Tell the people at Jonestown that.
They won't contradict you.....but they do contradict you.

..what the actual fuck.. @_@..

Your justification to defense of heinous behavior is..
"but at least he was funny or 'naturally' talented"?!

That is batshit crazy logic. (and waaay creepier considering your username and avatar)

Firstly:
You could literally make this argument about every awful person/thing on the planet.

"ISIS? They're not ALL bad. They support the local economy"

"Jim Jones of Jonestown Massacre? He helped a lot of people find happiness and acceptance. "

"Sure the Atlantic Slave Trade was bad. But think of all the great civil rights leaders that.. um.. we wouldn't have had.. to have had.. otherwise.."


Secondly:
Awful shit is just awful!
And should ALWAYS overshadow any "good" accomplishments a person does.

Disgrace, dishonor, shame, scorn, condemnation, disdain are all words that represent an idea for a reason.

If society doesn't distinguish and stigmatize shitty people & their supporters.. it validates and normalizes their actions & behavior.

You're effectively arguing that as long as someone does at least ONE noteworthy or impressive accomplishment..

Society should still admire them to a degree.. or at least not solely define them by.. their overwhelmingly disgusting, fundamentally wrong behavior.



Again.. @_@ wtaf??!?

Look at shinyblurry- smart but clearly crippled by unhelpful dogma that has exacerbated rather than reduced the inherent existential trauma in being a conscious organism apparently spontaneously existing in a mindbogglingly vast and uncaring Universe (even these minimalist words are necessarily reductive). He can justify bombing, spreading aids and even openly destroying the environment for personal economic gain to accelerate the 'day of judgement'. (No joke, all in HIS posts on THIS SITE).

Also, you should learn more about the Jonestown massacre before speaking so causally about people desperate enough to knowingly drink poison and give it to their children in the hope that it will somehow make things better.

You need to start making more sense fast Yogi or those with brains are going to consider you a fool and stop wasting time on you.

Pretty sure the reference to drinking liquid from a dixie cup to send you to heaven is all-in on parody.

Upvote for:
... and putting that on my computer felt like leaving a child of my own in the Jonestown daycare center.
I felt dirty afterwards. I had to take a Steam bath. That's where you load up Steam and download a bunch of indie games to scrub yourself with.

>> ^VoodooV:

gee, shiny resorts to harassment? color me shocked!
I'm sorry, but ill say it again, people like shiny need to be kicked out of here. It has nothing to do with conservatism or religion, these people simply don't contribute to civil discourse. I know plenty of conservative/religious people who are capable of engaging in civil debate and discourse, Shiny or QM, and others aren't among these people
They drop their talking points and move on to the next sift. That's not debate, that's not discourse. And you certainly can't have rational discussions with someone who no matter what, thinks you need to be saved and doesn't view you as an equal human being and him and his god are always correct and you're always wrong. It's not conducive to rational discussion and quite frankly, it's simply not healthy, period.
And yes, it is trolling.
Remember that even though they seem to be an endangered species, there are actual rational right wingers out there. You may disagree with them, but they can actually debate civilly without regurgitating Fox News or Theistic propaganda.


This is such an old response and thread, but I thought I'd say it anyway as I really want it said in here.

I've met, actually, a great many people that are very set in their theistic mindset, but like you said they also don't think I'm going to burn in a pit of fire come the end of time; in fact quite a few of them would be morally outraged if such a thing occurred--as they literally know, like me, that the difference between believing in God and not, is merely a thought away (or you could say, one neuron connection/pathway away).

There are a few that believe in fire and brimstone type things, but they only--typically--reserve it for the greatest of crimes (like an Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot). Even fewer still that believe that there is a harsh judgment remaining for a lot of people, but they tend to believe that there is a way to "return" or to repent there--in the "lake of fire" and come back a new person.

BUT, the ones that think there IS a hell, absolute and horrifying in all it's glory, these are ALSO the very same people that cannot have a rational discussion with you. It's very strange. It's as though their ability to actively decide whether actions in play are moral or not are by definition an unanswerable question until they have been told by someone ELSE what that answer is: either the Bible, other religious members, or talk show hosts, and you get my picture. THESE are the dangerous people.

It reminds me of the story in the Old Testament, in Numbers 15:32-36 (for those that wish to read it). Now I know many *newer* religions, get around this stuff by saying they use the New Testament (it has it's fun stuff too, but for now, let's just do this one) due to Christ's Salvation and his, yada yada yada yada yada--I heard this for a long time myself as a Mormon and in some Catholic services I went to.

This guy collects what is essentially firewood on the Sabbath (this was back in the day when not having a fire active in your house/hut/tent/whatever at night could literally mean death--in case you've never been out camping/hiking, fires are VERY important and are a DAMNED LUXURY with our matches, steel wool, sleeping bags made to hold in heat, and other items that make a night in the wilderness go by--gently and one could say comfortably fun).

Instead of just collecting this firewood, making a meal and going to bed, this guy gets caught for working on the Sabbath and is taken to Moses and Aaron. So we all know what that little commandment this is, the one EVERYONE disobeys now (It goes by either of these two definitions and there are more versions--trust me: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. -OR- Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.). So God buzzes Moses on the iGodphone™ and tells Moses the bad news, or well the good news and the bad news. The bad news is that "unnamed villager" will be taken outside the encampment, with what sounds like most of the people and then stoned to death. The good news, is they get to stone someone (sorry, but back then and with the regularity of which stoning happened I really think people enjoyed it when these edicts came on down...)!

SO, I've seen this tale said many a time and I CANNOT believe the amount of heads I see move up and down while this is repeated. They LITERALLY agree with cold-blooded murder in the first-degree, for GATHERING FIREWOOD!!! In the damned ages BEFORE the Dark Ages-life SUCKED! You NEEDED FIRE!!! It wasn't a question of maybe I'll skip it tonight it was a matter of when do I start it up--every night! So you can see why people like this can be dangerous as someone from on high that they think is their leader gives them what essentially is a crime, they don't think to long about it--they act, and carry out whatever truly horrifying act it was.

This has been abused by many Cult leaders, like the "Alien Comet riders" or also known as Heaven's Gate in California or something even MORE horrifying like Jonestown (something that was horrific--there are some GREAT documentaries on this to watch,; I suggest looking for them) or something semi-recent like (straight from wiki), "The 778 deaths of members of the Ugandan group Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God, on March 17, 2000, is considered to be a mass murder and suicide orchestrated by leaders of the group.", so you can see while large religions don't do these WILD events they DO slowly in fact do smaller and incrementally increase their crimes.

You might ask what crimes, but it is literally crimes that we can point to that are AGAINST the VERY FABRIC of your own teachings. Use the Golden Rule in your life and get rid of the authority driven craziness, it will only lead you to sadness, if you're a zealot--fight it within yourself.
--------

So, anyway, what I'm saying is that I very much agree that there ARE many people that are theistic believers (not just Christan ones mind you) that are GREAT to talk to and many times you don't even have to argue with them you can have laid back conversations with them--it's amazing who you run into.

BUT, for the people I mentioned they are nearly lost causes. I don't know exactly what their problem is but it does have something to do with the fact that they MUST be told a "truth" by a "high-ranking-official" for them to change a stance. They are TRUE believers, ZEALOTS to their cause and dangerous.

A little bit the same as you said @VoodooV, but I thought I'd add a few more nails into that coffin.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'matt jonestown massacre, acting, solo' to 'matt jonestown massacre, acting, solo, badger' - edited by dag

The Brian Jonestown Massacre's 'Spanish Bee' set to a Preponderance re-imagining of Reza Dolatabadi's work Khoda .

(Summary here for link above; link didn't seem to work in video summary)

"The idea that the group is coming together in a community, and that Miller is developing a compound, in my opinion, is ominous. Because only the most extreme cults isolate themselves in a compound: Jonestown, or Waco, Davidian Group"... Vatican City...

I love that the first part of his comment makes him sound afraid of people "coming together in a community".

>> ^Sagemind:

When someone says "Drink some Kool-aid and sleep like a baby" - I think of something else altogether different.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown


You do have a point. However that's why I specifically wrote "Drank" to ebonicaly identify the difference.

When someone says "Drink some Kool-aid and sleep like a baby" - I think of something else altogether different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown

He certainly had made no such assertion by the time you went nuts and I don't think he has since, but I might have missed something.

Lisa's death was negligent homicide at worst. I'm not saying that's ok, I'm just trying to keep it in perspective. Josephus's death is very strange, but there has been no evidence of foul play, that I'm aware of. It certainly doesn't look good for COS, but the evidence to claim they are responsible is not there either.

I don't have any love for COS, but I also see it as a drop in the bucket. It seems to get a disproportionate slice of the rage pie, to me.

The COS may well be insane, but it's neither illegal nor immoral to be insane. [side note: Is it really correct to refer to a mass suicide as a massacre?]

The problem isn't your indignance, it's your off-the-wall outrage at Yogi. Most of the things you're raging over aren't even things he's said; they're things you've put in his mouth. You repeatedly misrepresent his statements and then hulk out over what you yourself said.

Don't talk about Yogi's "weak arguments" when you've so far failed to make any arguments at all.

While this may be insulting, I hope you'll recognize it as a critique rather than an insult. You undercut your own position when you act like this in a debate, at least in the eyes of the people who matter: the opponents. Putting together a convincing argument in the eyes of the people who already agree with you may get you comment upvotes, but it doesn't make any progress when it comes to popularizing your views.

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

Look, the only reason I said anything was cause Yogi asserts that Scientology is unimportant & is no threat to humanity's well being, which clearly isn't true.
Look at these photos of Lisa McPherson and Josephus Havenith then tell me again that the Church of Scientology is "mostly innocuous".
It's quite evident that CoS's ideology is on par with Jonestown massacre level of insanity.
You're essentially stating that the terrified mothers & husbands clutching there babies willing committed suicide and we shouldn't waste our time with things like that.
Hence, the "sick fuck" comment.
So excuse me for being indignant, it just irritates the fuck out of me to hear a person defend the atrocious behaviors of any religion or abusive organization. Especially with such weak arguments.

@Yogi and @xxovercastxx

Look, the only reason I said anything was cause Yogi asserts that Scientology is unimportant & is no threat to humanity's well being, which clearly isn't true.

Look at these photos of Lisa McPherson and Josephus Havenith then tell me again that the Church of Scientology is "mostly innocuous".

It's quite evident that CoS's ideology is on par with Jonestown massacre level of insanity.

You're essentially stating that the terrified mothers & husbands clutching there babies willing committed suicide and we shouldn't waste our time with things like that.

Hence, the "sick fuck" comment.

So excuse me for being indignant, it just irritates the fuck out of me to hear a person defend the atrocious behaviors of any religion or abusive organization. Especially with such weak arguments.

wow, never expected to hear that song in mainstream media.

Straight Up and Down by The Brian Jonestown Massacre. All but their latest music can be downloaded free here:
http://www.bjmarchives.com/disco/disco.htm

This song is on Take it from the Man!
http://www.bjmarchives.com/disco/takeit.htm

Series looks good too!