I don't think Utah even has medical marijuana yet. They have some really strict liquor/drug laws. It's like the bible belt of the western U.S. Still, absolutely gorgeous for sure.

The USA isn't the worst place to not conform to the standard state religion. ...But it sure as hell isn't the best either.

Growing up atheist (I started identifying myself that way around age 12-13 or so) in the bible belt (Kansas) in the 80's was tough. Not as tough as growing up gay at the same time/place, but I get the feeling that Millennials are miles beyond my generation (late Gen X) in terms of accepting sexuality. I don't think they have made as great strides in accepting atheists / religious differences, but progress has been made there also compared to my day.

About 10 years ago I moved to Thailand. I went from 85-90% Christian USA to 95% Buddhist Thailand. And yet even though I'm in an even smaller minority as an atheist here, it simply isn't an issue at all compared with back in the US. I don't think Christianity itself is to blame for that, because one can comfortably be an atheist in some other countries with rates of self-identifying Christians similar to the US. No, I think it is a cultural problem largely unique to the US. Which certainly contributes to my high level of comfort as an expat.

This is fucking fantastic. I agree with @eric3579, I would love to have this done in the bible belt, or even just in the US.

I'm an American living in Canada; I may very well have to do this myself and see how the Canadians fare.

How i would love to see this done in the bible belt.

My cousin lived in the belt buckle of the Bible Belt.

I said to him once -- I don't know what to say to someone who says that transitional fossils are missing.

He laughed and laughed. "All fossils are transitional."

Boy, did that light up my brain. Ever since, when I read a general science article on the discovery of a new fossil, I think my beloved cousin (now gone) as they say that the fossil record has been changed to reflect the new information.

Evolution isn't disproved by the change, of course.

All fossils are transitional.

(I miss you, Gaylan.)

I actually feel the federal government has a very large role in trying to improve educational standards for the US. A well educated populace benefits everyone. I don't have children but I'll gladly pay taxes to help educate your child, and I feel all children in the country should be given an opportunity to learn the same things.

If all standards were done at the local level, how many places in the bible belt would be teaching all students that the Earth is 6000 years old and AIDs is God's way to punish gay people?

I'm not saying common core is good, nor do I think the federal government should be telling teachers how to teach the subjects, but I do believe the federal government should have a big voice in trying to make sure all children receive a proper education to benefit the entire nation as a whole.

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this is the sour grapes portion of the election folks. we're going to hear more crackpot theories like this and other "theories" on how Obama stole the election

people like BillO (not BillO himself because he's just playing a role like Colbert) are going to continue to grump and whine as the nation moves more and more blue.

Unless the parties fundamentally change, the nation is going to keep going to the left more and more because they want equality for gays, they want equality for women (Republicans lost this election as soon as this became an issue again..WTF reps?) People are sick of beating war drums and they want health care reform.

Red stronghold states will eventually be whittled away until even Texas and the Bible belt go blue. the population of the cities (which tend to lean left) will outstrip the right leaning rural areas.

2016 will be the election to watch. Will Republicans not learn anything and continue driving hard right or will they actually figure out how to take the party back from the nutbags and kick the tea party and the christian fundamentalists to the curb

>> ^qfan:

Side note: Being well respected doesn't mean his views are truth.

Agreed. On the other hand, the unassailable mountains of evidence for evolution means his views (at least on evolution) are truth. Or at least as much as it's possible to have any scientific "truth".


>> ^qfan:

Though yes, perfectly fine to have an opinion. I'm not disputing that.
What's in dispute is that he's telling parents not to share their beliefs with their own children. So we're not only telling creationists they can't share their views publicly in school, we also tell them that they can't share their views in private with their own children. It's extraordinarily dangerous thinking in the free world. These are private people who wish to raise their children with their own values. Bill is publicly preaching to parents (unlike those parents who are privately teaching their children) not to share what they believe in, all the while saying "When you're in love you want to tell the world about it." The man is amazingly hypocritical and sadly without an ounce of realisation about it.

He's not saying parents can't tell their children about creationism, he's saying they shouldn't. You can dance around the issue all you want, and believe in creationism, the tooth fairy or santa claus, but there comes a time when you have to grow up and accept reality. Right now, there's no debate about evolution, simply because there is no valid competing scientific theory that even comes close to matching the evidence. That I have to even spell this out is pretty sad.

>> ^qfan:

He says "We need scientifically literate people...". The thousands of scientists that believe in creation are also literate in science, even in the evolutionary aspects, except they choose not to believe in evolutionary theory. Science is a method. Nothing more, nothing less. Creationists aren't ignoring science at all, they are ignoring evolutionary theory.

There might be "thousands of scientists that believe in creation", but they represent a tiny percentage of the overall scientific community and almost none of them work in relevant fields. You wouldn't ask a plumber about aeronautical engineering, so don't ask a physicist about biology.

And if you ignore evolutionary theory, you are ignoring the science of biology. You are cherry-picking which evidence you accept because it doesn't fit your world view.

>> ^qfan:

Bill says "We need engineers, people that build stuff, solve problems...". The example of Wernher Von Braun puts this point to rest.

I have already conceded that you do not need to understand evolutionary biology to build rockets.

>> ^qfan:

You're confusing a lot of things here. First you say he ignored an area (evolution) that conflicted with his belief "because it didn't affect his work", then go on to say "You can be damn sure he benefited from the study of evolution".

If you're going to quote me, at least do me the courtesy of doing it fully and in context. What I said was:
>> ^ChaosEngine:

You can be damn sure he benefited from the study of evolution though, given it's the backbone of a lot of medical research.


I meant that Von Braun benefited from the study of evolution in the same way that every other human in the developed world did, through better medicines. It didn't really affect his work, but it did affect his life.


>> ^qfan:

Von Braun, "For me, the idea of a creation is not conceivable without invoking the necessity of design,” “It is in scientific honesty that I endorse the presentation of alternative theories for the origin of the universe, life and man in the science classroom. It would be an error to overlook the possibility that the universe was planned rather than happening by chance." http://www.thespacereview.com/article/656/1

So what? He was wrong about evolution. Big deal. Newton was one of the greatest minds of all time and he got time wrong. Science marches on, and I'm confident that Von Braun if he had the time and inclination to really study it, would eventually have accepted the facts of evolution. And if he still chose to ignore the evidence because it didn't fit his world-view, well, that's sad, but it changes nothing about the truth of evolution.

>> ^qfan:

Bill says that denial of evolution is unique to the US (which is already a very questionable statement in itself), then goes on to say that the US is the most technologically advanced nation (with a grudging acceptance that Japan might be slightly ahead). Again, another questionable statement and slightly elitist I might add So if denial of evolution is holding the US back, why is it the most technologically advanced? You could word it another way... denial of evolution and technological advancement do not correlate with one another.


It's not unique to the U.S., but it's more prevalent than any other developed nation. What he's saying is that the U.S. should know better.

Denial of evolution in and of itself is bad, but it's symptomatic of the larger issues of anti-intellectualism and non-rational thought. The people who made the U.S. the most technologically advanced nation are not the same people that believe in a talking snake.

Besides, he's talking about potential. Maybe somewhere in the bible belt the next Alexander Fleming is having their future taken away from them because they are being lied to (intentionally or not) by their parents and/or preachers.

>> ^A10anis:

What is the difference between a "cult" and any other "faith?" There is NO difference. They all take advantage of the weak, desperate, and gullible. They all have leaders who exploit these peoples weaknesses for their own ends. They will all end up consigned to the history class when we realize that education is the key. When you are educated you begin asking questions, which is exactly what these cult leaders want to prevent. Stay stupid and a slave, or get educated and be free.


Why do you think the most conservative and religiously active states, GOP and church leaders actively trying to push critical thinking out of their schools. Texas openly moving away from teaching 'higher order education and critical thinking in favor of outcome-based education that focuses on behavior modification'. As well the bible belt has by far the highest per capita rate of home schooling. Keep your kids uneducated and you keep them religiously indoctrinated and voting republican.

I've said it before I'll say it again. I blame the puritans!