I'm sorry, I thought I was debating with a vaguely rational person. "Death squad"??

I'm done.>> ^marbles:

>> ^Sarzy:
>> ^marbles:
>> ^Sarzy:
Yep, it's perfectly reasonable to respond to an argument that the discussion is going overboard with Nazi comparisons with a claim that we're in a POLICE STATE, MAN!!!11!!
/bizarro world

You're the one giving the cops a pass. Just doing what they were told right? That's no overboard comparison, so grow up. If you can't defend your statement then don't make it. The fact is there were plenty of apathetic and negligent people in Nazi Germany that sat idly by while people were rounded up and executed.
You would've fit right in. How's that for Nazi comparisons?

I can agree that American drug laws are ridiculous and in serious need of reform. But to make the statement that American drug policy is in any way analogous to what the Nazis were doing in the 1930s and '40s is asinine, and a little bit offensive, quite frankly.
As for whether these officers should have been there? No, probably not. But it's not exactly the murder of millions of people in terms of moral unambiguity. I'm sure someone could make the argument that drug laws need to be enforced with such vigilance (I won't make that argument, because I don't agree with it, but I'm sure someone could). I'm sure many of the cops in question have families to support. Are they supposed to quit their jobs because they disagree with American drug policy?
They identified themselves as best as they could, they went in, and they found themselves with an assault rifle pointed at them. Of course they shot the guy. There's nothing else they could have done, other than wait for the guy to start firing, and hope their kevlar protects them (which it probably wouldn't have against a gun like that).

Nice straw-man. The only thing offensive is your shameless pardon of the death squad. You can make all the excuses you want, it doesn't change the fact they busted his front door, stood outside behind a ballistic shield, and unloaded 70+ rounds. Guerena had probable cause to grab his gun. The death squad didn't follow their own rules of engagement and had no reason to fire. That is straight up criminal homicide.

>> ^Sarzy:

>> ^marbles:
>> ^Sarzy:
Yep, it's perfectly reasonable to respond to an argument that the discussion is going overboard with Nazi comparisons with a claim that we're in a POLICE STATE, MAN!!!11!!
/bizarro world

You're the one giving the cops a pass. Just doing what they were told right? That's no overboard comparison, so grow up. If you can't defend your statement then don't make it. The fact is there were plenty of apathetic and negligent people in Nazi Germany that sat idly by while people were rounded up and executed.
You would've fit right in. How's that for Nazi comparisons?

I can agree that American drug laws are ridiculous and in serious need of reform. But to make the statement that American drug policy is in any way analogous to what the Nazis were doing in the 1930s and '40s is asinine, and a little bit offensive, quite frankly.
As for whether these officers should have been there? No, probably not. But it's not exactly the murder of millions of people in terms of moral unambiguity. I'm sure someone could make the argument that drug laws need to be enforced with such vigilance (I won't make that argument, because I don't agree with it, but I'm sure someone could). I'm sure many of the cops in question have families to support. Are they supposed to quit their jobs because they disagree with American drug policy?
They identified themselves as best as they could, they went in, and they found themselves with an assault rifle pointed at them. Of course they shot the guy. There's nothing else they could have done, other than wait for the guy to start firing, and hope their kevlar protects them (which it probably wouldn't have against a gun like that).


Nice straw-man. The only thing offensive is your shameless pardon of the death squad. You can make all the excuses you want, it doesn't change the fact they busted his front door, stood outside behind a ballistic shield, and unloaded 70+ rounds. Guerena had probable cause to grab his gun. The death squad didn't follow their own rules of engagement and had no reason to fire. That is straight up criminal homicide.

>> ^marbles:

>> ^Sarzy:
Yep, it's perfectly reasonable to respond to an argument that the discussion is going overboard with Nazi comparisons with a claim that we're in a POLICE STATE, MAN!!!11!!
/bizarro world

You're the one giving the cops a pass. Just doing what they were told right? That's no overboard comparison, so grow up. If you can't defend your statement then don't make it. The fact is there were plenty of apathetic and negligent people in Nazi Germany that sat idly by while people were rounded up and executed.
You would've fit right in. How's that for Nazi comparisons?


I can agree that American drug laws are ridiculous and in serious need of reform. But to make the statement that American drug policy is in any way analogous to what the Nazis were doing in the 1930s and '40s is asinine, and a little bit offensive, quite frankly.

As for whether these officers should have been there? No, probably not. But it's not exactly the murder of millions of people in terms of moral unambiguity. I'm sure someone could make the argument that drug laws need to be enforced with such vigilance (I won't make that argument, because I don't agree with it, but I'm sure someone could). I'm sure many of the cops in question have families to support. Are they supposed to quit their jobs because they disagree with American drug policy?

They identified themselves as best as they could, they went in, and they found themselves with an assault rifle pointed at them. Of course they shot the guy. There's nothing else they could have done, other than wait for the guy to start firing, and hope their kevlar protects them (which it probably wouldn't have against a gun like that).

>> ^Sarzy:

Yep, it's perfectly reasonable to respond to an argument that the discussion is going overboard with Nazi comparisons with a claim that we're in a POLICE STATE, MAN!!!11!!
/bizarro world


You're the one giving the cops a pass. Just doing what they were told right? That's no overboard comparison, so grow up. If you can't defend your statement then don't make it. The fact is there were plenty of apathetic and negligent people in Nazi Germany that sat idly by while people were rounded up and executed.
You would've fit right in. How's that for Nazi comparisons?

Big government is bad. I also agree with you.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Military dictatorships are bad. I agree with you.

In reply to this comment by blankfist:
Nazi Germany? Maoist China? Soviet Union? Reality agrees. Boom.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Darfur? Somalia? Reality does not agree with you. Boom.

In reply to this comment by blankfist:
It would stop centralized violence and coercion, which is the type that leads to wars and police states. Boom.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Anarchy would do nothing to stop violence or coercion.

In reply to this comment by blankfist:
However you want to justify is cool. I support your decision. It is a scary thing sometimes to call into a radio show and challenge a nonviolent, non-coercive argument with an argument in favor of violence and coercion. Let me know if you ever get up the courage.

Military dictatorships are bad. I agree with you.

In reply to this comment by blankfist:
Nazi Germany? Maoist China? Soviet Union? Reality agrees. Boom.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Darfur? Somalia? Reality does not agree with you. Boom.

In reply to this comment by blankfist:
It would stop centralized violence and coercion, which is the type that leads to wars and police states. Boom.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Anarchy would do nothing to stop violence or coercion.

In reply to this comment by blankfist:
However you want to justify is cool. I support your decision. It is a scary thing sometimes to call into a radio show and challenge a nonviolent, non-coercive argument with an argument in favor of violence and coercion. Let me know if you ever get up the courage.

Nazi Germany? Maoist China? Soviet Union? Reality agrees. Boom.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Darfur? Somalia? Reality does not agree with you. Boom.

In reply to this comment by blankfist:
It would stop centralized violence and coercion, which is the type that leads to wars and police states. Boom.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Anarchy would do nothing to stop violence or coercion.

In reply to this comment by blankfist:
However you want to justify is cool. I support your decision. It is a scary thing sometimes to call into a radio show and challenge a nonviolent, non-coercive argument with an argument in favor of violence and coercion. Let me know if you ever get up the courage.

>> ^blankfist:

>> ^Peroxide:
Actually blankfist, go to Somalia, I bet you won't get food poisoning there... Or vise versa, if we all stop paying taxes, food poisoning shouldn't be a problem anymore.
How does arguing about the inefficiencies of government show that taxes are theft? It merely shows that your government is inefficient.

Actually, Peroxide, go to Nazi Germany. I bet you'll find the big government nanny state is to your liking there. Or maybe you'd prefer someone like Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini?
Also, I live in Los Angeles now for over ten years. They're about as big a nanny state as you could ask for in the entire USA, and, yes, the government here is terribly inefficient. They take (I meant steal) more money than most other cities in this country, yet they're claiming to be bankrupt. Yes, very inefficient.
So, let me ask you, if the state or city takes money from you in exchange for services, and that exchange of course is compulsory and nonnegotiable, and they take a king's ransom (nearly 10% on sales tax alone), yet cut services because they can't afford not to, how is that not a dereliction of duty? Furthermore, how's compulsory extraction of money not theft?


Try Norway. It's really nice up there.

Nazi germany was socialist-in-name-only. They banned unions/strikes and never had any significant welfare programs. They were virulently anti-communist. The only nationalization of industries was for the wartime production of military goods.

>> ^Peroxide:

Actually blankfist, go to Somalia, I bet you won't get food poisoning there... Or vise versa, if we all stop paying taxes, food poisoning shouldn't be a problem anymore.
How does arguing about the inefficiencies of government show that taxes are theft? It merely shows that your government is inefficient.


Actually, Peroxide, go to Nazi Germany. I bet you'll find the big government nanny state is to your liking there. Or maybe you'd prefer someone like Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini?

Also, I live in Los Angeles now for over ten years. They're about as big a nanny state as you could ask for in the entire USA, and, yes, the government here is terribly inefficient. They take (I meant steal) more money than most other cities in this country, yet they're claiming to be bankrupt. Yes, very inefficient.

So, let me ask you, if the state or city takes money from you in exchange for services, and that exchange of course is compulsory and nonnegotiable, and they take a king's ransom (nearly 10% on sales tax alone), yet cut services because they can't afford not to, how is that not a dereliction of duty? Furthermore, how's compulsory extraction of money not theft?

>> ^bremnet:

"Air raids on non-military targets that claim large numbers of civilian casualties are prohibited under international law". I guess the International Police were busy that day. For people to be shocked by such practices or debate it in the context of whether it is civil or not during war are delusional. It's war after all. (Should the Allies have stopped carpet bombing Germany while millions of other civilians are taken to the death camps because, you know, it's the proper thing to do? My ancestors would have voted no).


How is it better to try to kill everyone in the city--including innocent civilians, Jews, and POWs (like Kurt Vonnegot, who was in Dresden during that attack) than to do a targeted bombing campaign that specifically targets infrastructure, communications, and factories?

"It's war, after all."

You could justify just about anything with that statement, including the indiscriminate use of nuclear and chemical weapons, the execution of POWs, or the flying of jet planes into skyscrapers. It's not delusional to do as much as possible to prevent atrocities from occurring (or re-occurring as the case may be). You may not be able to wage a war without the possibility of an atrocity occurring but that certainly doesn't mean you shouldn't try to limit that possibility as much as possible.

Oh cmon, have some sympathy for the TSA. Imagine having to sit in front of the body scan monitor at an airport looking at random people's bodies. You'd be ready to gouge your eyes out after the first day. If you had to scan someone, wouldn't you choose the more aesthetic looking people?

The problem is that people are being scanned, not who is being scanned and who isn't.

Also the people talking in this video are doucebags.

"Yeah they chose me because I'm hot." Nice train of thought there, Paris.

"Don't you feel like this is germany." I suppose they meant Nazi Germany, considering that these scanners caused quite some outrage in Germany, resulting in the scanner image being toned down to the point were you can't recognize any detailed body features.

>> ^Mikus_Aurelius:

>> ^harry:
And as a herp derp Yurpean, I'm struck by that little American flag there. Is that a fairly normal thing in classrooms?

Students are lead in the pledge of allegiance (to the flag) every morning. So every room where students may start the day needs a flag.


Only in some states. The number of such states increased a bit in the post-911 jingoism. For example in Missouri we had to say the pledge daily until about 1992, then it was removed in favor of actually spending that time learning something, and then in 2002 Missouri's congress passed a law that forced my school district to do the pledge once a week. I think the pledge of allegiance is creepy because it simultaneously resembles both Nazi Germany and The Borg.

This is such bullshit, cops also completely overreact when you spit on them. Don't you see that we're only coating you with a small amount of residue to demonstrate our disrespect? Why do you have to take shit so seriously? I bet this is what it was like in Nazi Germany.

As an observer to the American state, living for most of my life in England and for the last several years in Australia, I am deeply confused about the sort of mass hysteria that seems to be endemic to the conservative collective.

Australian politics confuse the hell out of me, but England certainly has conservatives and politicians on the right - some sensible and others depraved - but the United Kingdom Independence Party and the British National Party are on the Goddamned fringe. BNP are oftentimes called fascists, UKIP are singled out for their purely nationalistic desire for European secession.

In the recent elections, the mid-right Conservative party formed a coalition with the leftist Liberal Democrats, with a good deal of compromise in both parties' manifestos and policies.

From what I've seen, this could never happen in modern America; genuine co-operation between differing parties, combining their efforts for the good of the nation. The "tea party" movement is an example of an American-conservative lunacy that has somehow spread itself through the country like a Goddamned plague. Why the vitriol? Why the pointless rage? Why the lies and deception, and why is it necessary for Republicans to act like the little bitch party? Here's a bill! Oh, the democrats like it? Fuck that bill! Democrats hate America!

Surely everyone who regards themself as a nationalist, as these people obviously do, should commit themselves to the benefit of the nation, not the inconvenience and demonization of the "other side".

Glenn Beck, among others, invokes Godwin's Law at every opportunity, drawing direct and deliberate comparisons between Obama and Hitler, the ruling administration and Nazi Germany, and then continue to accuse the government of propagandism, fascism and socialism.

The only faction I can see Goebbels patting on the back is Fox News and the Republican right. Facts and reality do not conform to your notion of what the world should be, regardless of how hard you try to warp the truth. Fuck Iran and fuck North Korea, the Republicans are the ones I'm REALLY scared of having nukes.

Seriously though, if I'm allowed one more paragraph, could someone explain why the conservatives and their groupies are so oftentimes retarded? Did the Civil War never end, with a psychological/social continuation of that greatest of rifts creeping its way into the modern day? Why are Liberals bad, why is the truth never enough, and exactly why are they so fanatical that America is the greatest country in the world?

yah there are load sof people in the UK that just dont get it ,

they dont reolise that in the end whats required ( as is almost always the case) is a ballence of goverment regulatoin to stop supe rmonoalies and welth migratoin to the super rich. and allow for a open market that is still competative through all levels .

people who think that a "free unregulated " market is the best idea are just compleaty ignorent to the realities that not everyone is on a level playing faild to start with.

its like in motersport saying IT SHOULD BE TOTALY UNREGULATED and what you would get is the team that started with the most money winning all the time. which would result in a lack of competitoin and no real piont in taking part in the race.


>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

>> ^NordlichReiter:
>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
A tea bagger who trades his Joker mask for a Guy Fawkes mask is still a tea bagger.
Sorry to dash your free market fantasies, buddy, but you should know that the banking industry would whole-heartedly agree with your call for less 'state interference'. They made a lot of money through predatory lending due to deregulation and a lack of 'state interference'. The public was much better off when it had more oversight and control over the banking industry. The 'free' market capitalist thinking that has influenced our leaders since Reagan has made things worse, not better.
Downvoted for calling the other protesters fascists. Nazi Germany was a capitalist society.

Yep he's a tea bagger, being British and all.

Brits can't be free market fundies, too?