This thread is exactly like the entire issue: One Big Fucking Joke. The GOP will never take away abortion rights in this country, so anyone who considers themselves anti-abortion better get used to it, or do the only thing you can, which is bombing abortion clinics and assassinating doctors.

And please stop using the "pro-life" moniker. It's false. It's a lie. Everyone is "pro-life". Some are "anti-choice", and others are "pro-choice".

If you were to examine my psychological makeup, you would find that I am an idealist, who favors aspects of both liberal and conservative ideologies. I'm a firm believer in freedom of speech and I do not believe in affirmative action. I don't believe in Christianity, nor any organized religion. I am a gun owner (several in fact). I don't believe the rich should get tax breaks and also don't believe they should be taxed more heavily on their income. I do believe that people should help one another. I am a proud American, yet I don't feel the need to judge people solely on if they have a flag on their lapel, or sticking out of their ass.

However, when discussing my views I have found that conservatives tend to paint me as a liberal rather than the other way around. It's my belief that conservatives are more aggressive, while liberals tend to have a live and let live attitude. Abortion clinics are bombed, homosexuals are accosted and murdered and an entire "news" network is devoted to bashing a political ideal. Yet when have you seen a gun store burned to the ground solely because they sold guns? And I have yet to see any lynching parties go out and hang a group of "rednecks". Yes, Olbermann bashes Fox Commentary, but his is one show, not an entire network.

And yes, these are examples from the fringe. I recognize that my opinions stem most likely from run-ins with those conservatives on the fringe. I do recognize that not all conservatives fall under the shadow of the above opinions. That is blatantly obvious to anyone who critically thinks about it. It's also obvious as day-to-day, we don't see society collapsing into a political civil war.

It does not surprise me in the least that this happened...and will continue to happen. It also makes me wonder what percentage of violent offenders are conservative as opposed to liberal.

As for this douchebag who shot up the church. Just another example of someone who can't take responsibility for their own shortcomings and would rather project his own weaknesses onto them, that way he can feel justified in his actions. The smart, correct and manly thing to do would have been to realize that he was responsible for his own misfortune (ie. couldn't land a job) and either 1) adapt and change or 2) off himself. Of course, I would prefer for anybody in his situation to take first approach. But if he/she can't, then do the world a favor and remove yourself from the running rather than others.

The first amendment has been evaluated by the supreme court on numerous occasion in the last 75 years. It has evolved in its interpretation as to what free speech really means and what limits free speech bears. Obviously if McCain rented the property, she could be asked to leave, and failure to leave could result in arrest for trespassing. But would she have a right to protest under any circumstance?

NO, because time PLACE and manner are all very important. There are limits to when where and how you can say just about anything. I can say obscene things all I want in my home, but saying them in a public place would lead to my arrest. In this case her protest put her in close proximity to those she protest against. If I were mccain and trying to avoid a lawsuit because someone at my event assaulted a protester, I would certainly remove the protester. Abortion clinics are open to the public but your conduct must comply with the wishes of the property owner, ie you can't take your dead baby sign into the lobby.

If this were city property that was rented out to a private interest (which it was, read the link above to the news article) those same rules apply. The city is certainly entitled to rent out property to private groups. And those groups can selectively choose who may enter them. For example, I could rent that same location and make "white males only" as a requirement for attendance. There is nothing illegal about that. Racist sexist and immoral, but not illegal. Do you find it odd that they brought a video camera to record the expulsion from the event? I don't, they knew in advance they would be asked to leave this event. Do you generally go to events designed for people you disagree with and not expect conflict?

I haven't seen the KKK at any Obama rally's, for a similar reason I would guess. I am definitely not a klan member, but It would be interesting to put on the garb and record what happened to me when I went to the rally. I could make an internet video and create a buzz about how the communist liberals don't respect my rights and completely ignore the fact it was a private event with conditional requirement for attendance. It would be similar to this video I expect with the exception the posts would be about communist instead of fascist.

Farhad, as far as I see it, the issue of whether or not a fetus constitutes a human life is the core of the whole issue. Everything else is secondary if you can't agree on whether you're killing someone or not. I think there are some interesting arguments on both sides, and some of the same accusations fly back and forth. Pro-abortionists say the anti-abortionists don't want to take responsibility for the children they fight to have born. Anti-abortionists say Pro-Abortion parents don't want to take responsibility for the children they created. The inconvenience argument flys at both sides, as pointed out by Smibbo. Speaking from a Christian perspective, I think there is a life in there being cut short. Religion shouldn't determine government policy, but this enters a gray area surrounding when life begins. That exits the realm of religion and enters the protection of human life. You also have cases which confuse the issue where murderers are tried for double homicide when killing a pregnant woman. In regards to aborting to prevent living in poor conditions, it's not our job to be the judge of whether conditions are too terrible for the child or not. Being born into poverty doesn't mean you would be better off dead.

I don't stand outside abortion clinics waving a torch and pitchfork around calling for the death of doctors, nor do I write to any government officials calling for it's ban. I just don't agree with it. I would fight against something like partial-birth abortion, but that's already banned. Ultimately, my only real involvement is that I would recommend to anyone I know faced with this decision that they should keep the baby, and I would help support them in any way I could.

I'm going to paste in a post I made in another Sift today for time purposes, but it kind of touches on some of the points BRM and I have made in response to Reverend Ted. The original post was a response to someone else at http://www.videosift.com/video/This-Atheists-10-Commandments

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Well, actually there's all sorts of direct examples of, and rules for, slavery, selling ones daughters, racism and genocide all over the Old Testament. And the Koran, well... 72 Virgins (actually a mistranslation of 72 white grapes) are given to suicide bombers in Heaven. And yes, circumcision for both males and especially girls, is mutilation and child abuse, plain and simple.

The point of this post is exactly the point of an argument I had with a friend recently, which boils down to the concept that you cannot have a set morality without religion, which is, frankly, a load of crap. So really, if you can have it without religion and God, then what is religion and God for? Because the morality is really the only useful thing in religion, but it does a piss poor job of actually demonstrating or teaching morality itself. 2 Of the original 10 commandments are wasted on a demand to not warship any other Gods or idols, 1 on not taking His name in vain and yet another on never working on Sunday (under pain of stoning to death). How does that have anything to do with morality? That's merely subjugation to the church. Meanwhile Moses leaves a bloody trail of genocidal destruction in his wake.

The point is, if you are looking for a set of moral teachings, there really isn't any religion that does the job properly. Luckily, we as a species for the most part know that we need each other in order to get by, so we're generally good to each other. But we don't need God.
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So all of that getting together and forming "friendships and communities of mutual support" might be good, as BRM has said, until of course, they start bombing abortion clinics, yelling that "God hates fags" at funerals, sewing up womens genitalia to assure their virginity, killing women for the crime of being raped, killing Jews for being Jews, killing Muslims for being Muslims, killing Christians for being Christians, killing Hindus for being Hindus, killing each other for not worshiping the same God the same way! (That last one was kind of redundant since Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all based on the same God)

yeah, can you wear a fur coat to an abortion clinic?????

This is lame PSA. What is funny is that all these yuppies with their fertility treatments cause they are having babies at 45 yrs old and protest down at the abortion clinics on the weekend types,

they usually implant quite a few embryos to make sure one of them takes. No one is concerned about that. Shouldn't they do them one at a time, so they don't waste any human lives?