“ my solution would be every able bodied Jewish man and woman join the French (or Polish, Russian, British) army and fucking fight…”

I agree that’s the noble thing to do, but I can’t condemn the ones that choose to seek safety in numbers with Jewish Palestinians as exclusively invasion minded aggressors. My 6 million tag was maybe a bit sharp, but you also know that the Nazi’s took Paris and as much as it sucked to be French or European under Nazi occupation, you also know adding Jewish to that carried a lot of extra consequence and danger to your family.

My POV is agnostic of everything save Isreali people today having a right exist as a nation. Which at this point from my POV leaves 1947 as somewhat academic.

It’s your insistence that Jewish people, and the existence of Israel, have always fundamentally been invaders that I was objecting to as it is so intensely at odds with factual history.

You gave a brief nod on not being a scholar of Palestinian history, but then proceed to just count all Jewish refugees as good as Zionist aggressors from day 1(or close enough), and the local Arab population as nothing but pure, kind caring victims of these invaders.

I will state again, that is ahistorical propaganda and NOT what actually happened. And for my POV, its enough generations back as to be Academic, but for your POV it is fundamental because without being able to writeoff Israel as invaders from day 1, nuance enters the calculus and suddenly the conflict is flooded with shades of grey because lots of parties all contribute to the bloodshed, and many with reasonable motivations from both sides yet too.

Please find me any reputable sources to refute the reality of 1920-1940s Palestine:
-Mass Jewish immigration fleeing European oppression raised tensions between Jewish and Arab Palestinians.(as one must expect)
-Arab palestinians were already chaffing and resisting British colonial rule(as one must expect)
-These tensions led conflict, initially more ‘civil’ with the Arab majority trying to refuse all business, sales and trade with all Jews.
-Escalation followed throughout that time, but in drips and drops and NOT a ‘surprise the Zionist army has arrived’! style of aggression

The violent escalation was a fight here, a beating there. Little individual fights, escalating into deaths. Retaliations slowly grew, with each side exchanging small escalations.

-the culmination of this was eventually all out civil war, and the Jewish side immediately accepting a UN mandated 2 state solution

-this culmination coinciding with the end of WW2 and revelations of the true extent of the holocaust can’t be ignored, it certainly shaped the Jewish mindset in the conflict.

-Their mindset was pretty clearly not inaccurate either, as the immediate response of all neighbouring Arab nations was a declaration of war on the new ‘state’, with bold claims of how quickly the Jews would be swept into the sea. The confidence was so high, a call was sent it for ALL Arab palestinians to abandon and flee the entire region of Palestine to better enable the complete cleansing of the land.

The above is all pretty much inarguably factual, and I’d bargain you could get an Arabic and Israeli scholar together to more or less agree on those facts which is saying alot.

——
Propaganda from both sides would like to declare that the Arabs harboured deep Nazi sympathies, and thus Israel was pure and true in all it did. Or from the other side, more or less your narrative of Zionist bad guys launching invasion from day 1(ish).

Both though are just sprinklings of half truths, with anti-British resentment naturally breeding some leanings towards the axis, and even genuine Nazi cleanse the Jews believers. And absolutely Zionists featured prominently within the Jewish population. Neither of those partial truths though make the propaganda of either side true, but instead just an incomplete and intentionally biased picture.


Again, please find me sources demonstrating I’m terribly wrong on all that, but the only ones I can find are clearly biased and the accurate accounts paint the picture above, the propaganda very, very clearly copies the real story more or less with just deletions of inconvenient bits

Maybe let’s try a different tack to common ground.

It feels like the fundamental difference is on the reasonableness of the actions of the Jewish population in the 40s. I count it within reason enough to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist as a nation, while you count it a foreign invader from day 0(or maybe day 5 or 6).

What would you have had the Jewish European people in the 30s/40s do?

I’d like to rule out ‘wait patiently for legal avenues of immigration’ on account of at least 6million doing that, but…

It depends on the first answer, but if your answer includes the option of seeking refuge amongst the Jewish population in Palestine, then the followup:
What you have had the existing Jewish Palestinian population and new refugees do with themselves once in Palestine?

I kinda feel your POV requires the belief that, again humbly waiting for fair treatment was gonna work out well for them…

Yes. What’s your point? You seem to agree with me, except you go back to the 20’s instead of early 30’s. I’m not a Palestine scholar, sorry if I get details or dates slightly wrong, sources vary on many points. It doesn’t change my point, that under British rule European Jews were allowed to immigrate in huge numbers despite opposition from the native population that was being overwhelmed by increasing unwanted forced immigration. At first it was accepted even encouraged by the empathetic natives, but quickly became an overwhelming unwanted invasion of people intent on taking over, not some moderate number of refugees looking for temporary refuge.

Who the fuck cares what the reason they wanted to invade was? Palestinians weren’t responsible for their plight, but still stood ready to help until invaded and subjugated harshly by the invaders.
Should Venezuelans be allowed to take over Pennsylvania because they want out of Venezuela for good reason? Or Chinese? Or any African? Or Central American? Certainly Haitians have it bad enough to make it ok to take a state for themselves! Yes, Europe was dangerous…for anyone. That’s not an excuse to invade, murder another person and steal their land and subjugate their descendants for decades, but that’s what they did…and what you’re attempting to excuse.

Well, that explains it then. You think because the Jews had it worse once, it excuses being the Nazis today. I do not, I believe it gives them more reason to never be anything like the Nazis, not emulate them. The Palestinian plight is worse than many Jews in Europe besides Poland or Germany. They’re already in the ghetto, not free to travel and maybe get out. They’re already oppressed, subjugated, starved, dehydrated, often without power or communications, and 100% under the thumb and control of their oppressors. Sounds pretty shitty to me. Your family murdered at a whim with no repercussions sounds pretty bad. Your ancestral home taken by force and family shot for existing sounds fairly bad. I’m not sure how you think it’s OK because someone else maybe had it worse once.

When they “arrived in Palestine”, it was as an illegal unwanted invasion intent on taking over and expelling or eradicating the native population. They deserved violence 100%. The population was doing more than their share accepting refugees, then for their humanity was invaded and dehumanized in their own country. No excuse can make that acceptable unless it had happened in Germany post war.

Yes, Jews were the bad guys, invading a land they had and have no right to. You got it! They didn’t even have a right to refugee status there, it was a gift, they absolutely had no right to take control and possession by force, nor to become the inhuman monsters they were fleeing in Northern Europe.

Absolutely not. What even was his plan, I ask you. It wasn’t securing the borders.

I support the plan to FUND border parol and immigration courts to not only secure the border but repair the immigration process that does not function today. With a functioning immigration process, most would use it, making stopping illegal entry much easier.

I support refugee camps in the East Texas desert, not open release before processing.

I absolutely do not support actual open borders, nor allowing other countries to just send plane and train and boatloads of unvetted people in in numbers that would make natives the minority in quick fashion, nor do I support returning Texas (including Oklahoma, Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming, and New Mexico) to the Mexicans even though they are fleeing near the same level of fear, oppression and death from narco gangs and have some hereditary claims (which European Jews did not, they were mostly not Semitic genetically). I disagree the circumstances were much more desperate in the 30’s outside of Germany, and I disagree that the choices are Trumpism or no-border free-for-alls.

"welcomed a relatively small number of European Jewish refugees in the 30’s while under British rule"
The Jewish population in Palestine approximately doubled from 84k in 1922 to 175k in 1931, and tensions already started pretty heavily then in 1931. The Arab narrative is pretty emphatic that the invasion start in the 1920s(and unspoken, the resistance and tension internally between Jew and Arab too).


"Then in the 40’s the Jewish minority, America, and England ignored their pleas to minimize immigration, ignored immigration laws, and invited a major invasion, so many European Jews came illegally..."

Come now, don't play dumb, you left out any reason why European Jews might do this outside of 'launching an invasion'. What other motive might 1940's Jewish Europeans have had to ignore immigration laws to migrate out of Europe????


That's where your narrative and mine clash irrevocably. I count the refugee flight from 1940s Europe to be even more desperate than the plight the Palestinians in Gaza face today. I can not accept your POV where upon arriving in Palestine and facing violence and discrimination there too, that it's just plain and simply obvious that the Jewish people's are invaders and bad guys with no right to an existence in the land they fled to.

You know, unless you want to credit Trump's MAGA approach to the southern border as valid cause it's awful similar, save that the Jewish people were facing much more desperate circumstances

In short-The small population of Arab natives along with a native Jewish minority welcomed a relatively small number of European Jewish refugees in the (edit:20’s and early) 30’s while under British rule (but with a date set for their independence by the League of Nations, a date that came and went without ever establishing a Palestinian state). Then in the 40’s (even by mid 30’s)the Jewish minority, America, and England ignored their pleas to minimize immigration, ignored immigration laws, and invited a major invasion, so many European Jews came illegally that the Arab natives quickly became the minority, then had all rights stripped by the now well armed invaders that now claimed their land and property…invaders that kept coming by the millions. How is that not an invasion of squatters?
It’s a complete abandonment of the Palestinian Mandate the Brits ruled under, which was allowed internationally after ww1 for the sole purpose of getting Palestine in a position to rule themselves, something the Brits failed to even try then actively sabotaged by supporting the mass immigration of millions of European Jews, and was the biggest possible “fuck off and die” to the Palestinian people that had cooperated fully with the international plan for their independent future that was unceremoniously stripped from them and handed to Israel.
From that point, details don’t matter so much. Invading occupying forces don’t get to whine because the natives won’t just go away and die….at least I’m not listening when they do. Want to stop being attacked, stop murdering innocents and taking land.

I wonder why you think Israel is not so dominant seeing as they already proved repeatedly their military dominance even when their neighbors band together. Not one of the countries you mentioned has an advanced military, they are last gen at best, really two or more generations behind, and have third world resources not trillions to spend. Iraq proved that advanced weapons beat numbers hands down every single time. Unless Iran gets a nuke capable of getting through the highest levels of missile defense on the planet, their “neighbors” (Palestines allies) pose no actual threat to Israel and a pretty minor threat to the expansionist settlers invading Palestine.

I never ignored any rolls of the neighbors supporting, arming, and instigating unrest…but those roles are minuscule compared to the actions of Israel. Nothing recruits for Hamas like the Israeli army. Nothing creates more terrorists than murderous settlers. No other factor has 1% the effect that Israel’s own actions do in creating enemies.
Murderous expansionist settlers should be eliminated with prejudice immediately. They are the biggest factor driving Israel’s murderous regime to murder more innocents.
If Israel acted civilly instead of treating the natives like the Nazis treated them, its neighbors couldn’t easily convince angry teens to pick up guns and shoot Israelis. Give the Palestinians something to lose, or they’ll have nothing to lose, a chip on their shoulder, and a clear enemy responsible for their plight. This is the official recipe for a terrorist.

Blaming the neighbors is like claiming N Carolina is RESPONSIBLE for all shootings in N Y because some guns used are procured there…nonsense. They are complicit, but minimally so. It’s the shooters motives you need to look at, not the store they use. Why are they so ready to sacrifice their lives to just shoot or throw rocks AT Israel (99/100 times hitting nothing)? Because they have nothing to lose but life in an ever shrinking ghetto ruled over by a foreign racist regime that wants them just gone and is more than happy to starve children to death and bomb refugee camps to accomplish that goal.
The neighbors didn’t invade, expel, ghettoize, and gleefully murder the Palestinian people, that was Israel.

Blaming the victims is not an argument that will win many over…and no question the Palestinian people are the TRUE and only victims.

Where are the European countries now…the same ones that facilitated the Jewish invasion should be obligated to enforce the borders, and/or take the Palestinian refugees and free them from the ghetto/prison Israel keeps them in….but none are.

Side note- I keep hearing people who support Palestinians described as anti semitic. It bears noting that European Jews, the VAST majority of Israelis, are NOT Semitic…but all Palestinians are. Being pro-Israel is actually and factually anti-Semitic.

“Did you ever think that the values were off in your statement of financial condition?” Assistant Attorney General Kevin Wallace asked the former president,
“yes, on occasion” Trump responded
😂

Case closed. That’s it. That’s Trump admitting he knowingly and willfully committed major bank and tax fraud…”on occasion”.

He tried the “I have a disclaimer clause so I’m allowed to lie as much as I want.” defense…Engoron has already ruled that the clause does not absolve him of the responsibility to provide true and accurate reports of property values to both lenders and the state, does not allow him to lie or substitute possible future value for today’s actual value, and doesn’t allow the exaggeration of square footage either…all of which he admitted on the stand that he does.

Letting Trump testify was the worst decision Habba has made yet, and it’s going to end in both a total loss in court, a minimum of $250 million in damages maybe much more, and criminal charges against Trump and maybe his kids for the frauds. He would have been infinitely better off staying silent and just losing…but we all know remaining silent is an impossibility for him.

Edit-He’s in check mate for Jan 6 by Chutkan too. He’s saying publicly that he intends to use an “advice of council” defense, trying to claim he just got bad advice that he could foment a coup and send fake electors to steal the election so shouldn’t be libel, but he and his dime store lawyers didn’t understand that that defense waives 100% of attorney client privilege and now he’s being forced to decide if he will use that defense before trial and if so must disclose all communications with his lawyers from 2020-21. 😂

So in short, either disclose all records of his planning for Jan 6 and the big lie which itself would disprove and negate his advice of council defense, or forget the advice of council defense, the only defense he had.
😂 Would the prisoner like a blindfold or a cigarette? 😂

Ooooh….Trump on the stand was a disaster.
Couldn’t speak up. Couldn’t answer questions. Couldn’t stay on topic so badly the judge repeatedly told him to stop telling stories and answer the questions. He shot back with “why, you’re just going to rule against me anyway.”…a self fulfilling prophecy if I’ve ever heard one.

When he did answer, his answers were insanity like “banks don’t care about financial statements, I know, I’ve been doing this a long time.” Not a good idea to remind the judge that there are hundreds more instances of major fraud you aren’t being prosecuted for because of the statute of limitations.

Turns out banks DO care, and will be suing for the $180 million he cheated them out of in interest by lying about his collateral, plus interest and penalties…assuming he isn’t stripped of every dime by New York State first by disgorgement….which is taking back ill gotten gains.

Also nonsensical shit like “I could have added my brand value and immediately made those properties worth 10 to 100 times as much” forgetting that not only had they doubled the value or more for his “brand value” but again for “presidential value”.

And “they undervalued my properties here by 1000 times!” forgetting that not only was the $18-24 million appraised value agreed on and signed off by Trump, he actually went to court to get it lowered claiming Maralago WASN’T worth +-$20 million it was worth far LESS. Now he’s in court telling everyone that was another pure tax fraud lie he told in Florida to cheat Florida out of tens of millions in property taxes…if Maralago is really worth billions, not $18 million he claims for taxes, that means Trump owes evaded property taxes on $982000000, over $10 million per year for as long as he’s owned it….plus penalties and interest. That’s his DEFENSE! 🤦‍♂️ 😂

Most of his testimony was stricken as rambling and non responsive.

He was nearly thrown out of court for his out of control behavior. He acted like a spoiled three year old. Don’t be surprised if there’s a major contempt charge this afternoon….possibly remand.

Edit: Also don’t be surprised if he’s just dismissed from the stand, has his testimony stricken completely, and as the judge has warned the judge takes every negative inference possible, assuming every answer he would have given was the worst possible answer for Trump. That seems to be Trumps plan…attempt anything to later make the argument at appeal that the judge was biased and didn’t give Trump a fair trial…but the record proves otherwise and appeals courts read the record. That ploy won’t work…Trump’s lawyers are awful. It’s never a good strategy to try to lose as big as possible in court.

Now, keep in mind, this is just New York, where he’s already been found guilty and they’re just determining the punishment….other states he’s done fraudulent business in are undoubtedly watching closely to see if they should file next.

I love it when a plan comes together.

Jesus you’re a moron.

You’re also 100% wrong….as usual.

Maybe don’t get your news from Tyler Durden (He’s the anarchist terrorist nutjob from Fight Club you idiot)…and maybe learn to read.
None of what you claim is in the article you linked.
Every detail you got wrong.

No election was overturned.
The primary is being rerun because of possible interference, no ballot harvesting was proven. The ACCUSATION was ballot stuffing, not harvesting…and it also wasn’t proven.

The person accused of ballot stuffing didn’t win the primary…so you’re wrong on that point too. WTF you brain dead slug?!?
That said, those caught appearing to submit multiple ballots to ballot boxes (something a family member, a police officer, an ELECTION OFFICIAL or a caretaker may do, so may be no crime at all) need to be investigated and prosecuted to the fullest extent to determine IF there was a crime, and if so given the max sentence…right after all the Republicans caught cheating in 2020 and 22 are.

Cheating democrats lose every time…look at Clinton…democrats don’t like cheaters. Only cheating republicans win, not honorable candidates, cheating by ballot harvesting, ballot stuffing, voter roll purging, gerrymandering, double voting (like Trump famously and publicly instructed Republicans to do in 2020), threats of physical violence, actual physical violence, etc, and they are protected by your party of criminals like you just protected MAGA fraud Santos from expulsion for being a total 100% fraud in every way possible AND a fugitive AND an illegal alien (there’s no way he legally immigrated while he was a legal fugitive from Brazil)…repugnacans (repugnant republicans) like yourself think only morons follow rules and the law or tell the truth if it doesn’t benefit them, even when under oath.


In your state it was proven that the Republican filled out thousands of registration cards with his office as the address, and voted using those ballots. He also had staff collect thousands of ballots from nursing homes and fill out any race not voted on for republicans. He’s just one of dozens of republican candidates that were caught cheating elections.

Also….it’s without…not with out.

Bridgeport Election Overturned After City Official Pleads 5th To Ballot Harvesting.
A Bridgeport, Connecticut judge ruled on Wednesday to overturn the city's Democratic primary election after video emerged of a woman who appears to be the city's vice chair of the Democratic Town Committee, Wanda Geter-Pataky, committing ballot fraud.

Those cheating Democrats.
Democrats can't win with out cheating.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/bridgeport-election-overturned-after-city-official-pleads-5th-ballot-harvesting

Republicans caught again purging democratic voters from voting rolls in secret with no notification in multiple states. Caught red handed in Virginia and Ohio, then they lied about it, then lied about how many they purged because they know it’s horrifically anti democratic and unAmerican and wanted to hid as much as possible.

Anti democracy plots and massive cheating are MAGAs only moves. If any MAGgot wins next year, they won’t be recognized as legitimate. MAGA only wins by pure cheating. Proven time and time and time and time again.

Today illegal gerrymandering in Alabama Florida and Georgia has been ruled racist gerrymandering in courts, and clear legal challenges to blatantly gerrymandered congressional districts also are ongoing in Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, New Mexico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Utah. And new districts seem likely in New York and North Carolina, based on previous court actions. MAGA can only win if they cheat in multiple ways…and even then you’re usually losers.



MAGA is a pure anti-American anti-democracy terrorist cult, and you are deep in it. Someone should remove every single one of you idiots from the “still living” rolls. Being MAGA should definitely remove you all from voting rolls, you’re seditionist terrorists, every single one of you. If Trump could actually follow through on his recent promises you would all be expelled from the country for being anti Americans that hate our country.

Treasonous traitors have one sentence….and you are all 100% guilty. Get your affairs in order. If you believe what you say, you believe Dark Brandon’s SS are coming to disappear you. 😂

No, dummy, learn to read…YOU need a narrative of which the graphic visual death is just an incidental part to not be in flagrant, intentional violation of sift rules.

I personally posted the no snuff rule to your profile page, you know undeniably that you are intentionally violating it because you want to show Muslims acting horrifically and pretend it’s happening in a vacuum by offering no other information besides graphic murders.

You should be banned, you only want to ignore guidelines to try to post your false narratives, usually failing miserably.

That you are fighting to keep this snuff propaganda posted (despite it now being age blocked) despite multiple attempts to ban you for intentional violations of sift rules proves you only come here to abuse and are thumbing your nose at the entire community and our rules.

Again, you should be banned…I’ve never said that before, but you have completely lost your shit and all self control since Trump was indicted.

Without a newsworthy narrative, this is pure unadulterated rule violating snuff.

Even YouTube put it behind an age and graphic warning wall, and they allow anything.

I see the underlying narrative…Israeli=innocent victim / Palestinian=murderous monster. By posting the one sided propaganda put out by the Israeli Defense Force it was blatantly obvious to those of us who can think, and conspicuously absent at the same time.

You know full well I think for myself, unlike you who needs any bit of (miss)“information” you’ve ever thought you had fed to them by hyper biased outlets to even grasp the nonsense you believe. You cannot, not once ever, answer a question about any one of your random claims unless the MAGA machine provides you one…and those are always 100% incorrect twaddle. That’s why you disappear in shame at least once a week unable to defend or even explain your utter insanity.

Yes Bob. I learned to form my own opinions and think for myself in first grade. Critical thinking was taught to us quite young. My school was quite advanced and we won the national academic championship in almost every category every year.
You have yet to try. Take your own advice and learn to think…you need to leave the cult FIRST.

@dag and @lucky760…please add my name to the siftquisition request…this is now undeniably intentional. Rules must matter.

Gym Jordan and MAGA failed a third time to elect a speaker. Gym lost the first, second, and third vote to Hakeem Jeffries. Every vote he lost worse.

MORE evidence that MAGA cannot even work with itself, much less others. You people are just fucking children….and you ARE children.

Good job at being a total laughing stock. If it didn’t paralyze our government, it would be hilarious, instead it’s horrifically bad for our economy, international standing, our allies, and our future.

Oh shit….Judge Engoron is prepared to put Trump in prison for intentionally not complying with the gag order by not removing the post accusing his clerk of having an affair with Chuck Schumer from his campaign website. Ruling later today….gonna be great. Bye Donny.

Again, there is no larger story or narrative presented, just pure raw snuff footage. There was no explanation, no manifesto, no reporting at all, just straight murder on film.

It’s not weak mindedness to not enjoy watching violent child murders. 🤦‍♂️
It is definitely against sift rules to post them. I only hope those rules will be enforced.

The issues are important, not the graphic visuals of murders, especially not when you only show those from one side but not the other. I note you neglected to show video of the now thousands of Palestinian civilians and children murdered by the indiscriminate retaliation against civilians, so you absolutely do take sides here, comments or none.
This video is directly from and edited by the Israeli Defense Forces, and is 100% one sided.

What media is “spinning” the conflict? I’ve seen many, all described the attack as unprovoked and brutal, most called it terrorism. What’s not covered is the exponentially larger number of Palestinian civilian victims, despite having about 1/20 the population and no army. What’s often ignored is the inhuman conditions Palestinians are forced to live under, with limited, often no access to food, medicine, power, even water. Zero security, unlike expansionist and genocidal Israel. There’s your spin.

Yes, it’s pure snuff. There is no redeeming information included, just graphic murders on film. That is absolutely 100% clearly forbidden on the sift.

YouTube does not have a strict “no snuff” policy, videosift does and has since it started. Don’t feign ignorance. That said, it is age restricted on YouTube now. This is far from the first time you posted snuff and got called out.

@dag and @lucky760, sorry to involve you, but please make an administrative ruling and delete this if you agree it’s snuff, or rule that it isn’t. I take no position on a ban/siftquisition, but note it has been requested by others.