Oops! I posted to the wrong profile. Sorry about that! Glad we were able to continue our dialogue.

My comments/responses interspersed:

> "economics has never been my strong suit."

I know, my friend, I know. As soon as I hear some defense of "socialism," I know.

> "but i AM quite literate in history and government and of
> course politics."

Yes, my dear friend, but history is tied to economics, and these days, unfortunately, politics too.

> "while you are correct that a socialist state can become a
> fascist one,so too can a democracy."

Again, we agree! Yes, in fact, fascism is the offspring of democracy. And while not strictly a fascist, was not Hitler elected?
Is there here some assumption that I regard "Democracy" as some sort of "holy cow?" On the contrary, "democracy" is a type of "soft" socialism.
At least as practiced and typically defined.
Not market democracy, however, which is the same as the free market, and not problematic. But pandering political democracy is something else.

> "it is really the forces of ideology"

Yes, in fact the book I am now reading makes this point throughout. So did Mises. But I will say that Mises was not altogether correct in dismissing Marx' assertion that systems and structures influence ideology and not the other way around. Mises was mostly correct, ideology creates systems and structures and institutions, but Marx was a little bit correct, there is also some influence in the other direction.

> "i do apologize for my oftentimes rambling.maybe because i
> am a little out of my comfort zone when it comes to
> economics"

Do not worry my friend, this is the case with most people who have strong political/economic opinions. It has been called afterall the "dismal science." If people knew about economics, we'd have a totally different system of government or no government at all.

> "your last post really cleared so many misconceptions i was
> having during this conversation."

Glad to hear. Some of my other "debaters" get very little out of our debate so it is a refreshing situation.

> "i knew we were more in agreement than disagreement.
> and we are."

I think most people are actually in agreement about goals, they just disagree about means, mostly because of lack of economic education. But once that is cleared, the agreements become more evident.

> "the banks need to held accountable."

1. yes banks need to be held accountable for fraud, like any other business or person.

> "which by inference means the governments role should be
> as fraud detector and protector of the consumer."

2. if you still want a government, meaning you still want a monopolist to do this. But a monopoly is inefficient (this is one of those "economics" laws, but one I think is almost self-evident). So asking a monopoly run by kleptocrats to do this is like asking the wolves to look over the sheep.

> "you didnt mention it but i hope you agree the corporate
> charter needs to be rewritten in a way where they are NOT a
> person and therefore shall be removed from the political
> landscape."

3. Since I don't think government (monopolist) are necessary, I don't think it should be inventing legal entities and forcing those on everyone else. Corporations are the creation of the state. Without a state monopoly, they would look much different than they do at present. In actuality, regardless of legal definitions, a corporation is a group of persons, like a union or social club or a partnership.

> "this will (or should) re-balance our political system (which is
> diseased at the moment)."

4. Corporations are a symptom, not the cause of all our social ills. Lack of economic calculation is much more problematic on all levels. In short, government is not a solution, but the major contributor to the problem. And we still have not gone into the whole issue of how the government is not "we" or "the people" in any meaningful way and how having coercive rulers is a problem.

> "which will return this country to a more level playing field and
> equate to=more liberty."

5. I don't know that we agree here. Corporations are not the cause of lack of liberties. Government is. Corporations won't throw you in jail for not obeying the rulers; government will. Corporations will not garnish your wages. Government will.

> "this will open innovation,progress and advancements in ALL
> fields AND due to competitive forces ,will lower prices."

6. Things like getting rid of IP laws will do so. So will getting rid of most/all taxation and arbitrary regulation.

> "how am i doing so far?"

Doing great!

> "what is governments role"?

I heartily accept the motto,—“That government is best which governs least;” and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which I also believe,—“That government is best which governs not at all;” and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have."
I don't want government to do anything for me, and I don't want it to force me at gunpoint to do anything at all.
A monopoly cannot do anything good that a free competitive market cannot do better.

> "the anarchist finds it perfectly acceptable to tear down that
> government to build a new one."

If you want someone to rule over you by force, you are not an anarchist. What kind of government would you consider "anarchy?"

> "if something aint working the way it was meant to,get rid of
> it and try another."

What if I don't want you or anyone else imposing rulers on me? What if I believe I have a right to self-ownership and voluntary interactions and property?
What if I don't want your form of "government?' Then what? You still want to impose it on me?
I thought you were my friend.

> "well in an unrestricted market and pesky government out of
> the way what do YOU think is going to happen to a system
> driven by self interest and profit?"

Everything will improve. But government had to be totally out of the way. btw, where do you get that government is not driven itself by self-interest and profit?

> "and i am ok with that."

Well, the difference between what you want and what I want is that what I want is not to be imposed on you but what you want is to be forcefully imposed on me, violently too, if I don't comply.

> "illegal to have an employee owned business."

Like I said, government is a problem.

> "i dont know why it was illegal in this area and i dont see how
> employee owned companies would threaten a free market."

In a free market anyone can own any business they want or else it is not a free market.

> "but as you figured out.
> economics is not my strong suit."

Just because there is a law prohibiting co-op ownership of a bar, it does not mean that it is there for some reason that makes economic sense. It actually makes no economic sense so it must be there for some political reason or because someone somewhere profits from this restriction, as is always the case with regulations.

> "and my man,cant tell ya how grateful i am to have had this
> conversation with you.i learned tons,about you and your
> views and even some about free markets."

Remember, a free market means free, not "semi" free. Not privilege for some, like regulations tend to do.
Always a pleasure.

Liked the clip, thought I'd help out with the translation, as some expression Google translate totally misses Tried to keep it as literal as possible, here you go


[Flynt]
My friend is my buddy even though he has no money
He’s my appearance, my face but doesn’t look like me
He’s my brother, but we weren’t carried by the same arms
He’s my s’rab (= friend), he surely won’t be the one to denounce me
My friend is my big but he’s not Pierre Menes
He doesn’t break sugar on my back (literal translation of French expression, it means he doesn’t talk about him behind his back)
He can support OM (French soccer team Olympique Marseille) and if it helps him I’d lie to his wife without a problem
And If my friend comes from far away, he or his parents
Black, white, yellow or brown, it makes me one ignorant less
I do not expect you to wax my shoes (again French expression, it means he doesn’t expect him to kiss his ass)
It will not be because of you being straightforward if I burn the bridges
I wouldn’t put you in my mess if I did something stupid
I wouldn’t ask you to come down with a shovel at night without asking any questions
But if it is needed, bring me back home
If I go crazy bring me back to reason
We can disagree, we can take our heads (French expression, it means We can argue, fight)
But there will always be a piece for you on my plate
My buddy does not scream with wolves
We do not wash our dirty laundry in public (to take care of your personal business) but between us
It is not always the good wind that brings my buddy (It means it is not always a happy reason why his friend is coming to him)
I’m not always OK with how he behaves
I wouldn’t like to learn that he has betrayed me or that he’s plotting
It would bury our relationship even if it’s strong
I have not sealed my fate to his, for me things are clear
My friend is my friend but he’s not my father
I want to keep him a long time so I avoid interfering
Between him and me, money, women and all that could divide us

[Orelsan]
My friend has always been there
Too long, my best friend was me
My buddy stays at my home, we spend sleepless nights
We remake the world, we hear each other even in the silences
My friend always answers my phone calls
That we every hour or every twelve years
I can make him understand everything with a blink
At the edge of the explosion buddy is the pin (goupille is the metal pin of a grenade)
Where I am many people mix friends and groupies
But I’ve understood treason since Fox and the Hound
My buddy isn’t trying to please me at all costs
Doesn’t pretend to look away when my verses are bad
Late evening, always a corner of a sofa
My car is not in the ditch because he keeps the key
Nothing separates us even large sums (of money)
We don’t raise pigs but have raised some sluts
My buddy lowers no one to bring himself in the spotlight
He’s my reflection, breaking us apart is risking seven years of bad luck
My buddy is not a beast in heat
And I can sleep peacefully at night when I introduce him to my sister
Loyal in friendship
If I am not down to earth anymore my dude reminds me of the laws of gravity
Always ready, always the first to come down
in case of a dip or for a game of Play(station)

He’s my antidepressant, my lexo(mil), my friends aren’t all heroes

In practice we all have our faults
If one day in my life I forget to be legit

I’ll listen to this piece again as a kind of memo

[Flynt & Orelsan]
This is for my friend of 20 years
For my buddy of now
He’s my disgusting friend and my dapper dude
For my ugliest friend
For my dumbest pal
For m most down to earth friendy friend
For my friend on Pluto

This is for my easy-talking friend and my dyslexic friend

My buddy that my friend (girl) said no to but persists
For my unemployed buddy, my buddy who works

For my kickeur buddy, my buddy who raps poorly
(kickeur apparently means good rapper: it does)

Boxer buddy, my pianist friend
Performing buddy, buddy artist
Buddy hook, buddy Roger
My friend who crashes at a mate’s house and has no projects

Dude in a suit, buddy in Coste-la (Coste-la is actually ‘verlan’ for Lacoste, the brand)
My friend who lives in the countryside

and so here is a google translation...

[Flynt]
My friend is my Swiss although not sorrel
This is my ganache, my mouth but not me
This is my brother, but it was not brought by the same arm
This is my SRAB is surely not the one who denounced me
My friend is my big but it is not Pierre Menes
It does not break my back on sugar
It can support the OM and if it helps I lie to his wife without problem
If my friend has far him or her darons
Black, white, yellow or brown, it makes me a less ignorant
I do not expect from me that thou waxes pumps
It will not be because of your deductible if I cut the bridges
J'te would not put in my shenanigans and if I did the con
J'te not ask to reapply with a shovel at night without asking any question
But if we take me home
If I go into a spin please take me to the reason
We can disagree, we can take the lead
But y 'will always firstly for you on my plate
My buddy does not scream with Wolves
We do not wash dirty linen in public but us
This is not always the good wind brings buddy
J'cautionne not always how it behaves
I would not learn that he has betrayed me or plotting
It bury our relationship even if they are strong
I have not sealed my fate to his, for me things are clear
My friend is my friend but it is not my father
I want to keep it that long so I avoid interfering
Between him and me money, women and all c'qui could divide us

[Orelsan]
My friend has always been there
Too long, my best friend was me
Buddy squats at home, we spend sleepless nights
We remade the world, means even in the silences
My friend always answers my shots thread
That is called every hour or every twelve rods
J'peux all understand him with an eyebrow
At the edge of the explosion buddy is the pin
I'm where many people mix friends and groupies
But I understood the treason since Fox and the Hound
My buddy is trying not please at all costs
Not pretend to move the head when j'fais couplets rotten
Late evening, always a corner sofa
My car is not in the ditch because it holds the key
Nothing separates us even large sums
No pigs are raised but raised some sluts
Buddy lowers one to highlight
This is my reflection, we break it's risky seven years of misfortune
My buddy is not a beast in heat
And I can sleep peacefully at night when my sister has J'lui
Loyal friend
If I have more down to earth dude reminds me of the laws of gravity
Always ready, always the first to reapply
If that blow for a party Play

This is my antidepressant, my lexo, my friends n'sont not all heroes
(n'sont = are not) so my friends are not all heroes.

In practice we all have our faults
If one day in my life I forgot to be legit

J'réécouterais this piece as a kind of memo
(J'réécouterais = I'm saying)

[Flynt & Orelsan]
This is for my friend 20 years
For my buddy now
This is my friend and my disgusting dapper dude
My ugliest friend
To my greatest con pal
My friend down to earth
To my friend on Pluto

This is for my friend and my Chatter dyslexic friend
( I think chatter here means mumbling)

My buddy that my friend said no but still
Unemployed for my buddy, my buddy who works

Kickeur my buddy, my buddy who raps poorly
(kickeur apparently means good rapper)

Boxer buddy, my pianist friend
Handler buddy, buddy artist
Buddy hook, buddy Roger
My friend who squats at a mate and no project

Dude in a suit, buddy-Coste in the (coste-la seems to mean united states or the coast) so buddy in the states

My friend who lives in the countryside

*related=http://videosift.com/video/Wolves-Interrupt-Traffic-Stop-Inside-edition

Russian Cop Hops In Car To Avoid Wolves has been added as a related post - related requested by kulpims on that post.

Wolves Interrupt Traffic Stop (Inside edition) has been added as a related post - related requested by kulpims.

*related=http://videosift.com/video/Anju-the-Tamaskan-joining-the-howl-of-a-pack-of-wolves

*related=http://videosift.com/video/Bowser-Joins-The-Wolfpack

Anju, the Tamaskan, joining the howl of a pack of wolves. has been added as a related post - related requested by ant.

Bowser Joins The Wolfpack has been added as a related post - related requested by ant.

I think George R. R. Martin has the world's most severe case of ADD.

I read the first three books in the series, and there are a ton of awesome ideas, but it feels like as soon as you get behind a character to cheer for them, they die. The murdered lord's children all get dire wolves as pets in the beginning, and I'm thinking, cool, that's going somewhere, but nada. Some of the wolves die, others run away. You never hear from them again.

The whole series is like that, completely unhinged. I don't know how it's so popular, or why it was made into a TV series. Maybe just the unpredictability of it, there's certainly no other reason to follow the series.

I wanted to hear more about that pack of wolves.

"Big" Cats (Lions, Tigers) hunt by themselves, with a straight line-of-sight chase.

"Big" dogs (Wolves, Hyenas) hunt in packs, using communication and coordination.

Cooperation is a huge sign of intelligence.

Mispeaking is when Romney/Obama accidentally introduce their VPs as the POTUS.

This is an ideological belief he thought he could get away with and knows other people believe in too. These are the same people that think most if not all rape victims actually wanted it/deserved it

He honestly believes he can still win his race. Even Republicans have reported that he lives in his own parallel universe.

Throw this fucker, and his party, to the wolves.

"Imagine having to make a decision to put down your 19 year old son or daughter. That's probably pretty close to how the guy feels about his dog"

No. It. Is. Not.

As for the other responses, the "will to live/eat" argument, I call bullshit. Every living thing has survival instincts, thats why they exist in the first place. But dogs do not on a human level understand the connection between eating and surviving, they do not stop eating because they've "lost the will to live". That is us, humans, antropomorphising the dogs brain. They dont have that same cognitive future-predicting brain we do. They dont make that kind of connection. Whatever triggers the "i'm gonna stop eating and go die" behaviour is probably connected with dogs and wolves pack behaviour, which would be triggered because the dog "knows" that its would slow down the pack, and thus decides to leave. This would however not be knowledge, but evolved pack behaviour, and is unreliable to determine whether the dog has a worthy life. This behaviour could also be triggered in false alarm cases, such as hormones during or after mating seasons and so forth, one week later and the dog is happy as ever.

What is clear, is that this dog, in the video, cannot run anymore, it cannot fetch, search or do anything that stimulates its brain anymore. A dog thats being fed by an owner every day do not have the evolutionary history, nor the brains, to decide that this isnt a life worth living. Which is excactly were the dogs owners brain is supposed to come in: The dog eats because its hungry, it drinks because its thirsty. In more aspects than ever, its being artificially kept alive , as most dogs are most of their life, because they are domesticated and are thus useless hunters/scavengers, but they can still be happy and pain free, but in cases like this, it is literally being kept alive in pain, which is due to the owners emotional commitment.

And thats really all there is to it, if the living creature in front of you is in constant pain, constant agonizing pain, and you are keeping it alive on the basis of your personal feelings, you are hurting that animal. Every day. And those are sad, painful days for that animal. We do the same thing to some humans, even when they express their desire to die, which is a separate issue, but also sad, but atleast most humans can express such desires, and understand what it means to die and escape the pain, but dogs cant. Which is why we should make the hard decision and let them go, even if that hurts so, so much (again, yes I DO know, and yes I have had enough dogs in my life to know).

Wow, a 6 year old account. I can really weed them out. Hello, have fun, go fuck yourself.
>> ^iaui:

I logged in to say this.
Wow. You're an asshole. I hope that's actually you're face your using to argumentum ad baculum your way to 'more respect'. I'll know who to avoid.
I, too, am surprised at the comments on this video. As someone said above, it's just an excuse to hate. That impetus certainly seems strong in you.
I can't say the above without giving you another option. You can change it. Corny but very true explanation: http://morethansayings.blogspot.ca/2012/03/battle-between-two-wolves.
html>> ^gwiz665:
If you're bored, go some place else.
>> ^thumpa28:
Yeah, the theological angle is the one to concentrate on, how fucking predictably boring. Back on topic, the mother needs a slap.

This is exactly how I behave when I have any encounter like this. Then a pack of wolves comes out of nowhere and devours me.