do they have an altar-boy version?

@shinyblurry

You brought up my atheism and then started defining it. I'm telling you you're defining it wrong. It's really on you to do the minimum research and Google "weak atheism" to find the definition before telling me I'm wrong.

About the apple pie and logic. You're twisting words around and not following logic at all. According to formal logic, the logical opposite of "I believe apple pie tastes good", is, "It is not the case that I believe apple pie tastes good." A person who didn't know if apple pie tasted good would be justified in making that statement. So, it is not the case that I believe God exists.

If you really didn't know, you wouldn't believe *or* disbelieve in God. You would be neutral to the existence of God.

Not taking a firm 100% stance doesn't entail I have no opinion or guesses one way or the other. I may be suspending judgement until I feel I have sufficient evidence. My best guess is that the Biblical God doesn't exist. You still haven't given me a strong statement that I could possibly provide proof for. Find my words, quote them to me, and ask me to prove them. Don't just go claiming that I've taken a negative position.

First, you presume that all spiritual experience is a trick of the mind.

I certainly do not presume that. What I presume is that a. there are other people who have numinous experiences, b. they associate them with different religions, and c. they are just as sure they're real an accurate as you are. Do you disagree with any of those presumptions? I conclude logically from that that these people cannot all be correct in their interpretation. From that I conclude that it's possible you are one such person.

My faith isn't based on feelings, it is based on the action of God in my life. Many times I did not have the feelings, but God provided the evidence.

Could you tell me what this evidence was besides the communication in your head that told you he's controlling every atom?

God is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient, and there are certain things only He can do.

Name three things that only God can do. How do you know no other entities can do those things?

Ask Jesus to throw you a bone. Say to Him, Jesus, if you are real I will serve you. Please show me evidence that you are who you say you are. If you are sincere about serving Him, I have no doubt He will respond. He said knock and the door will open.

Been there, done that. Didn't work. Everybody in my family grew up with very strong faith. We prayed, went to church, sang in the choir, served as altar boys, did the readings, donated, attended Sunday school, received the Sacraments, studied the bible at home, and discussed the nature of God. My sister worked for a Christian organization. But none of us ever received any kind of signal that we were on the right track. Two of my sisters lost faith and left the church, then I did, then my other sister. My parents also slowed their attendance and even stopped going for a while. I've talked with them about it, and they varyingly say either they don't really believe any more, but the ritual feels good; or that it's "the right thing" to go to church. So, where was Jesus for my whole family? My parents have both given over 70 years to Jesus with not a peep back. I was faithful from birth until I noticed that I had never ever felt Jesus's presence and wondered if it was all fake. I don't remember what or how I asked, but I did ask Jesus to show himself. And that was when I actually believed in him. He didn't show himself, so I gradually lost faith, became comfortable with my lack of faith, and left the church.

Next they'll try to make me feel bad for even having sex in the first place!!!

Oh wait...
WAIT

NEXT they'll try to make me feel bad for jerking off!!!

oh wait...
wait...

NEXT NEXT NEXT they'll try to make me feel bad for even thinking about women, you know want me to really get involved with the church and stay celibate to the point that I'm driven to molest altar boys!!!

oh wait...
Oh well, start up the blender I guess.

"Father, could you help an old altar boy?"

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

"It builds character" has been used by the conservative old-guard to apologize for everything from work houses for the poor to pedophiliac altar boy duty. You know what builds character? The gladiator ring. >> ^RedSky:

I mean more the sense of character it develops, ie resolving conflict, standing your own ground, working in teams, basically the kind of attitude that allows you to survive in a dog eat dog world. You could say that being home schooled still allows you to socialise and develop these same skills, but compared to the kids who spend 6 and a half hours, 5 days a week doing it at the least, they'll still be at a disadvantage.>> ^dag:
If my job entailed sitting in a room with 35 other 41 year olds, while being lectured by someone much older- for most of the day, I would probably slit my wrists. I don't see how the artificial, forced school environment prepares people for anything but a life a drudgery.
>> ^RedSky:
But isn't that a better reflection of general working life and outside-school society in general? Unless you are able to get a job where you are wholly or mostly self-sufficient, you'll have to face this reality eventually.

It's not possible to demonstrably show that some being is watching over us toting up everything we do with a fiery torment in store for us if we don't meet his arbitrary rules (belief/good life/forgiveness for sins, check, go to heaven).

Morality is an interesting thing, it mutates depending on your point of view. So while priests can sodomise altar boys and pray for forgiveness (and apparently be assured of their place in the sweet hereafter), aetheist doctors can spend their entire lives giving sight to those who cannot see (a true miracle in my opinion) will go to hell (case in point, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hollows).

Using fear of an invisible being and a hypothetical 'lake of fire' to force people to be good is not moral, it's putting a spiritual gun to your souls head to coerce you. Whether you're respectfully fearful of that or shit scared is irrelevant.

>> ^dbarry3:
So it is not possible to "demonstrably show" the differences from morality and immorality? You sure about that? And please tell me which government in the history of the world has not warranted some level of fear, respectful fear or hysterical fear? Any entity with such authority should be respectfully feared

AN ITALIAN BOY'S CONFESSION


'Bless me Father, for I have sinned.
I have been with a loose girl'.

The priest asks, 'Is that you, little Joey Pagano ?'

'Yes, Father, it is.'

'And who was the girl you were with?'

'I can't tell you, Father.. I don't want to ruin her reputation'.

"Well, Joey, I'm sure to find out her name sooner or later
so you may as well tell me now. Was it Tina Minetti?'

'I cannot say.'

'Was it Teresa Mazzarelli?'

'I'll never tell.'

'Was it Nina Capelli?'

'I'm sorry, but I cannot name her.'

'Was it Cathy Piriano?'

'My lips are sealed.'

'Was it Rosa DiAngelo, then?'

'Please, Father, I cannot tell you.'

The priest sighs in frustration.
'You're very tight lipped, and I admire that.
But you've sinned and have to atone.
You cannot be an altar boy now for 4 months.
Now you go and behave yourself.'

Joey walks back to his pew,
and his friend Franco slides over and whispers,
'What'd you get?'

'Four months vacation and five good leads

I thought The One was elected to be US President, not an altar boy for the Thugnited Nations.

He'll look quite the fool when Israel bombs the crap out of a most deserving Iran.

FedEx Pope: When you absolutely positively have to get altar boy porn overnight.

I wish these scientists would have the REAL smack-downs ready!

Evolution IS up for debate! If you can bring a single shred of hard evidence that contradicts evolutionary theory, any scientist would LOVE to publish that and become instantly famous. The problem is that all the evidence fits into the theory of evolution!

And I would even agree that there is a place in the classroom to teach the gaps in the theory. Like how life first came together, what made those amino acids first begin to form? There are people working on that issue, but there is no consensus yet. And discussing it may just inspire students to become scientists and look for the answer themselves. Discussing gaps in the fossil record may inspire new paleontologists. There are plenty of things science doesn't have nailed yet, and having a logical discussion of those things could inspire people to figure them out.

But telling kids that "God is the reason" does just the opposite. It stifles curiosity and investigative thinking. It could tip the balance for a child from becoming a scientist to becoming a mindless drone who accepts what they are told. And that's where you can see the real agenda here.

Once again, the liars are taking what they do and assigning it to their opposition. They claim scientists are stifling argument, when that is really what religion does best. And now that their brain-drain is finally being pushed out of the classroom, they are pissed! If people start thinking for themselves, who is going to give 10% of their income to the church? That steady supply of fresh altar boys may dry up! They might have to get real jobs and start actually... working, eww!

At least we have a Video Sift post that cannot be Godwined.

Why have a vote about gay marriage? Why not just take the Bible literally and stone gays to death? Wouldn't that be simpler than going to rallies and shouting for incoherent rants about Hitler?

They don't want gay marriage, because the Catholic priests will think about marrying all of the altar boys they've molested. And God, in his finite wisdom, has decided that this is totally "Hitler-uncool."

The crusades and the inquisition are just the first things that come to mind. Some churches have contributed to a lot of ills more recently in the last 100 years, such as complicity and cooperation with Nazi Germany and fascist Italy, molestation of thousands of altar boys, opposing the use of condoms (thereby causing faster population growth and more malnutrition and poverty), and delaying the apology for the treatment of Galileo until 1993. Millions of people are going to die of AIDS or starvation because of the pope's ridiculous and unjustifiable opposition to the use of condoms.

Demetri cannot be stopped.

Interesting Demetri Martin story:

"The son of a Greek Orthodox priest (note: Orthodox priests can marry prior to ordination) and a nutritionist, Martin grew up with his brother and sister in Toms River, New Jersey. His parents co-owned a Greek diner with his grandparents and uncle. Martin, the prototypical good Greek boy, served as an altar boy at church and bused tables at the restaurant. He studied maniacally and, to his delight of his family, received a full scholarship to the New York University School of Law. After completing his second year, however, he said, Fuck it. Im going to be a stand-up comedian.

My wife and I argue about whether it is "more ballsalicious" or "less ballsalicious" to drop out of a top-tier law school after your second year to do open-mike nights in NJ.

For more, see http://www.believermag.com/issues/200602/?read=interview_martin