Beautiful words. Lets make this guy President.

"It's the most beautiful word in the English language. It's a fucking complex word too, with fucking so many fucking nuances, even more than the word 'fuck'" And then he talks about Baa'bra's cunt.

This guy is amazing!

I think people need to start saying Fuck You to everyone. Eventually, it'll just turn into a nice non-offensive little greeting. Remember that spiel that teacher gave? Fuck is one of the most beautiful words in the english language; this guy should be delighted!

>> ^xxovercastxx:

I think it's more of a philosophical issue than one of semantics, though there's definitely a semantic component.
...
There are probably many logical conclusions that you could take my premise to, but I do not take it to the particular one you insist is required.

That's why I'm saying the issue I'm raising is largely a semantic quibble. I don't think you mean what you're saying. I think you mean to say something close to, but not exactly what you said.

I think you meant to say this:

A totalitarian system has to break the will of every person trapped inside it before freedom can truly be eradicated. Even then, it seems that eventually it springs up anew in people, sometimes it just takes a little longer than others.

>> ^xxovercastxx:
To say one has freedom of speech doesn't mean there are no repercussions for speaking freely. If I go downtown and start screaming racial obscenities, I'm probably going to get my ass kicked (and rightfully so). That doesn't change the fact that I can do that if I want to.

True, but the threat of those repercussions constrain you from acting as you would like to. To draw on the Babylon 5 clip above, they told him to submit, or die. He was already locked in a cell. He'd already been tortured. He'd been beaten. Starved. Deprived of sleep. Poisoned. They even threatened his father's life. The lives of everyone he'd ever loved. In the end, they threatened his own life. They even staged a mock execution, and only at the last second...they just started over at the beginning, as if nothing had happened.

Had he submitted, would you consider his freedom stolen, or surrendered willingly?

>> ^xxovercastxx:
Understand that, in this context, I'm talking about freedom as in our 'self-evident', 'inalienable rights'. Clearly, being imprisoned takes away your physical freedom, but I draw a distinction between that and what I'm talking about. I realize many (most?) people do not.

Yeah, but are they really self-evident? Are they really inalienable? Those were beautiful words, and they were a massively revolutionary sentiment at the time, but it wasn't really a statement of fact about how the universe works. It was a declaration of how things should be, not how they are.

>> ^xxovercastxx:
Or maybe they do. How many people here on VideoSplif are waiting for pot to be legalized so they can have a joint? And how many people light up whenever they feel like it? Do you believe the government has given us the right to smoke pot, or is it a right we've taken?

Since pot is still illegal, it's clearly not a right government has given us. It's also clearly not a right -- I can't demand that I can smoke pot, anywhere, anytime, regardless of how anyone else feels about it. I also can't expect pot to be provided to me, whether I can pay for it or not.

>> ^xxovercastxx:
I disagree that liberals are "pro-freedom" and conservatives are "anti-freedom"; they simply have different definitions of freedom or, at least, different priorities.

I agree with that, and I was phrasing things the way I was more to illustrate those different ideas about freedom than because I'm enslaved by some black and white view of the world.

>> ^xxovercastxx:
What freedoms do you believe have been given to us by government?


For one, property rights only exist as function of government. Otherwise, "property" would just be whatever you could stop other people from taking away from you.

Most "rights" follow a similar pattern, e.g. right of habeas corpus, right to vote, right to a redress of grievances, etc.

As for "freedoms", you are free to change jobs (or quit entirely) because of government. You are free to demand, and expect pay for your labor. You are free to walk around unarmed thanks to the expectation of law enforcement. No one is allowed to force you to do anything, and if they try, the government is expected to stop them.

Government makes it so there is a threat of violence hanging over the head of those who refuse to respect individual freedom, and that's counterbalanced by a strong societal value that if the government stops respect individual freedom, that we have a duty to remove that government.

As I see it, there seem to be powerful people who are hell bent on eroding the laws and traditions that make up that equilibrium. (And yes, I think they largely wield "conservatives" as a blunt instrument to that end, using them like an auto-immune disease to kill government, so they can go back to the good old days of monarchy)

People on the right seem to act like rights and freedom are something they have that can't be taken away. I think that's insane. Without government, your "freedom" will be taken from you before you can say "caveat emptor." Freedom can and has been stolen, all throughout history. If anything we live in an unprecedented golden age of man where freedom is for most intents and purposes is in the hands of the individual, largely because we turned our governments into democratic collective entities charged with creating a society where individuals can expect to be free.

Then, as a professional communicator, he fucking needs to be clear that what he's saying is NOT fact. He does not do that...he tries very hard to present himself and his views as scientific. And that -does- do damage, in the same way and to the same degree that the creationist museum does.

Had he said "Pi is like infinity", or "The irrational nature of pi brings to mind the beauty of the universe" I'd have never said a word. But facts are facts, A is A, and Chopra is flat out wrong (or worse). And he ignores or fails in his duty as a communicator to communicate clearly and honestly.
>> ^peggedbea:

chopra is a snake oil salesman who uses beautiful words and metaphors in a silly nonsensical fashion to bring peace to people's minds. those words are metaphorical, beautiful and symbolic. that exploit a popular lack of mathematical or scientific understanding and a craving for something comforting.
the question is... is it doing any real harm?
i see the beauty in relating pi to the infinite. and the beauty of metaphorical souls. it's gorgeous and symbolic and hopeful and scientifically inaccurate. but is it doing any harm? chopra is not responsible for the failings of math and scientific education. i can appreciate scientific fact and mathematical constants AND spiritual metaphors.
we learn about mythology, fiction and poetry in school too. a humanities education is just as important. we don't have to be so accurate and measured all the time. we need metaphor.
people should just be more aware of when they're hearing facts and when they're hearing symbolism.

chopra is a snake oil salesman who uses beautiful words and metaphors in a silly nonsensical fashion to bring peace to people's minds. those words are metaphorical, beautiful and symbolic. that exploit a popular lack of mathematical or scientific understanding and a craving for something comforting.

the question is... is it doing any real harm?

i see the beauty in relating pi to the infinite. and the beauty of metaphorical souls. it's gorgeous and symbolic and hopeful and scientifically inaccurate. but is it doing any harm? chopra is not responsible for the failings of math and scientific education. i can appreciate scientific fact and mathematical constants AND spiritual metaphors.

we learn about mythology, fiction and poetry in school too. a humanities education is just as important. we don't have to be so accurate and measured all the time. we need metaphor.
people should just be more aware of when they're hearing facts and when they're hearing symbolism.

^ Yeah me too, what a beautiful word