“ my solution would be every able bodied Jewish man and woman join the French (or Polish, Russian, British) army and fucking fight…”

I agree that’s the noble thing to do, but I can’t condemn the ones that choose to seek safety in numbers with Jewish Palestinians as exclusively invasion minded aggressors. My 6 million tag was maybe a bit sharp, but you also know that the Nazi’s took Paris and as much as it sucked to be French or European under Nazi occupation, you also know adding Jewish to that carried a lot of extra consequence and danger to your family.

My POV is agnostic of everything save Isreali people today having a right exist as a nation. Which at this point from my POV leaves 1947 as somewhat academic.

It’s your insistence that Jewish people, and the existence of Israel, have always fundamentally been invaders that I was objecting to as it is so intensely at odds with factual history.

You gave a brief nod on not being a scholar of Palestinian history, but then proceed to just count all Jewish refugees as good as Zionist aggressors from day 1(or close enough), and the local Arab population as nothing but pure, kind caring victims of these invaders.

I will state again, that is ahistorical propaganda and NOT what actually happened. And for my POV, its enough generations back as to be Academic, but for your POV it is fundamental because without being able to writeoff Israel as invaders from day 1, nuance enters the calculus and suddenly the conflict is flooded with shades of grey because lots of parties all contribute to the bloodshed, and many with reasonable motivations from both sides yet too.

Please find me any reputable sources to refute the reality of 1920-1940s Palestine:
-Mass Jewish immigration fleeing European oppression raised tensions between Jewish and Arab Palestinians.(as one must expect)
-Arab palestinians were already chaffing and resisting British colonial rule(as one must expect)
-These tensions led conflict, initially more ‘civil’ with the Arab majority trying to refuse all business, sales and trade with all Jews.
-Escalation followed throughout that time, but in drips and drops and NOT a ‘surprise the Zionist army has arrived’! style of aggression

The violent escalation was a fight here, a beating there. Little individual fights, escalating into deaths. Retaliations slowly grew, with each side exchanging small escalations.

-the culmination of this was eventually all out civil war, and the Jewish side immediately accepting a UN mandated 2 state solution

-this culmination coinciding with the end of WW2 and revelations of the true extent of the holocaust can’t be ignored, it certainly shaped the Jewish mindset in the conflict.

-Their mindset was pretty clearly not inaccurate either, as the immediate response of all neighbouring Arab nations was a declaration of war on the new ‘state’, with bold claims of how quickly the Jews would be swept into the sea. The confidence was so high, a call was sent it for ALL Arab palestinians to abandon and flee the entire region of Palestine to better enable the complete cleansing of the land.

The above is all pretty much inarguably factual, and I’d bargain you could get an Arabic and Israeli scholar together to more or less agree on those facts which is saying alot.

——
Propaganda from both sides would like to declare that the Arabs harboured deep Nazi sympathies, and thus Israel was pure and true in all it did. Or from the other side, more or less your narrative of Zionist bad guys launching invasion from day 1(ish).

Both though are just sprinklings of half truths, with anti-British resentment naturally breeding some leanings towards the axis, and even genuine Nazi cleanse the Jews believers. And absolutely Zionists featured prominently within the Jewish population. Neither of those partial truths though make the propaganda of either side true, but instead just an incomplete and intentionally biased picture.


Again, please find me sources demonstrating I’m terribly wrong on all that, but the only ones I can find are clearly biased and the accurate accounts paint the picture above, the propaganda very, very clearly copies the real story more or less with just deletions of inconvenient bits

Edit: I misunderstood …. When you flee to somewhere you aren’t welcome, you invaded. That’s not characterization, it’s definition. If my home isn’t safe so I force my way into yours, I invaded your home…even if my friend down the street said it was ok.
It’s not a legitimate motive to invade a foreign country and murder, subjugate, and ghettoize its inhabitants because you aren’t safe where you live. There is no legitimate motive for those actions.

I think you take great liberty deciding the “Arab narrative”. That may be the Hamas narrative, it’s not the Palestinian’s history, and I think few claim it is. At first they were and acted like refugees, welcomed by Arab natives, some of which were Jews themselves, then shortly after began exponentially increasing immigration to overpower the natives, coming armed. They had no right to take by force food, shelter, and safety from those who had offered it to a much smaller portion of needy Jews…they in fact had an obligation to do the exact opposite and minimize their impact on their TEMPORARY HOSTS, and ensure their benefactors didn’t suffer for their generosity. This was not even a fleeting thought for the invaders.

The violent Zionists were intentionally courted and invited then supported and encouraged by those you say were “getting along”, so your point is misguided.

That native population was displaced by a concerted effort to forcibly immigrate en masse and seize control. The natives eventually balked, but too late and the overwhelming masses of armed violent Jewish invaders took over.

I’m in a camp that doesn’t give a shit about religion, they’re all idiotic nonsense, but believes in law and order, and invading people seizing control by force and dehumanizing the natives is not a thing I’m prepared to gloss over or erase with one sided details. I don’t gloss over my own country’s inhumane origins of genocidal racism against our natives, and I support any measure that returns anything they’ve been stripped of.

I’m also in a camp that doesn’t think it’s ok to murder and rape Peter to pay Paul for Patrick’s bill. The Palestinians bear zero responsibility for Jews treatment in Europe. None.

I’m also in a camp that believes “refugee” means you are a guest until you can return home, not a new citizen with more rights than natives.

The European Jews there are invaders acting terribly unreasonably, they’re very Trumpian in their actions, any slight against them is an excuse to go full bore Hitler against those kids with rocks.

I don’t “just declare invasion”. It was an invasion.
Foreign people came unwanted and illegally into the country and took over by force. That’s called an invasion in English by most definitions, and an invasion it was.
The forceful invaders are ALWAYS the bad guys, the oppressors are ALWAYS the bad guys, the expansionists are ALWAYS the bad guys. That describes all the Israeli people. They are the bad guys, whether they intended to be or not.

"Who the fuck cares what the reason they wanted to invadeflee was?"

Characterization matters a little here, no?

"They had a right to refugee status there, not to take control and possession by force"

Which is at the heart of things.

The Arab narrative is that Jews arrived guns loaded and set about pillaging, killing and invading as soon as they had sufficient numbers, while the poor domestic Arab population had only been trying to assist and welcome in the refugees...

Which is ahistorical propaganda.

The reality is that for the most part, the European Jews arriving in Palestine were refugees and acting like refugees. Meaning they mostly just wanted to be able to provide food, shelter and safety for the families, just like everyone else. Most of them tried to set about doing this by legally purchasing land.

Lots of the local Arabs similarly were content to get along.

At that same time though, there were hardcore Zionists among the Jewish arrivals AND there were xenophobic elements willing to use violence within the Arab population too.

The tensions rose as the populations rose, but largely as a result of a large people being displaced, and NOT as the planned invasion you describe. The local Arab population started to band together to refuse to work, trade or sell to Jews. Violence broke out instigated separately on smallish scales by BOTH sides. Escalating violence followed, again back and forth between sides.

I'm in a camp that has a hard time blaming either the domestic Arab population for distress at the huge influx of refugees, nor for the European Jewish people having a low tolerance for discrimination and violence directed there way solely for being Jewish.

I see it as a huge mess, but with two large populations of Jewish and Arab people in Palestine acting not terribly unreasonably under circumstances of extreme pressure.

I think it's lazy and convenient to just declare 'invasion' so that you can simplify it all down to right/wrong and good guy/bad guy....

Yes. What’s your point? You seem to agree with me, except you go back to the 20’s instead of early 30’s. I’m not a Palestine scholar, sorry if I get details or dates slightly wrong, sources vary on many points. It doesn’t change my point, that under British rule European Jews were allowed to immigrate in huge numbers despite opposition from the native population that was being overwhelmed by increasing unwanted forced immigration. At first it was accepted even encouraged by the empathetic natives, but quickly became an overwhelming unwanted invasion of people intent on taking over, not some moderate number of refugees looking for temporary refuge.

Who the fuck cares what the reason they wanted to invade was? Palestinians weren’t responsible for their plight, but still stood ready to help until invaded and subjugated harshly by the invaders.
Should Venezuelans be allowed to take over Pennsylvania because they want out of Venezuela for good reason? Or Chinese? Or any African? Or Central American? Certainly Haitians have it bad enough to make it ok to take a state for themselves! Yes, Europe was dangerous…for anyone. That’s not an excuse to invade, murder another person and steal their land and subjugate their descendants for decades, but that’s what they did…and what you’re attempting to excuse.

Well, that explains it then. You think because the Jews had it worse once, it excuses being the Nazis today. I do not, I believe it gives them more reason to never be anything like the Nazis, not emulate them. The Palestinian plight is worse than many Jews in Europe besides Poland or Germany. They’re already in the ghetto, not free to travel and maybe get out. They’re already oppressed, subjugated, starved, dehydrated, often without power or communications, and 100% under the thumb and control of their oppressors. Sounds pretty shitty to me. Your family murdered at a whim with no repercussions sounds pretty bad. Your ancestral home taken by force and family shot for existing sounds fairly bad. I’m not sure how you think it’s OK because someone else maybe had it worse once.

When they “arrived in Palestine”, it was as an illegal unwanted invasion intent on taking over and expelling or eradicating the native population. They deserved violence 100%. The population was doing more than their share accepting refugees, then for their humanity was invaded and dehumanized in their own country. No excuse can make that acceptable unless it had happened in Germany post war.

Yes, Jews were the bad guys, invading a land they had and have no right to. You got it! They didn’t even have a right to refugee status there, it was a gift, they absolutely had no right to take control and possession by force, nor to become the inhuman monsters they were fleeing in Northern Europe.

Absolutely not. What even was his plan, I ask you. It wasn’t securing the borders.

I support the plan to FUND border parol and immigration courts to not only secure the border but repair the immigration process that does not function today. With a functioning immigration process, most would use it, making stopping illegal entry much easier.

I support refugee camps in the East Texas desert, not open release before processing.

I absolutely do not support actual open borders, nor allowing other countries to just send plane and train and boatloads of unvetted people in in numbers that would make natives the minority in quick fashion, nor do I support returning Texas (including Oklahoma, Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming, and New Mexico) to the Mexicans even though they are fleeing near the same level of fear, oppression and death from narco gangs and have some hereditary claims (which European Jews did not, they were mostly not Semitic genetically). I disagree the circumstances were much more desperate in the 30’s outside of Germany, and I disagree that the choices are Trumpism or no-border free-for-alls.

"welcomed a relatively small number of European Jewish refugees in the 30’s while under British rule"
The Jewish population in Palestine approximately doubled from 84k in 1922 to 175k in 1931, and tensions already started pretty heavily then in 1931. The Arab narrative is pretty emphatic that the invasion start in the 1920s(and unspoken, the resistance and tension internally between Jew and Arab too).


"Then in the 40’s the Jewish minority, America, and England ignored their pleas to minimize immigration, ignored immigration laws, and invited a major invasion, so many European Jews came illegally..."

Come now, don't play dumb, you left out any reason why European Jews might do this outside of 'launching an invasion'. What other motive might 1940's Jewish Europeans have had to ignore immigration laws to migrate out of Europe????


That's where your narrative and mine clash irrevocably. I count the refugee flight from 1940s Europe to be even more desperate than the plight the Palestinians in Gaza face today. I can not accept your POV where upon arriving in Palestine and facing violence and discrimination there too, that it's just plain and simply obvious that the Jewish people's are invaders and bad guys with no right to an existence in the land they fled to.

You know, unless you want to credit Trump's MAGA approach to the southern border as valid cause it's awful similar, save that the Jewish people were facing much more desperate circumstances

Yes, agreed, the fake elector scheme to steal the presidency was BS. Just like the election fraud fraud was BS, and the attempted coup was BS, like the effort to have the military seize voting machines then declare Trump the winner was BS. Like all the fake house hearings with all their disgraced fake whistleblowers that are in fact Chinese spies or convicted seditionists in prison for assaulting congress or disgraced ex fbi agents mad they were fired for serious causes (like sharing/selling classified/secured information or refusing to serve legitimate warrants or threatening other agents) and paid by Kash Patel to lie are BS. Pretty much everything the MAGgot party has tried since losing the election in a mega-slide in 2020 has been BS…and nobody is buying any of it. Not one person has heard MAGgots whining in the last 2.5 years and thought “hmmmm…they’re right! There’s no way anyone would be prosecuted for theft of hundreds of top secret super sensitive documents and showing them directly to Chinese agents, or for trying multiple plots to illegally subvert the election and steal the presidency, or decades of tax evasion, or repeated slander and libel, or (etc. etc. etc), and their Chinese spy said Hunter is a bad guy…I’m now on team Trump.” The denials, poo pooing, whataboutism, attempts to distract, false accusations, etc are 100% for you, the cultists. No one else believes a word, we don’t even believe you believe it, you just have nothing else to try in Trump’s defense (Neither do his lawyers!) and can’t, under any circumstances, ever admit you’ve been w-w-w-wrong. “BS”….HA! How’s that theory working out for you?

No, just like the fake electors, if you sign a license you got in a (the phrase is) Crackerjack box and sign it, you aren’t legit to drive, and just like the fake electors that used their crackerjack box elector status when they signed affidavits stating they were the official electors knowing they were not, if you tried to use it it’s a crime…and like the RNC is, Crackerjack would be in deep shit for producing fake licenses….and like Trump if you tried to hire them and knowingly use their fake licenses as real for his benefit, like driving his fleet of trucks or stealing an election which Trump undeniably tried in multiple ways, each time you do it is a felony. That’s 84 more felonies for Trump.
So….what was your point? That the electors Trump knowingly tried to fraudulently use to steal the presidency weren’t legit? Um…yeah, sure, OK….so just BS. 🤦‍♂️
The courts are unanimously disagreeing, including those Trump appointed.
Sure, another nothing burger…because massive election fraud and attempted overturning a valid election are nothing when your guy does it, but the imagined fraud of not allowing illegal and illicit revenge porn of a political rival’s family member to be part of Trump’s public Twitter campaign is the biggest election fraud ever and means Biden isn’t president, so by default Trump now is. 🤦‍♂️
you’re so delusional and indoctrinated you think that last sentence is perfectly reasonable and rational.

Yes, any and every patriotic American is interested in prosecuting any man who tried multiple times to steal the presidency including by multiple frauds and at least once by force…so leftists are going after these seditious and treasonous crimes but not anyone on the right is interested. Understand?

How you like Manly Traitor Greene’s Biden for President commercial? 😂

Your video, VLDL: Playing a bad guy is hard., has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

Sure sounds like you got suckered again, mr gullible. Tricked into spreading more blatantly false Russian propaganda, again….unless you weren’t tricked and spread it intentionally, which is just as believable as you being as gullible as you act.

Yep, another totally moronic conspiracy theory spawned by Russia and spread by idiot righties totally 100% debunked…as expected….now what? Retraction? Never. Correction? Never. Just moving on to the next idiotic lies you can spout pretending you weren’t caught in the last 37 you tried? Sic simper.

Literally everything this liar Seymour Hersh claimed has been PROVEN conclusively to not only be false, but actually impossible. For instance, the plane he claimed dropped the sonobouy to trigger the non existent American charges is mothballed and hasn’t flown under its own power for a decade, can’t fly missions when it can’t fly…the mine sweepers and other military vessels were not in the area when he needs them to be for his theory to make any sense, proven public knowledge from ship trackers, and his sources are anonymous, unvetted, supposition, and just ridiculous….and mirror exactly the Kremlin’s ridiculous position/claims from the day after the pipeline was destroyed while surrounded by the Russian navy.
Makes sense you bought it, it is stupid and anti America. Right up your treasonous moronic alley.
Sucker, they sold you another anti American lie and you paid double for it. One more in an endless stream of anonymous sourced Russian propaganda pieces you choose to believe over verifiable facts….anything to make America the bad guy and Russia the innocent victim.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-nato-united-states-baltic-sea-b837ae25021807a3caef4aa3043a8013

“ Seymour Hersh’s story would have been a lot harder to pull apart, had he decided to be more sparing with the details instead of going into depth with meaningless details that make little sense. A simpler story could have been believable, but this piece of Tom Clancy fan fiction is subpar. “
- OLIVER ALEXANDER

Holy bat shit Robin,
They caught the bad guy who tried to murder Pelosi and her husband.

Big surprise, his Facebook posts look EXACTLY like the stupid debunked nonsense you post constantly. Election denial, covid denials, Jan 6 denials, accusations that the Jan 6 bipartisan committee is “one sided”, idiotic memes, random conspiracy theories, and videos of Chump and Mikepillow.

Possibly the headquarters burglary was a random break in by a moron too dumb to know there’s nothing to steal there and not politically motivated (but still political nonetheless), highly unlikely but possible, but the attempted assassination was definitely more MAGA terrorism from typical everyday magots just like you.

Party of (this time just attempted) death, destruction, and debauchery, with more examples every single day, fool.

I think the right has never learned this truism….
Friedrich Nietzsche - Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

You created false monsters to fight, now you are monsters.
You created an abyss of fantasy conspiracy theories to cudgel the left with, and they became your belief system.

Holy Cat Shit Robin

The caught the bad guy.
Dos Reis

Are real Watergate break in kind of guy.

Definitely Kari lake behind this NOT.

Guy looks more like a homeless guy than and operative.

Can't you just wait for a fact before you post 1/2 a story pushing a possible fake narrative ?

God you are gullible.

Ever consider they are reacting to how they’ve seen police act in their communities, they see police as aggressive bad guys because they act that way? No, you jump to the racist, black people can’t raise their children trope.

“ We are practically a different species at this point.” “ No practically about it. And it was always that way.”
“ There's a N' problem”. “ And no one can say out loud because it's considered racist.”
“ "human"”. “Human (laughing crying emoji)”
“ It’s not the culture man, if it were culture there would be some difference in how they turn out in different parts of the world. From the uk to the USA to Australia to Africa it’s always the same story”
“ There’s a “I have too many kids and I don’t raise them” problem in the USA.”
“Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I don't claim to know. But for every Clarence Thomas, Walter Williams, or Thomas Sowell, there are 20,000 George Floyds or Austin Simons.”
“ If you think this is bad you should see how they talk to females.”

Or to you, “no raciest statements “…
…but you don’t think saying “I'm baffeled as to why people insist these creatures can live on equal terms with humans.” When you’re talking about black people is racist, just “iffy”.

I don’t blind myself to racism, you drape yourself in it and deny it exists.

Oh Bob. Another cry for help? More “I’m rubber, you’re glue”? Really, friend. It’s ok to seek psychiatric support. I know it’s terrifying your reality is crumbling and you’re realizing you supported a fascist traitor to America, and that everything you believed for 6 years is nonsense at best…but there’s help.

Not what I meant…because it was promised by the British long before WW2…as if it was really theirs to gift. Then they half assed the handoff and just walked away, at least that’s my take. It wasn’t handed to anyone as reparations…I know that.

The Palestinians have bled for that land at least 10 fold the amount Israeli have….just sayin.

I meant in a practical and ethical sense it would have made more sense for them to take part of Germany as actual reparations.

What I mean is the military equipment and funding we gifted them, and continue to gift them, without which they would have been destroyed in the 50’s.

Yes, in the 50’s through 80’s the Arab world was an obstacle to peace at least as much as Israel, but not so much recently….Iran being the main exception. The fact that the Arab world is at least 3 generations of military equipment behind means they aren’t a serious threat and haven’t been since America started defending them in the 50’s.

When they, as a people, invade a recently sovereign land and take it by force, then brutally subjugate the natives in the name of their safety for decades while expanding into their last remaining holdings constantly, all the while playing the victim, I’m 100% prepared to say the Jewish invaders are the bad guys….that’s anyone not granted refugee status by the Palestinians….likely over 99%. The refugees that didn’t take part in the violent bloody nation grab and subjugation and who went back home I do not blame.
.