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Colbert interviews Anita Sarkeesian

00Scud00 says...

Unfortunately nobody here can really do anything about the fact that the main character of Super Mario Bros. is a man, you'll have to take that up with Nintendo. Making such a change today wouldn't be too difficult I'm sure, but back in 1985 I doubt such things were even on anybody's radar.
Which brings me to my next point, if Miyamoto wasn't even considering player gender as being a big issue then I doubt Mario was born out of a malicious desire to debase women(so no Warioesque mustache twirling then). The damsel in distress story is probably as old as storytelling itself, yes, it's a trope. Stories can enlighten us, make us think, make us feel, and of course entertain us; but we should not allow them to define us. I think that's a crucial difference between my beliefs Sarkeesian's, she wants to use the media to tell us how to think, act and believe, where I think we are perfectly capable of deciding that for ourselves.

SDGundamX said:

@Asmo

Except my daughter doesn't want to play other games--she wants to play Mario Brothers games. They have excellent game and level design. Why should she have to go elsewhere? Are you trying to say Mario Brothers games not for girls?

All my daughter is asking is to be allowed to play as the Princess--maybe after you free her from Bowser. That doesn't seem like much to ask, as it would have exactly zero effect on gameplay.

Personally, I'd go much farther and say when a game series continuously sends the message that women are helpless victims who need to be defended by men, when they're continuously objectified as trophies to be passed from player to villain and back to player again, then something is very wrong with that game and things need to change. Yeah, other games may be great, but why should that prevent people like Sarkeesian or myself from pointing out the games that aren't? Why should the trend itself not be pointed out when we can find examples of it outside of the Mario series?

Colbert interviews Anita Sarkeesian

SDGundamX says...

I thought the solution was rather obvious, actually.

You fix things by making games where people are portrayed as... people. Not trophies to be acquired, not sexual objects to be drooled over, and not stereotypes.

You couple that with continued criticism of games that continue to rely on sexist, racist, or homophobic tropes.

And guess what? That's already happening. People have been saying that games need to change for a while before Sarkeesian showed up. Bioware acknowledged the issues and started trying to include more realistic characters in its RPGs years ago--and caught flak for it even back then.

To address your other... points?

My daughter asked me the other day why she can't play as the princess in Super Mario Galaxy 2 (or any of the other Mario games we own). And I had to tell her it's because the Princess got kidnapped. Her response was to ask if she could play as the Princess once we freed her from Bowser. And I had to tell her no.

There is something wrong with that!

After having that conversation with my daughter I fired up Torchlight, where I'm currently playing as a Vanquisher. Vanquisher's are rogue-like ranged characters and can only be female. If you want to be a warrior ("Destroyer" in game terms) or magic user ("Alchemist" in game terms), sorry--it's a men's only club. And not only that, but Vanquisher's--regardless of the armor they wear, must bare their midriff and wearing a mini-skirt showing lots of leg and cleavage (do a google image search for Torchlight Vanquisher to see what I'm talking about). Apparently you can't be a Vanquisher without being a sex pot too.

There is something wrong with that! (To be fair, they got better with Torchlight II and allowed any class to be any gender and allowed the women to cover up with armor OR choose to be sexy).

Society doesn't just change by itself. You're right, society is becoming more accepting of diversity--because people are fighting very hard for it.

Take America's attitude towards homosexuality. Look at the strides made in the last 20 years. That didn't just magically happen. There were TV shows that portrayed homosexuals as human beings worthy of respect. There were lawsuits. There were marches and protests. There were speeches. There were YouTube campaigns like "It gets better." A lot of people worked fucking hard to get the message out that bigotry is not okay.

Look, I'm sorry people pointing out to you how fucked up it is how women are sometimes portrayed in games is somehow ruining your ability to enjoy games. But there are serious problems here. Maybe not problems for you, but problems for people like my daughter.

The solution to these problems is not to lambast the people pointing them out. Nor is the solution to sit back and do nothing and hope it all works out for the best. One solution, as I've already stated, is to be openly critical of the messages contained in ALL media (including games). Another solution is to be vocal about the need for more realistic and diverse portrayals of people in ALL media (including games).

You can still have your Damsel/Dude in Distress trope, by the way. I have no doubt lazy developers will continue to use it as a substitute for meaningful story. Just don't expect people not to call out the utter absurdity of it, is all I'm saying.

Asmo said:

Yes, she's great at pointing that out.

What's the solution?

Quota's of protagonists sex? Replacing "damsel" with "prince" in distress? Getting rid of chainmail bikinis?

Oh, and how do we propagate that to the entire entertainment industry?

There is nothing wrong with playing a prince and rescuing a princess. There is nothing wrong with the princess being helpless. There is nothing wrong with Femmeshep kicking the shit out of the reapers and saving every being in the known universe, one of the most badass female protagonists around. More female protagonists = great, bring it on, but that's no reason to throw out a trope as old as time (incidentally, a trope enjoyed by a great many women who like to watch sappy romances where the charming fellow rescues the woman from her crappy life...).

Her series predicates on the concept that players are too fucking dumb to understand the difference between real life and the game. That if you play Duke Nukem, you'll walk around slapping girls tits and saying the most inappropriate things you can think of.

It's exactly the same tripe that Jack Thompson was peddling back in the day, games change how you think. And, for most people (ie. the mentally stable...), it was wrong then and it's wrong now. Your upbringing and parental guidance, and the relationship your male role models have with women, are far more likely to determine whether or not a man is likely to be sexist/misogynist than a few games with scantily clad girls needing a big strong man to save them... Society has changed to become more accepting of race, creed, sexual orientation and, of course, women, and it will continue to become so even if the old trope of the princess is in another castle hangs around. It may take generations before inequality dies out, if it ever does. It's not something you can fix by complaining about games.

Super Mario Mercedes-Benz Car Commercial (Japan)

Super Mario Mercedes

Super Mario Mercedes

Super Mario Mercedes

Silo Demolition Fail

eric3579 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Might I suggest to you and @lucky760 "the wages of fear"? My favorite movie, and the introduction of Super Mario (oddly I'm only kind of joking about that) in the 50's. It's about bums in Mexico getting a job driving trucks of nitro glycerin through the jungle to a burning oil well. Remade as "sorcerer" in 77 with Roy Schieder (see the original first) it's still my favorite movie, due largely to the last 30 seconds of the film (I won't spoil it). It's a bit of a slow start, like many older movies are, but it gains speed quite nicely. I still love it even though it's French (and I hold onto my irrational hatred of the French because, well, you gotta hate someone!)
Hope you like it if you try it.
Newt

eric3579 said:

That movie trailer you posted looks great. A real good feels type movie. There are so few good films that it sucks to have to wait when there is one you want to see.

Ill pimp a movie at you that i just saw as it is a feel good film that I really loved and you may also. Watch the trailer
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/short_term_12_2013/

nock (Member Profile)

Super Mario Theme Song Played on Ancient Chinese Instrument

siftbot says...

Tags for this video have been changed from 'sheng, china, coin sounds, italian plumber' to 'sheng, china, coin sounds, italian plumber, super mario, music, ancient, instrument' - edited by lucky760

nock (Member Profile)

Super Mario Theme Song Played on Ancient Chinese Instrument

gwiz665 (Member Profile)

radx says...

Dafuq?

Some blokes used controller input to feed code into the memory of a regular Super Mario World, then managed to glitch the game into running the code, thereby transforming Super Mario into Snake/Pong.

How Charlie Sheen Discovered Global Warming

Super Smash Bros Brawl. - Mario versus/vs. Luigi

lucky760 says...

After 30 years since I first played Super Mario Bros. I'm finally realizing now that the two brothers are named after one of them (unless their last name is also Mario).

I don't know if it's stranger that they're named that way or that it's taken me this long to realize it.

*promote



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