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It must be nice living in a world without shades of gray.

You keep wanting to paint me as someone who condones their religious/extremist views. The point I've been trying to make, and that you keep wanting to avoid, is that not all of them are true believers - and that those who join the Taliban for religious reasons are not the same as those who join for nationalist reasons. Observe the same trend in the American army - some do it for personal reasons, some do it for America, and some do it for Christ. Is it so hard to believe the bad guys forces might have the same factions?

Official protocol eh? Rendition, waterboarding etc. etc. is all official protocol. Does this condemn all members of the armed forces? Or just the ranking members who make policy? Hmmm...

Praising God condemns them all? Visit any American base abroad and count how many go to church or pray regularly. Hmmmm....

Definition of the Taliban eh? Thats a good idea. From Wikipedia:

The Taliban, alternative spelling Taleban,[5] (Pashto: طالبان ṭālibān, meaning "students") is a Wahhabi Islamist political movement that governed Afghanistan from 1996 until it was overthrown in late 2001. It has regrouped since 2004 and revived as a strong insurgency movement governing mainly local Pashtun areas during night and fighting a guerrilla war against the governments of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF)

I see the Islamist political movement...and then I see insurgency. I have no doubts the Islamic extremists run the show. I also have no doubts the insurgency (Nationalist) aspect is a big draw in recruiting. Much like Al-Qaeda, the Taliban recruits based on resentment and anger towards imperial powers. You know this, I'm sure.

There's no such thing as a moderate Taliban member? Says who? You'll have to provide more than your word on that one. I'll rely on practicality and realism.

I had no intention of lumping you in with the Fox News assholes. I was meaning to display the various political factions within any given movement - devout doesn't always mean extremist. Not every American pastor or Priest is a Phelps supporter at heart - and not every Afghan insurgent is a wahhabist at heart. You see that, don't you?

I'm guessing many of them signed up to fight the Imperial invaders, not just to woman-beat and Jew-hate. If that were the case, you wouldn't see the informants and intelligence sources from within Taliban-held areas that Americans and other NATO forces rely on for intel, would you?

I despise extremist religious/political philosophy as much as you do. But, I also understand that I would sign up with the nearest big group of assholes in my part of the world if it meant we could better fight off foreign invaders.

>> ^LostTurntable:

I am also well aware that some American/Canadian/British/Australian soldiers are assholes who have killed innocent women and children. Does that make all of the soldiers in those armed forces assholes? Nope.
Yes, but the Allied forces who have done horrible things aren't acting on official protocol. Taliban terrorists who attack and murder women are doing so because their ideology dictates that's okay.
I highly doubt that all Taliban fighters are crazed religious or social extremists.
Go back and count how many times they praise God in that video. Even if not every soldier is a die-hard member of the Taliban (and in that video, they all were) they are part of an extremist Islamic political movement. That is the definition of the Taliban. Look it up.
They are also inhuman savages that beat women for no reason. That's also a fact. It is a strict part of the Taliban idealogy, they go hand-in-hand. Breaking that rule is paramount to breaking any other rule set by the Taliban. There's no such thing as a "moderate" Taliban member.
And for fuck's sake don't lump me in with the Faux News idiots and the anti-"Mosque" assholes. You want to build a mosque on Ground Zero? Go nuts. Build 80. Because the people in NYC who want to build a mosque AREN'T THE FUCKING TALIBAN.
I am sure that many people in Afghanistan do not want the US forces there. But there are just as many who don't want the Taliban there. Saying "not all Taliban soldiers are bad" is like saying "not all Nazi soldiers are bad" that may be true, but they are supporting a cause that is without a doubt entirely evil. So fuck them. They made their choice to sign up with woman-beating, Jew-hating, freedom-denying (and yes, these guys actually do hate freedom, as sad as it is. Under Taliban rule you aren't allowed to speak your mind, do what you want or even listen to music.) assholes who deserve to die.

>> ^Throbbin:
Don't be simple.
I am well aware of the acid attacks. I am also well aware that some American/Canadian/British/Australian soldiers are assholes who have killed innocent women and children. Does that make all of the soldiers in those armed forces assholes? Nope.
I highly doubt that all Taliban fighters are crazed religious or social extremists. I'd bet a good amount of money that many of them joined up because they don't want Team America there. I probably would have if I were in their shoes, and I'm not religious in any way.
"He's a warlord" - yeah, and how much do you want to bet General Petraeus has a summer home and a regular home?
They want everyone who doesn't agree with them out - sounds like the ultra conservatives in America and Canada. Have you seen any of the anti-immigration or anti-NY-mosque rallies lately?
I'm not pro-Taliban, but I am pro-truth. And the truth is that not all Talibanis are crazed religious extremists, and that once in awhile it's a good idea to remember that the people we are fighting (in their country) are people too, not just maniacs like the MSM would have you believe.
>> ^LostTurntable:
Surprise surprise - the "bad guys" aren't all evil monstrous brutal animals. Some of them are just normal folks who resent Team America invading their country and telling them what to do.
I guess he wasn't invited on the mission where Taliban forces attacked schoolgirls with acid.
I understand the war is a complicated issue, but these are holy warrior assholes who enslave women for their own perverted satisfaction. Notice how the commander used to have several houses? You think he got them via good stark market deals/ No, he's a warlord.
These are also religious zealots. They don't just want "Team America" out. They want everyone who doesn't agree with them out. Or dead. Preferably dead.
You can be against the war, that's great. But don't be pro-Taliban.

Wow, I have never really liked Michael Moore, but these comments are particularly silly.

He says to get out of Afghanistan (because we have no right to be there), apologize and then offer help to rebuild when they work out their own situation.

1. The ISAF (International Security Assistance Force) is in Afghanistan at the request of the elected government of Afghanistan. While there was some electoral fraud on the part of the current ruling party, his main adversary, Dr. Abdullah Abdullah, would likely have asked for the ISAF's assistance as well. In his words, "the international community played an active and effective presence, and, with its extensive financial, political and military assistance, supported the formation and establishment of a legal and elected state." Remember, this is the main rival to the democratically elected President of Afghanistan. You would think that if the people wanted us out of their country it would be advantageous for a politician to make our removal part of his platform but he doesn't even mention that in any of his election documents. Further, as a member of the Canadian Forces, I know first-hand that the people there largely appreciate what the international community is doing: fighting their enemies.

2. You can't rebuild when there is no stability. It would be nice if we could go in and just build schools and powerplants and wells and hospitals and leave but that's not the way it works. There are still a lot of people in Afghanistan who will make it their goal to chop off the head of the teacher at the school, or blow up the powerplants, or poison the wells or bomb the hospitals. While we are doing our best building infrastructure for the Afghani people, we are also fighting and dying to make sure no one destroys that infrastructure. It's guaranteed that if we left now all we have worked for will be in the shitter and it wont be long before Afghanistan is under the thumb of the Taliban and harboring terrorists with international targets.

Yep, I was just about to make that comment. ISAF isn't the same as IAF. Also, our first aid trucks don't have a red cross on them, we have a red David's Shield, and our stop signs look different, and don't have the word "Stop" in the middle.

So @gwiz665, not those damn Israelis again, no
>> ^schmawy:

The truck says ISAF on the side.

The truck says ISAF on the side.

Forces the IDF? Please.

The IDF has total discretion in picking its targets, they wanted to bomb them so they did, the US and ISAF forces don't even bomb areas in Iraq and Afghanistan if they know it could result in needless civilian casualties.

The GAU-8 Avenger on the A-10 Warthog is meant as a Anti-Tank weapon thus it is loaded with a combat mix munitions composed of Armor Piercing Incendiary (DU) and High Explosive Incendiary rounds.

"The GAU-8 Avenger fires a mix of both high explosive incendiary (HEI) and armored piercing incendiary (API) ammunition. A typical combat load for the GAU-8 would include 1,100 rounds of 30mm high explosive or armor piercing ammunition. The 30mm API is mixed with 30mm High Explosive Incendiary (HEI) at the factory and is called Combat Mix Ammunition. The ratio of API to HEI rounds in the Combat Mix is 4:1. Combat mix is a sequential mixture of DU and HEI rounds in which 1 HEI round followed by 4 DU rounds are fired by the AN/GAU-8 gatling gun. DU is the primary munition for the A/OA-10 in a combat environment."
FAS Article on the GAU-8 Avenger.

The combat mix is a practice solution for what is essentially a belt fed system in the air, changing munitions out is not ideal within a combat zone where targets of opportunity would change requiring a change of attack profile, the A-10 landing and switching out rounds would not work.

I believe this is a video from Afghanistan not Iraq. CAS is provided by US forces for International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), which is an operation of NATO nations including the U.S. BBC News would report casualties, while close calls like this is a daily occurence for operations both in Afghanistan and Iraq. This was from MilitaryVideos.com

"I dont know about this specific vehicle, but the new APC's looks more like a tank, take a look at the CV90, for example:
http://www.norvetnet.no/gfx/bilder/isaf/isaf-cv90_small.jpg"


ISAF = NATO forces. Definitely NOT American. Not only that, but if it were, it would have started with "M" - When's the last time something in the American military didn't?

>> ^BicycleRepairMan:
Something like the M113 would be an APC. The BFV is not a carrier, but a fighting vehicle.
I dont know about this specific vehicle, but the new APC's looks more like a tank, take a look at the CV90, for example:
http://www.norvetnet.no/gfx/bilder/isaf/isaf-cv90_small.jpg

First, I offer this as evidence that I know what I'm talking about. Yes Thats me. A younger me, but me. So about as much proof as I can offer with out throwing a years worth of pictures at you.

Ok I have no idea what that vehicle is. It's not American, and probably isn't bad-ass enough to have been covered in my Armored Vehicle Recognition class.
What makes a "tank" a Tank, is the size of the barrel and rounds, not whether or not it has tracks.

And as far as road damage - No it does not damage the roads. Like I said, i used to drive that exact vehicle, and I've seen the Ambrams as well, there is no damage. Even the M88 wrecker. You'll recognize it as the vehicle that pulled down the Hussein statue. It is the largest tracked vehicle that I have seen. Get back at me later once i get my portable HD back from my buddy ill show you an M88 lifting my BFV.


The tracks are not just metal bands. Each track shoe has a track pad made of rubber. The most damage it does is leave black scuff marks everywhere in the motor pool that "Joe" has to sweep up on Friday before we could go home.

Something like the M113 would be an APC. The BFV is not a carrier, but a fighting vehicle.

I dont know about this specific vehicle, but the new APC's looks more like a tank, take a look at the CV90, for example:
http://www.norvetnet.no/gfx/bilder/isaf/isaf-cv90_small.jpg

Whoa, the Taliban had an armored vehicle? I never thought about that possibility. Then again, it's probably not surprising that a few of the old Russian vehicles left in-country can still work; put gas in it, stick a machine gun on the roof mount, and you have a relatively strong mini-tank that can cruise around and stitch up ISAF troops (until the antitank weapons come out).

A well-done TV spot, although the implication that the war is purely bad for Afghanistan (that's the last flag) seems simplistic to me. It's true there are civilian deaths occurring and there will be for as long as the fight goes on. But if (and I grant, this is a big if) the ISAF troops end up getting rid of the Taliban's fundamentalist theocracy and actually do get some form of democracy going, the Afghanis will be much better off than they were before.