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Bernie Sanders shows support for aims of Jeremy Corbyn

dannym3141 says...

There are some that suggest May or the tories in general are trying to lose the election so that Labour WILL take the backlash. Ultimately no way to know how that will go, but right now there is severe backlash towards the tories and the narrative is swiftly changing towards Labour. I see an election win as the start of a very, very long conversation. Activists will have to continue the fight, press standards will have to be changed either through public pressure or through legislature. And in Britain that might happen because the press here are the most distrusted in europe (52% disapproval, or 52% considered biased/corrupt, or something).

I said in the past that the UK was ready to change. Essentially, the narrative was there to be taken right back, but I didn't know if Corbyn's team had the skill to do it. I have to say that I am blown away by Labour's campaign, it has been almost flawless. I say that because i think the narrative is there to be taken on Brexit. The tories called the referendum to hold onto power. They arrogantly called the general election to consolidate power, with Brexit talks imminent, only to whine about being too busy to do interviews because they're thinking about Brexit! They have then made a catastrophic hash of their campaign, u-turned 5 or 6 times, contradicted themselves, and generally shown themselves to be weak, without answers, and bullies. In 10 years time, who knows what we will think? But in the short term at least, this can be framed as a "they fucked it up, but we'll take over in a crisis and try to fix it."

At the end of the day, a Corbyn government has always been so out of the question that i don't know what to expect if that were to happen. Is another referendum on leaving out of the question?

At the very least, for now, i would say Brits prefer the idea of Labour sorting out Brexit than the Tories, and the average attitude towards Brexit in the country is rather one of resigned acceptance - we know it's bad, but we did it, so now we better get on with it. But we're very suspicious, and don't want to get shafted by irresponsible or reckless politicians. True for the left and right, but obviously for different reasons.

radx said:

As much as I'd love to see Corbyn's Labour win the election, it depresses me to think how the nightmare that is Brexit would then have to be "managed" by them. In the end, the inevitable disaster might very well be laid at Labour's feet by the press, thereby discrediting Corbyn's policies for years to come.

Or does anyone see any way Brexit could be done that does not end in disaster? From where I'm standing, it's a five-year process in the best of times, yet neither are these the best of times, nor have the Tories done anything of substance in the time since the referendum. In fact, they don't even seem to be aware of what enormous undertaking these kinds of negotations are. Judging by the "leaks" from Juncker's meeting with May, she seemed completely unprepared, even delusional and misinformed about the process.

Bernie Sanders shows support for aims of Jeremy Corbyn

radx says...

As much as I'd love to see Corbyn's Labour win the election, it depresses me to think how the nightmare that is Brexit would then have to be "managed" by them. In the end, the inevitable disaster might very well be laid at Labour's feet by the press, thereby discrediting Corbyn's policies for years to come.

Or does anyone see any way Brexit could be done that does not end in disaster? From where I'm standing, it's a five-year process in the best of times, yet neither are these the best of times, nor have the Tories done anything of substance in the time since the referendum. In fact, they don't even seem to be aware of what enormous undertaking these kinds of negotations are. Judging by the "leaks" from Juncker's meeting with May, she seemed completely unprepared, even delusional and misinformed about the process.

Bernie Sanders shows support for aims of Jeremy Corbyn

dannym3141 says...

So this is relevant because of a recent surge in support for "radical left" (i.e. democratic socialist, centre-left) Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn who has had a huge surge in popularity in recent weeks in a general election campaign he was expected to catastrophically lose by all mainstream sources.

Since winning two Labour party leadership elections in 2015, voted in by historic margins by ordinary members having their say for the first time, he has faced hostile criticism from all mainstream media sources and most politicians including his own party.

The grass roots, which helped drive his earlier victories, appears to be doing the same thing for him in this general election campaign. The grass roots involvement has included youth musicians, artists and activists coming together from multiple campaigns (Save The NHS, WASPI, most unions, including teachers, fire, police and transport, and far too many other interest groups to mention, including multiple disability campaigners). As well as individuals, parents, elderly, and Momentum - a group formed in the afterglow of his leadership win.

On the other hand, Theresa May's and the Tory party's campaign has gone from disaster to disaster. After claiming to be the party of economic security, they released an entirely uncosted manifesto (Labour's was fully costed, other party's included some costings). After trying to make it a match of personalities, she has gone from robotic gaffe to robotic gaffe, dodging questions whilst Corbyn's easy charm and honesty has gone quite a way to show those weaknesses up. She has claimed to be stable and strong, and the best hand to negotiate Brexit, but performed u-turn after u-turn and is now avoiding all but mandatory press contact because her and her brand have become toxic, thanks to things like the "Dementia Tax" and a promise to vote again on allowing barbaric fox hunting. She has been caught out, and regardless of the results of the general election, Theresa May is finished as Conservative leader. Potentially, the back of austerity has been broken and exposed. A movement has been started and even if the Tory's win, watch out for a mass people power'd intervention over their heinous plans.

God i could go on, this has been amazing to watch. Obviously i'm biased towards Labour, and whilst a centre-right opponent might describe things differently, the facts are the same.

Significant things are happening in the UK right now, not wholly dissimilar from the rise of Sanders, only this time it's for the actual prime minister position - Corbyn managed to outmaneuver the corruption of his party. If the election was 2 weeks longer i would predict a huge Labour landslide. After being so ridiculed by a hostile media for so long, election bias rules have forced the press into giving Corbyn a fair hearing and the more people see, the more they appear to like. The question is, have people already cast their vote by post? Will people turn up and vote? A big turnout is expected to favour Labour. A strong youth turnout will be hugely beneficial to Labour.

enoch (Member Profile)

radx says...

They're not gonna vote in favour of Brexit! - Bam!
They're not gonna vote in favour of Trump! - Bam!
They're not gonna vote in favour of Erdogan! - Bam!

And the nomenklatura is still either pretending to not know how much their policies have hurt the plebs, or they actually don't know, or they simply don't give a shit. No matter, result's the same.

France's up next weekend. The darling of the neoliberal elite, Macron, vs the nationalist Le Pen, with outsider chances for our boy Mélenchon.

Better strap in tight, we're in for a wild ride.

newtboy (Member Profile)

Jinx says...

Perhaps I am being obtuse but I feel that one of us, or perhaps both of us, are not understanding the other.

A parallel: After Brexit there was some rather ugly anti-immigrant stuff flying around. "Polish vermin" etc. I did, in my bitterness, fantasise about a UK without immigrants because it would be such deliciously ironic justice. I mean, in reality I'd have my Polish friends and a country that actually functions rather than "I told you sos" and packing bags... but still, sometimes I do wish lessons would be learned the only way some will ever learn them.

newtboy said:

Yeah...except that ignores your original point, that without non-whites efforts, 'merica would implode. I don't feel like a racially pure white supremacist nation would be a utopia in any way, even though I'm extremely white. (for one, my wife would have to go, not cool, and probably me for marrying her)

Vintage Footage of London, 1890 -1920

50 Days of Trump - Jonathan Pie

enoch (Member Profile)

radx says...

Mark Blyth is my third favorite Scot, right after two brothers who are dear friends of mine. After his famous interview for Athens Live, every video of his released by the Watson Institute has pretty much been a must-watch, particularly his takes on "The Deplorables" and the Front Nationale.

I got his book "Austerity: The History of a Dangerous Idea" after it was praised heavily over at NakedCapitalism 3-4 years ago -- to me, there is no bigger compliment for an economist than praise by Yves and the commentariat over at NC.

His takes on the mercantilism of Germany are among the best, and by far the clearest. Bill Mitchell had some great pieces on it as well, but Blyth's capacity for facilitating understanding of these concepts is on a different level entirely.

So do I disagree with him on parts of his economic analysis? Yes, but only on the fringes where MMT/functional finance is concerned.

Check out the companion talk to his book:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQuHSQXxsjM

And a recent bit:
https://youtu.be/vGiHiZyKuAE?t=43m2s (juicy, this one)

enoch said:

ok....i come to you for your opinion on my new favorite political scientist.this is the man who predicted brexit and trump,and his ability to depoliticize complex political and economic dynamics is just beautiful.(or maybe i just like the fact that it sounds like i am getting schooled by shrek)

i have watched pretty much every one of his lectures,and i cannot find a flaw in his logic.he appears to have his finger on the pulse of our global economic situation.

but economics has never been my strong suit.i have always struggled with economics.so i come to you,hat in hand,and ask if maybe my adoration is misplaced.

totally worth the time:
https://videosift.com/video/mark-blythe-global-trumpism-lecture

radx (Member Profile)

enoch says...

ok....i come to you for your opinion on my new favorite political scientist.this is the man who predicted brexit and trump,and his ability to depoliticize complex political and economic dynamics is just beautiful.(or maybe i just like the fact that it sounds like i am getting schooled by shrek)

i have watched pretty much every one of his lectures,and i cannot find a flaw in his logic.he appears to have his finger on the pulse of our global economic situation.

but economics has never been my strong suit.i have always struggled with economics.so i come to you,hat in hand,and ask if maybe my adoration is misplaced.

totally worth the time:
https://videosift.com/video/mark-blythe-global-trumpism-lecture

newtboy (Member Profile)

Siftquisition of feature Siftquisition (User Poll by Ornthoron)

How a country slides into despotism (from 1946)

ChaosEngine says...

There were categorically no facts in his post (see the key phrases "I think" and "they seem").

There was no logic or arguments either. Logic and argument come from reasoning based on presented facts.

This might sound petty (it does to me and I'm writing it), but when Post Truth Politics caused Brexit and Trump, words like "facts", "logic" and "reasonable arguments" cannot be thrown around.

Regardless of whether I agree with @Spacedog79 (which I mostly do), what he presented was "opinion", not fact, logic or argument.

enoch said:

oh just STOP with your "facts" and "logic" and your "reasonable arguments".........

President Trump: How & Why...

President Trump: How & Why...

notarobot says...

Looking back on Pie's take on the Brexit vote may be helpful in light of Trump's. There's good discussion there on how the working class has been getting fucked over by years of trickle-down Reaganomics, corporatism, and austerity have played into the UK's vote on Brexit.

The same groups in the US have chosen Trump over Clinton's faux-left elitism.

*related=http://videosift.com/video/Jonathan-Pie-on-Brexit

By contrast, Keith Oberman lists reasons to be outraged by Trump,

http://videosift.com/video/176-Shocking-Things-Donald-Trump-Has-Done-This-Election

which plays well into CGP Grey's theory on memes and anger:

http://videosift.com/video/This-Video-Will-Make-You-Angry-CGP-Grey

Michael Moore take on the election

siftbot says...

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Jonathan Pie on Brexit has been added as a related post - related requested by notarobot.

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by notarobot.



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