is plenty of good evidence to suggest He did rise from the dead. It is reasonable to conclude from this evidence that what Christ said is true..and therefore, if you honesty seek Him, you will find Him..and He will show you He is real.

>> ^Sketch:
You've got to be kidding me! Of course it's impossible to prove it either way! That's the entire damned point of the Flying Spaghetti Monster! You can't prove it except to assert that because people wrote a book to worship, it must be true!
You expect me to accept that there is some all-powerful, perfect, magical, interdimentional being that created everything at a whim, yet somehow never had to be created Himself, is eternal, demands that I live my life a certain way, is supposedly all-loving despite all of the suffering that He causes, and the only reasons that you can give me to believe such a cockamamie story are that a lot of people really believe that it's true (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum), and that there is a book that says that it's true (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning)! Forgive my crass interjection, but that is complete and utter horse shit!
Moot my ass, it's exactly the point! If you want to stick with Santa, then let's! It's the same thing! You don't expect me to believe that there is a Santa as the mythical, magical figure that we know him now just because there are a lot of kids that believe in him and he's an important cultural figure, do you? And he was at least based on a real person!>> ^smooman:
>> ^Sketch:
You CANNOT prove the non-existence of something like this! It's the same old Celestial Teapot, Pink Unicorn, Flying Spaghetti Monster issue! As with my laser eyes, prove that they don't exist! It is a ridiculous thing to even request!

i would argue that it is fundamentally impossible to actually "prove" it either way, existence or nonexistence. However, when compared to the tired diatribe of the teapot or spaghetti monster, its moot. No one could disprove your laser eyes, or a celestial teapot just as no one could prove them either. I am less inclined to believe in your laser eyes or a celestial teapot in that at no point in human history have they ever been relevant or significant enough for men to write holy works about them throughout the centuries. The whole spaghetti monster thing is really just dumb. If you want to illustrate your point youd be better served sticking with santa (dozens of myths written about the character in many nations over many centuries) than something like these teapots and pasta monsters that are entirely irrelevant

You've got to be kidding me! Of course it's impossible to prove it either way! That's the entire damned point of the Flying Spaghetti Monster! You can't prove it except to assert that because people wrote a book to worship, it must be true!

You expect me to accept that there is some all-powerful, perfect, magical, interdimentional being that created everything at a whim, yet somehow never had to be created Himself, is eternal, demands that I live my life a certain way, is supposedly all-loving despite all of the suffering that He causes, and the only reasons that you can give me to believe such a cockamamie story are that a lot of people really believe that it's true (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum), and that there is a book that says that it's true (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning)! Forgive my crass interjection, but that is complete and utter horse shit!

Moot my ass, it's exactly the point! If you want to stick with Santa, then let's! It's the same thing! You don't expect me to believe that there is a Santa as the mythical, magical figure that we know him now just because there are a lot of kids that believe in him and he's an important cultural figure, do you? And he was at least based on a real person!>> ^smooman:

>> ^Sketch:
You CANNOT prove the non-existence of something like this! It's the same old Celestial Teapot, Pink Unicorn, Flying Spaghetti Monster issue! As with my laser eyes, prove that they don't exist! It is a ridiculous thing to even request!

i would argue that it is fundamentally impossible to actually "prove" it either way, existence or nonexistence. However, when compared to the tired diatribe of the teapot or spaghetti monster, its moot. No one could disprove your laser eyes, or a celestial teapot just as no one could prove them either. I am less inclined to believe in your laser eyes or a celestial teapot in that at no point in human history have they ever been relevant or significant enough for men to write holy works about them throughout the centuries. The whole spaghetti monster thing is really just dumb. If you want to illustrate your point youd be better served sticking with santa (dozens of myths written about the character in many nations over many centuries) than something like these teapots and pasta monsters that are entirely irrelevant

>> ^Sketch:

You CANNOT prove the non-existence of something like this! It's the same old Celestial Teapot, Pink Unicorn, Flying Spaghetti Monster issue! As with my laser eyes, prove that they don't exist! It is a ridiculous thing to even request!


i would argue that it is fundamentally impossible to actually "prove" it either way, existence or nonexistence. However, when compared to the tired diatribe of the teapot or spaghetti monster, its moot. No one could disprove your laser eyes, or a celestial teapot just as no one could prove them either. I am less inclined to believe in your laser eyes or a celestial teapot in that at no point in human history have they ever been relevant or significant enough for men to write holy works about them throughout the centuries. The whole spaghetti monster thing is really just dumb. If you want to illustrate your point youd be better served sticking with santa (dozens of myths written about the character in many nations over many centuries) than something like these teapots and pasta monsters that are entirely irrelevant

How do you prove something that exists outside of space and time? What physical process could you use to point to it? Anyone could go and examine you and verify whether you have "laser eyes". There is no way to put God under a microscope.

Therefore, we rely on Him to communicate with us. Faith is in the unseen, it is not blind. I don't believe in God because the bible told me to. I believe in God because He showed me He is real. He would show you too, if you honesty sought Him out. Yet, you just believe what you've heard and haven't looked for the truth yourself.

Lets say there was a certain King, whom you had never seen..and you are one of his peasants. You're under his authority and expected to work for him in the fields for a wage, and that when you are of the age of retirement, he will give you a home on his land and thank you personally. You see soldiers of his, marching through the town. You hear people talking about his attributes, his justness and intelligence. You witness his authority displayed all around you. It is plain there is a King though you had never seen him.

Now lets say one day you refuse to work, refuse to submit to his authority. You say to yourself, I don't believe this King is really real; I've never seen him with my own eyes.. This a conspiracy, I will just do whatever I want. You even decide to go into the towns square to tell others to stop working for this King. That it is a fools errand, the King is a hoax you say. You're wasting your lives when you could live for yourself! Yet, when the King gets wind of this he tells his soldiers "Fetch my ungrateful servant and bring him in front of me"

The soldiers fetch you and bring you before the throne. Finally, you get to see this King with your own eyes. Yet, it's too late..you've already earned His judgment. If you had pleased him the evidence would have been forthcoming. If you had done a good job, you would have earned a reward. Instead you refused to do your duty, and thus earned a criminals fate. Cursing your foolishness, you are taken to the gallows, but there is no reprieve forthcoming.

>> ^Sketch:
You CANNOT prove the non-existence of something like this! It's the same old Celestial Teapot, Pink Unicorn, Flying Spaghetti Monster issue! As with my laser eyes, prove that they don't exist! It is a ridiculous thing to even request!