Gundam, you must have been watching a different video than everyone else. There were no adults around. The little shit had plenty of time to confront Casey, punch him in the face twice, and then dance around while jabbing at his body. No adult ever came to Casey's aid. He couldn't escape, either. If Casey had run away, the little shit most likely could have easily caught up with him and hit him from behind or tackled him. His first punch was actually pretty damn hard and made Casey's head snap back. A punch like that can do some serious damage, like chipped teeth, a broken nose, lacerations, or even something serious like a jab to the eye or throat. Casey's life may not have been in danger, but he was in very real danger of being sent to the hospital.

Comparing Casey to a douchebag at a bar is ludicrous. All Casey said was that he wasn't talking about the bully. Nothing he said egged the bully on in any way. He didn't act out of humiliation. He withstood two punches to the face and only put up his hands to block punches. He didn't act at all until it because obvious that the assault wouldn't stop. It was obvious that he had no interest in fighting. I think Casey responded with exactly the right amount of force, which is the force required to stop a fight. How would this have been better if they had just traded punches? Are two broken noses somehow better than a broken ankle?

And on that note, this is exactly why zero tolerance policies are horseshit. Casey wasn't breaking any rules until his only choice was to either defend himself or be beaten. What was he supposed to do? He chose the best course of action that he could.

Yeah, I was teased and bullied as a kid.

But violence is not the answer to violence. It's just a perpetual cycle. You know what that bully really learned from this?

1) Pick on people weaker than you.
2) Carry a weapon just in case someone happens to be bigger than you.
3) Safety in numbers--jump your target in a group next time.

You all really think suddenly that kid isn't going to be a bully anymore just because he lost a fight? Maybe he won't bully that particular kid anymore, but the reasons he became a bully in the first place haven't gone away. He needs professional psychological help, not violence--all the violence is going to do is make him feel even more inferior and cause him to take it out on someone else, someone who won't be able to fight back (maybe a future girlfriend).

Yeah, you have a right to defend yourself. If this was out in the woods somewhere where this kid Casey would have no chance of anybody coming to the rescue, then he would have had no choice but to meet the violence head-on in order to try to save himself and run away. But these kids are at school. There are adults everywhere who can intervene. And that kid was not in any way shape or form a life-threatening danger. You can see his punches are so weak they barely have any effect.

Casey could have gotten out of there. But he didn't... he chose to get violent, probably because he felt humiliated. And sadly, in our society we teach people that being humiliated or disrespected is an offense punishable by violence. This is how people get shot outside of clubs and bars because someone was "looking at their girlfriend" or said something that rubbed them the wrong way. This is the kind of society you guys really want to promote? You really want to cheer this kind of behavior on?

"He deserved it."

No, he did not deserve a potentially life-threatening injury. Casey got very, very lucky. That bully could have been maimed for life (dropping someone onto the concrete on their head is known to do that). School made the 100% right call in suspending Casey--that was clearly not the appropriate response to the level of aggression he was faced with and Casey's response is exactly the reason most schools have a zero-tolerance policy for violence: people don't react with equal force in these situations, they react emotionally and wind up doing way more damage than they ever intended. But there's no going back once the damage has been done.

I don't understand the school's decision not to suspend both of them, though. You clearly see who the antagonist is in this video. That kid needs to be punished and also needs help overcoming whatever is driving him to bully other kids in the first place.

Some comments:

1) "Idolators" really doesn't refer to followers of Judaism or Christians. Idolatry was outlawed in the Ten Commandments. That being said, there's a whole lotta bowin' and genuflectin' in the Roman Catholic Church. Still, that's NOT what was meant by 'idolators'. It referred to the pagan/animistic precursors of Islam, and it called for a zero tolerance policy toward those who were not 'people of the book'. So effective was this that there really are none around today.

2) If I read him right, he's calling for Crusade. I mean, all those guys were fighting defensive wars, and they managed to drive the Muslim invasion away from their doorsteps. However, the reason WHY they were fighting in Vienna and Constantinople and Lepanto was that Charles Martel stopped them at Tours, then let them walk away--keep all of Spain, in fact. Now all this seems to ignore that there was a whole lot of tit-for-tat fighting going on. They'd attack Christian Europe, and Christian Europe would attack them right back. In almost all cases, the conflict was couched in a religious context, but was really more of a geopolitical struggle. The only thing that could stop this struggle is the aforementioned Crusade, except this one would end with two significant cities in the Arabian Peninsula wiped off the map. The thing is--he tells us what might help, but he doesn't for a moment suggest what we could do in the modern context. This is the worst kind of 'expert'--someone who will freely share all the problems, and say that the solutions are quite apparent, and then fail to share what those solutions might be.

3) I've had several students over the years (I taught high school) actively try to convert me to Islam. I'd listen to them, because it was something about which they were passionate, and you never want to dampen their spirits. I would then pull out a map, and show them the growth of Islam. I'd ask them how it got from Mecca to Tours in 100 years. Inevitably they'd come up with some wonderful fairy tale about how people would hear the words of the Prophet, and convert on the spot. I then pointed out that they pretty much cut their way across North Africa, and swept into Spain, and if not for Charles Martel, Christianity might have been wiped off the earth. Did they think that Martel was the first person to say, "No, thanks?" This usually made them quite uncomfortable, because what followed that period was a time of (relative) peace in an area not known for its stability. "How many people honestly and openly chose Islam, do you think?" Again, they'd get uncomfortable. Is Islam all about peace? Sure it is--as long as Islam is on top. But that's pretty much the story with Christianity, right? That's the source of all this talk about America being a "Christian" nation. It seems to have little to do with actual tenets of faith, and everything to do with BRAND IDENTITY.

The real question, then, is this: How many modern Muslims are willing to go back to the old way of doing things? Damn few, it turns out. That's what this whole "perversion" thing is about. Those who would ignore EVERYTHING the modern world offers and KILL PEOPLE to get it are, in fact, very few in numbers, but the fruits of this modern world allow small groups of determined people to unleash mayhem. People like that can be found in every faith, political party, and ideology. The idea that their way might not be the right way scares the hell out of them, and they'd do anything to feel absolutely sure. How do we fight this? How have we ever fought ignorance? Knowledge and time. Crusade never works.

>> ^NordlichReiter:
I'd like to see, more police punished to the full extent of the law, insofar as the punishment is not cruel and unusual.
Zero Tolerance for brutality.


I would like to see them punished just like any other criminal. Fair and impartial. (In case it might be mistaken, I am agreeing with you.)

I'd like to see, more police punished to the full extent of the law, insofar as the punishment is not cruel and unusual.

Zero Tolerance for brutality.

"I did not post this because I condone his actions in any way, but hopefully cops will start thinking twice from now on before they start beating on people, etc. which there seems to be a lot of going on these days."

No, cops wont start thinking differently. You hope something good happens from this horrible action... Perhaps I infer to much---like you did when you thought I called you stupid. For that I will apologize, because I was, apparently, not clear enough. I don't even ask that of you friend Duckman, I just want the fuck you taken back. Harsh for a misunderstanding...

Remember, we should never hope that something good comes from tragedy. We should hope good happens from good. Sadly, it takes a plane to crash, 120 people to die horribly, and 1 to live to say, "What a miracle."

>> ^Duckman33:
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
>> ^Duckman33:
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
Things have already been/are being done to stop police brutality, from cameras, to permanent records, to zero-tolerance. Also, police are now being charged with cases of abuse.
I find it funny that there is hardly any outrage when a father smashes his baby's skull, yet he is in authority even higher than the police. He is the father. It is far worse abuse, but it is just a freak rage episode and dissapears in a matter of days (After he is arrested.) But police? Even one minor incident? It creates a way of life for people that last forever.
When I see a cop, I tell my daughters that he/she is a man/woman you can run to if you get lost. Most parents joke, "I'm going to have you arrested by that man!" Yes, it's joking, but the culture does its damage even subtly. Kids fear cops... This discrimination is everywhere you look...
Either way, "I did not post this because I condone his actions in any way, but hopefully cops will start thinking twice from now on before they start beating on people, etc. which there seems to be a lot of going on these days," this was an incredibly stupid post. Should we rape women because they dress slutty---so they won't dress slutty anymore? The comparison is equally ludicrous because both are missing a vital point. YOU CANNOT SHOOT YOUR WAY TO PEACE ANYMORE THAN YOU CAN RAPE YOUR WAY TO CONSERVATIVE.
You wanna change something? Get out there and become an activist to change the laws governing the law. Make it a felony or worse for a cop to abuse a civilian. Or, better, hug a cop and tell him what a great job he is doing when he is being nice.

WTF are you talking about? I'm "incredibly stupid" because I don't condone his actions, but hope this incident helps other cops to think before they react in a way that will not only cost them their jobs, but more than likely ruin their careers for life? Or in this case cost them their life because of some fucked up vigilante?
You know what? Your entire rant is "incredibly stupid". Fuck you. And the horse you rode in on.

No, I said the idea that punishing certain groups of people (Cops or anyone else for that matter,) with violence will not make them resolve to be better people. That opinion is stupid. You are not stupid yourself. However, we are all entitled to assine opinions (Me included,) that make no sense whatsoever. It is just, when confronted, we must admit they make no sense and move on...
Duckman you get my respect, just not this opinion. Take back the fuck me part at least...
I just want to point out you cannot rape a woman into decency anymore than shooting a cop into decency.

When you can show me exactly where I said ANYTHING about shooting people being a great way to solve problems, I'll take it back. Until then, it stands. I was pretty sure I made myself clear on where I stood on the issue with my first sentence.

>> ^Lawdeedaw:

>> ^Duckman33:
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
Things have already been/are being done to stop police brutality, from cameras, to permanent records, to zero-tolerance. Also, police are now being charged with cases of abuse.
I find it funny that there is hardly any outrage when a father smashes his baby's skull, yet he is in authority even higher than the police. He is the father. It is far worse abuse, but it is just a freak rage episode and dissapears in a matter of days (After he is arrested.) But police? Even one minor incident? It creates a way of life for people that last forever.
When I see a cop, I tell my daughters that he/she is a man/woman you can run to if you get lost. Most parents joke, "I'm going to have you arrested by that man!" Yes, it's joking, but the culture does its damage even subtly. Kids fear cops... This discrimination is everywhere you look...
Either way, "I did not post this because I condone his actions in any way, but hopefully cops will start thinking twice from now on before they start beating on people, etc. which there seems to be a lot of going on these days," this was an incredibly stupid post. Should we rape women because they dress slutty---so they won't dress slutty anymore? The comparison is equally ludicrous because both are missing a vital point. YOU CANNOT SHOOT YOUR WAY TO PEACE ANYMORE THAN YOU CAN RAPE YOUR WAY TO CONSERVATIVE.
You wanna change something? Get out there and become an activist to change the laws governing the law. Make it a felony or worse for a cop to abuse a civilian. Or, better, hug a cop and tell him what a great job he is doing when he is being nice.

WTF are you talking about? I'm "incredibly stupid" because I don't condone his actions, but hope this incident helps other cops to think before they react in a way that will not only cost them their jobs, but more than likely ruin their careers for life? Or in this case cost them their life because of some fucked up vigilante?
You know what? Your entire rant is "incredibly stupid". Fuck you. And the horse you rode in on.

No, I said the idea that punishing certain groups of people (Cops or anyone else for that matter,) with violence will not make them resolve to be better people. That opinion is stupid. You are not stupid yourself. However, we are all entitled to assine opinions (Me included,) that make no sense whatsoever. It is just, when confronted, we must admit they make no sense and move on...
Duckman you get my respect, just not this opinion. Take back the fuck me part at least...
I just want to point out you cannot rape a woman into decency anymore than shooting a cop into decency.


When you can show me exactly where I said ANYTHING about shooting people being a great way to solve problems, I'll take it back. Until then, it stands. I was pretty sure I made myself clear on where I stood on the issue with my first sentence.

>> ^Duckman33:
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
Things have already been/are being done to stop police brutality, from cameras, to permanent records, to zero-tolerance. Also, police are now being charged with cases of abuse.
I find it funny that there is hardly any outrage when a father smashes his baby's skull, yet he is in authority even higher than the police. He is the father. It is far worse abuse, but it is just a freak rage episode and dissapears in a matter of days (After he is arrested.) But police? Even one minor incident? It creates a way of life for people that last forever.
When I see a cop, I tell my daughters that he/she is a man/woman you can run to if you get lost. Most parents joke, "I'm going to have you arrested by that man!" Yes, it's joking, but the culture does its damage even subtly. Kids fear cops... This discrimination is everywhere you look...
Either way, "I did not post this because I condone his actions in any way, but hopefully cops will start thinking twice from now on before they start beating on people, etc. which there seems to be a lot of going on these days," this was an incredibly stupid post. Should we rape women because they dress slutty---so they won't dress slutty anymore? The comparison is equally ludicrous because both are missing a vital point. YOU CANNOT SHOOT YOUR WAY TO PEACE ANYMORE THAN YOU CAN RAPE YOUR WAY TO CONSERVATIVE.
You wanna change something? Get out there and become an activist to change the laws governing the law. Make it a felony or worse for a cop to abuse a civilian. Or, better, hug a cop and tell him what a great job he is doing when he is being nice.

WTF are you talking about? I'm "incredibly stupid" because I don't condone his actions, but hope this incident helps other cops to think before they react in a way that will not only cost them their jobs, but more than likely ruin their careers for life? Or in this case cost them their life because of some fucked up vigilante?
You know what? Your entire rant is "incredibly stupid". Fuck you. And the horse you rode in on.


No, I said the idea that punishing certain groups of people (Cops or anyone else for that matter,) with violence will not make them resolve to be better people. That opinion is stupid. You are not stupid yourself. However, we are all entitled to assine opinions (Me included,) that make no sense whatsoever. It is just, when confronted, we must admit they make no sense and move on...

Duckman you get my respect, just not this opinion. Take back the fuck me part at least...

I just want to point out you cannot rape a woman into decency anymore than shooting a cop into decency.

I think that everyone would be surprised just how easy it is to become an Armed Security Officer (guard). 40 hour training which includes handgun qualification and shotgun qualification. I've seen a few of these classes, and they are pretty strict, but that is given the place that is providing the training. Zero Tolerance for itchy trigger fingers, and violating the fire line.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_guard

Pennsylvania No licensing requirements to be an unarmed security guard. However, armed security guards must undergo and successfully complete a 40 hour training course (including shooting range time) in order to be certified to carry weapons and on watch while on duty under the Lethal Weapons Training Act (commonly referred to as Act 235 certification). Certification involves qualifying on a pistol range, with firing of 50 rounds of .38 cal. ammo. You are also required to qualify on a shotgun. The certification is good for five years at which time an eight hour refresher course must be taken or the certification is revoked.[28]

>> ^Lawdeedaw:

Things have already been/are being done to stop police brutality, from cameras, to permanent records, to zero-tolerance. Also, police are now being charged with cases of abuse.
I find it funny that there is hardly any outrage when a father smashes his baby's skull, yet he is in authority even higher than the police. He is the father. It is far worse abuse, but it is just a freak rage episode and dissapears in a matter of days (After he is arrested.) But police? Even one minor incident? It creates a way of life for people that last forever.
When I see a cop, I tell my daughters that he/she is a man/woman you can run to if you get lost. Most parents joke, "I'm going to have you arrested by that man!" Yes, it's joking, but the culture does its damage even subtly. Kids fear cops... This discrimination is everywhere you look...
Either way, "I did not post this because I condone his actions in any way, but hopefully cops will start thinking twice from now on before they start beating on people, etc. which there seems to be a lot of going on these days," this was an incredibly stupid post. Should we rape women because they dress slutty---so they won't dress slutty anymore? The comparison is equally ludicrous because both are missing a vital point. YOU CANNOT SHOOT YOUR WAY TO PEACE ANYMORE THAN YOU CAN RAPE YOUR WAY TO CONSERVATIVE.
You wanna change something? Get out there and become an activist to change the laws governing the law. Make it a felony or worse for a cop to abuse a civilian. Or, better, hug a cop and tell him what a great job he is doing when he is being nice.


WTF are you talking about? I'm "incredibly stupid" because I don't condone his actions, but hope this incident helps other cops to think before they react in a way that will not only cost them their jobs, but more than likely ruin their careers for life? Or in this case cost them their life because of some fucked up vigilante?

You know what? Your entire rant is "incredibly stupid". Fuck you. And the horse you rode in on.

Things have already been/are being done to stop police brutality, from cameras, to permanent records, to zero-tolerance. Also, police are now being charged with cases of abuse.

I find it funny that there is hardly any outrage when a father smashes his baby's skull, yet he is in authority even higher than the police. He is the father. It is far worse abuse, but it is just a freak rage episode and dissapears in a matter of days (After he is arrested.) But police? Even one minor incident? It creates a way of life for people that last forever.

When I see a cop, I tell my daughters that he/she is a man/woman you can run to if you get lost. Most parents joke, "I'm going to have you arrested by that man!" Yes, it's joking, but the culture does its damage even subtly. Kids fear cops... This discrimination is everywhere you look...

Either way, "I did not post this because I condone his actions in any way, but hopefully cops will start thinking twice from now on before they start beating on people, etc. which there seems to be a lot of going on these days," this was an incredibly stupid post. Should we rape women because they dress slutty---so they won't dress slutty anymore? The comparison is equally ludicrous because both are missing a vital point. YOU CANNOT SHOOT YOUR WAY TO PEACE ANYMORE THAN YOU CAN RAPE YOUR WAY TO CONSERVATIVE.

You wanna change something? Get out there and become an activist to change the laws governing the law. Make it a felony or worse for a cop to abuse a civilian. Or, better, hug a cop and tell him what a great job he is doing when he is being nice.

>> ^GeeSussFreeK:
Mandatory sentencing is a mockery to justice and a result of the futile drug war here in the US. Accidental death should never carry a life sentence or be a capital offense.


And here we finally find something we agree on!

Mandatory sentencing, and the "zero-tolerance laws" are horrifically flawed attempts by politicians to make sure people know they're "taking action against crime". There's no evidence that they actually help, and plenty of examples where they've caused clear miscarriages of justice.

Meh going after McDonalds is lame, they would have zero tolerance for this managers behaviour, you can't tell if everyone one of your employees is an angel until they're guilty, that would be just as bad as what this manager did to this women.

It's unfortunate but I don't see this as McDonalds fault, it's very clearly an isolated incident and there is something wrong with the world if in fact this does result in 5-6 digit payout, we need to lose this mentality if we are to approve things like this.

From my own personal experience, McDonalds is one of the best equal opportunity employers that I've seen, from disabled, mentally disabled, young, old, any shape, size and colour. Seen it all, I live in Australia though.

I think they were just mentioning that to further the point that it should be a case-by-case basis instead of a zero tolerance bullshit policy. I was a victim of zero tolerance in high school, so maybe I'm biased.

I really hate the "precious little snowflake" mentality of some parents.

Did you guys read about the case where a girl brought a birthday cake to school with a knife to cut the cake? The teacher cut the cake and served it, THEN called the principal and reported her.. ugh.

I wish all these assholes enforcing this crap realized they are in effect ruining these pupils' educational lives. These things stay on your record and they really can prevent you from pursuing further education.

You're calling a Swiss army knife a weapon? More to the point, using a Swiss army knife to eat is threatening how? Zero tolerance is usually a justification to get away from any actual thinking and just throw the book at people, or small children in this case. I think the mom in the AP video summed it up best saying hard and fast rules cause a lot of collateral damage, kids tossed aside needlessly to obey the letter of the law and not its intent.