Note that this debate circle mostly around rights in the public services.

Some events that been push through this debate's strainer since some years now, to name a few:
A young Sikh men brought is Kirpan(tradional knife) to the elementary school. Should he be allowed to do so ?
In name of religion, a Muslim man refused to pass his driver's license test with a woman instructor.
Orthodox Jews required that windows giving view to women exercising be shaded in a community gym
Some muslims community are asking to be legally freed from work or study for the Friday noon prayer and be accommodate to do so.
In Ontario some people are legaly charge upon the Charia, should the Quebec allow such thing

Actual "Liberal" government (traditionally on the right) (generally get the early generation immigrant electorate) push the so called "reasonable accommodation" policy in public services kind of by opposition to the France "secular" policy in the public services. Reasonable accomodation advocate the right of expression in public services of religious symbol for main religion. The nationalist party (traditionally on the left)is pandering to the right wing of its party (the openly progressive and pro-union wing have been expelled from the party last week) and it's feeding what i'd called a negative nationalism which go along intolerance and racism on this issue.

This debate is now raging for more than a year here, although I didn't get into it, for the terms of the debate are completely distorted by partisan politics, and intermingled with emotional response arising from the erosion, or the fear of it, of "traditional culture". Consequences of a geopolitical-cultural encirclement and the ever-growing cultural and economic globalization.

So I didn't thought thoroughly about it. As for now, the questions i'm asking myself, is to where you draw the line ? What if my belief says that I should go naked to school ? Which beliefs will have rights and which won't ?

Hope that your distance will enable my fellow sifters to see clearer in this debate and help me by ricochet.

Red

>> ^deathcow:
> the Dag household has been TVless for going on 11 years.
TV isn't all shit you know...



So for all ya folks who took some sort of offense at the idea that I believe folks here are morons??? Gert real. Only a few of you are indulging that outer moron screaming to go back in. As I have maintained here on the site for some time, after having to stomach the ceaseless editorializing about what should be common-sense moral and ethical questions, the fine-points of God VS No God according to fucking GARP, and the attention to political bullshit rhetoric paid when the proper AND reasonable human response to the condition of the same in the world is to SHUT IT THE FUCK OFF, AND THROW ALL THOSE SICK MOTHERFUCKERS OUT, TELEVISION, and the propaganda and newspeak that disguises itself as reality thereon, is a major reason this place has become a clearing house for the mentally ill, sexually frustrated, and the "who wants to see my douchebag" crowd. The latter I would venture to guess, were not raised on the programming coming out of the cathode ray shitstain exclusively( your retarded parents who raised you were), but on a combo-platter of Internet foolishness, Telly, videogames, porn, and a cadre of dysfunctional fuck-ups, lovingly referred to as, "Parents." Sorry, just calling it the way any reasonable soul should see it-ALL COMPLETE DIVERSIONS DESIGNED TO ROB HUMANS OF LIFE....and the freedom to fuck anything they want.

Society is in flux, ever changing, and becoming more non-linear with each passing second. The CHALLENGE we all face as humans being, with a view to self-conscious awareness, is to see through the muck created by living in a world where some men struggle to maintain dominance over others while others simply wish to be, is to rise above the fucking illusion and embrace the essence of the shit, prior to having to check out of the place. Always has been, always will be.

GeoPolitics is the illusion created by those first types of fucking assholes, the fucks who would tell me, of all people, what they should and shouldn't, can't and can do. Fuck You, I can decide that for myself, and if I had a clan, or a tribe, for about 50 others.... Fuck it, make it a hundred...we need people that like to dig holes and plant stuff. Religion? Religions are a good thing.They give us all something to aspire to, whatever the fuck that may be. Including Scientology and born-again Christains. Clever bunch of folks dreamed that shit up, more power to em. Greed and power got the best of most of em, and they turned douchebag real quick....that's the nature of mankind struggling to admit that they don't want to fuck themselves in their own ass. Most fail miserably and DON'T end up fucking that tender rusty sheriff's badge a few times.

Now to the douchebags who still don't have a clue, after all my work here to convince them otherwise....GET A FUCKING LIFE ALREADY! Stop trying to figure out why I say and do what I do here to stir up shit, and look in a fucking mirror, when the assumptions and accusations begin to fly-You are me and I am you...end a-fucking story.

Namaste, peace, the Virgin Mary wants to skull fuck you all while L. Ron watches, and good night....And THAT'S, the end of the news. we now return you to your regularly programmed schedule.

>> ^cybrbeast:
I thought choggie was a radical free market person, I guess not.
I really see no big problem with there being fast food. It's the responsibility of parents to eat well and feed their children well. But I guess most people are just to lazy, poor or uneducated.


I am radical free-market cyberbeast-the world of the now resembles nothing akin to a free market economy, the definition most wankers understand it as is a theoretical concept at best, as every country on the planet has been groomed to march in lock-step to something completely removed from such a noble idea. Supply and demand can only work when masses of monkeys are not constantly indoctrinated by corporate fucks and bombarded with lies and deceit by a geopolitical machine which works to concentrate resources and labor to benefit the few-The so-called new world order or future of mankind or whatever the fuck you wanna call being herded into cattle cars involves a few people controlling the vast majority of well-groomed imbeciles, who have been taught from the cradle to follow orders-The only country who is not willing to necessarily follow the European Aristocratic/Corporate model is China, but they have a small group of criminals there who would that they be worshiped as gods as well-it's simply not occidental.

In an actual "free market", there is no bullshit-I give you a "dollar" or some service, entertainment, or product, you compensate me in-kind. I can deal in arms, cocoa, opium, cotton-candy, pussy, or whatever the fuck I care to taking whatever risk or leisure there is is involved, and I answer to no-one but natural law-more of a free-market anarchist if you will.

By all means, make as many laws as you care to regarding commerce or the exchange of goods and services: The wise man will prosper who is willing to risk all or nothing to accomplish his will within any system-only abrupt changes from outside of contrived systems will help the individual at this point in history...like maybe a comet or some worldwide upheaval.

His book should be required reading in every high school classroom, forever. When he says that the world pulled their troops out of Rwanda it is a gross understatement. Belgium, that was providing the bulk of the forces there not only pulled their forces out, but pressed charges against their returning officers from Rwanda for 'putting their men in harms way'. Belgium had lost 10 soldiers after all, so the Belgians were understandably angry and outraged by their country's tragic and unacceptable loss. Meanwhile 800,000 Rwandan's where being murdered by the same crew that killed the Belgian soldiers.

The lessons about geopolitical apathy to be learned from Dallaire's book are vitally important. Evil has many faces and he saw them all in Rwanda.

Conservatives were unhappy with the marketing for the recent Superman movie also because it altered the tagline, "Fighting for truth, justice, and the American way," leaving off the "American way" part.

Movies typically receive around 1/2 of their box office revenue from the international market, so in order to fund their movies, they need to make sure they're in line with the global culture as well, not just the domestic culture. The global culture and general geopolitical landscape in the World War II and Cold War periods, from which these taglines derived, was pretty different from the situation today.

you stated about the "thermite babble".
ok...that should be a topic of discussion


I would disagree, it should NOT be a topic of discussion. It deserves as much discussion as questions about Obama's birth certificate. It is a waste of time. I will gladly try to clarify the 'thermite babble' with friends, family and people I meet who believe it, I consider at least attempting that discussion worthwhile. I will avoid listening to hours of video that includes the 'thermite babble', that is relatively worthless.

I consider it akin to refuting the latest cult of the day. I consider watching Scientology's latest video to be relatively worthless. I do however consider discussing Scientology with friends, family and people I meet who don't know it's a scam worthwhile. I've already picked up enough about Hubbard that I really don't see the need for anymore proof for the truth of things. I don't feel a need to spend days and nights going through every piece of teaching anyone in Scientology has ever come out with before rejecting it all as not worth my time and a bad source for useful information. I consider videos that believe in the thermite myth to be in the same category of proven non-utility.


the "conspiracy theory" we were given and the questions therein have never been fully answered by the american government.


I'm not sure which 'conspiracy' you refer to. For certain I agree lots of what happened around 9/11 has not been answered, in particular a lot of what happened immediately after. My previous point though ties into my response here. Videos talking about thermite are one of the poorest places to go looking for those answers. The answer to the biggest question though is clear. Al-Qaeda was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. The proper response to that is littered with a lot of smoke and mirrors and a century of geo-politics, and I don't see any of the trailers for these videos looking as promising sources for wading through that.


i have no problem with disagreements,but at least digest the material before you critique said material.


Well, I've now watched the two that looked the most worthwhile.

"War Made Easy" didn't provide a single piece of novel information, and was little more than archived news footage with a one sided commentary read by Sean Penn. I learnt nothing as expected and wouldn't reccomend it to anyone. I'd in fact argue against someone not informed about recent history watching it for the very false image that it protrays of recent history taken all by itself without knowing the things the film leaves out.

"Why We Fight" confirms what I said I expected as the high mark of the videos. It includes some new footage and interviews, although the information found in those videos that is new/novel is trivial in nature. The major points and facts it does present are all available in other places, and with better context. More over, it presents an extremely one sided picture and works more strongly as a propaganda piece than as an informative work.

For anyone under the delusion that corruption isn't rampant in American government, this video has important information. There are better sources for that information though, and to be honest no video is likely to persuade people so deluded anyways. In the real world though, one has to actually look beyond the state of America and look also at the geopolitics of the places it is in conflict with. Yes, we all know Cheney is corrupt and his actions have been criminal, that isn't the final word on the Iraq conflict. In many ways, that fact is barely a footnote.

Both videos, as I've said elsewhere, follow the same road to failure as the mainstream media, and the same road to failure they themselves decry. That failure is the oversimplfication of geo-politics and it's causes. Both videos present the problem in American foreign policy as simply being too militaristic, and the solution as simple as reducing military spending or better media coverage of arising conflicts. If only the world where truly that simple. In reality things are vastly more complicated, and there is a wealth of video, interviews, and documentaries that attempt to investigate and reveal the layers of that complexity. These videos though are no where near that world.

Here's the original Sith Lord of Geopolitics, Henry Kissinger on the situation in Iran and America's response so far.



Talking on BBC Newsnight Kissinger says that while the US will not intervene in the current crisis, if the coup fails and a "popularly based" government is not installed (ie. the one he wants), then "we may conclude that we must work for regime change in Iran from the outside".

I respect you deeply, Farhad. I hope one day we will find common ground, but in the mean time, our debates are... informative. If anything, I'm not afraid to change my mind and you can pat yourself on the back knowing you are the reason that I have on at least a few subjects.

In reply to this comment by Farhad2000:
Doc_M

I constantly disagree with you on most social and geopolitical issues but am glad you are around to have these conversations with.

Cheers.

Doc_M

I constantly disagree with you on most social and geopolitical issues but am glad you are around to have these conversations with.

Cheers.

"...have to hold themselves fully accountable to the law. And that is the problem the Republicans and conservatives have"

Why do people continually make distinctions between republicrats and demicons? Party affiliation has very little to do with this issue. So what if water boarding is torture or not? For some, having to listen to people take sides with either party while discussing the politics of the United States is torture. For some, it's excruciating torture to have people who are seemingly educated, with the alleged ability to think critically, continually taking sides with one hydra's head or the other-Almost as mind-numbingly mundane as seeing video after video on the dead-horse subject of whether or not water boarding is torture.
Jesus, why not discuss whether or not the programming of a nation to take one side or the other on an issue is acceptable or healthy? Robotic media junkies with walking papers from the majority of secondary schools or universities in the western hemisphere somehow tend to become more and more self-righteous and religious in their fervor, as the geopolitical chaos becomes increasingly non-linear.

The semantics of the present day represented in a great deal of threads here on Videosift with political themes is what is torture...the English language being daily butchered to include more "newsspeak" at the sacrifice of common sense and intuition. It's painful to watch as the space on these servers is clogged with more and more armchair editorials of political events by lackeys and dupes who watch too much goddamn television.

Been lurking here for some time and and felt the need to address what should be obvious to most people satisfied with such diversion: That discussing these subjects ad-infinitum is counter-productive and a waste of brain time. Why belabor and moan while ignoring the masterful deception of news organizations in keeping the people of a nation preoccupied with simple symptoms of a greater problem-That of what is now an obvious puppet government in the U.S., and a nation whose peoples become more moronic and unable to process simple information with each new generation, who are convinced that more laws, and more prohibitions are the obvious way to repair the damage. Shut up about water boards, Gitmo, republicans and democrats, police brutality, etc already. Everyone let the shit get this way, no one is without fault. For fucks' sake, ween yourselves of the use of traditional currency for a change or learn some applicable skill to make your life on police planet a bit more comfortable and enjoyable for you and yours.
Happy to have offended the misguided sensibilities of the majority.

The Council on Foreign Relations (www.cfr.org), Trilateral Commission (www.trilateral.org), etc, all exist, you can read their reports, magazines and member lists at the website or on Wikipedia.

It's a pity someone other than Alex Jones wasn't behind this, because it contains the names of a lot of the people that play very interesting roles in the geopolitical/finance areas that should be investigated more.

People aren't listening to him because he's talking about real politics, real international policy changes and radical internal political change.

Obviously most Americans would rather spend time being entertained by the stage managed wrestling match of Obama vs McCain, so they can get the satisfaction of seeing who is going to pwn who live on TV, whilst the Brzezinski family, who are the brains behind Obama get in by the back door.

You can read all about Zbigniew Brzezinski's anti-Soviet, anti-Muslim geopolitical agenda in his own book, "Second Chance: Three Presidents and the Crisis of American Superpower"

Yes, read in his own words how Brzezinski destroyed the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, how he plans to take apart the Russian Federation and use Afghanistan to build an impregnable US military base against China, Russia, and whoever else stands in his way.

Better read it in fact, because it is going to be the manual for the Obama presidency. Or dismiss it as a conspiracy theory. Your country, your choice.

Ron Paul was the correct answer.

^Russia and the NATO countries play geopolitical games, as we're seeing here, but even the hawks in these governments would go to enormous lengths to avoid an actual military conflict.

On Russia's side, the Russian capitalist elites want prosperity and to continue enjoying their time abroad, and Russia can't fight the whole world. The NATO nations together have about 15 x Russia's GDP (30 trillion vs. 2 trillion USD), or almost half of humankind's total GDP).

On NATO's side, they would certainly ensure Georgia doesn't do anything stupid and stays on the straight path of democratic development.

Oh really Evangelicals didn't support a current war against the Axis Of Evil? You never heard Jerry Fallow or Pat Robertson speaking out against striking against the Ayerabs? George Bush had God tell him to go to war, he was on a mission from Gawwwd.

Religious involvement in geopolitical events is all a matter of perspective.

With regards to religious extremism in Europe ha! That's less to do with religion then with anti-reactionary attitude against immigrants who are coming into the nation. Every anti western cleric has been deported from the UK. You know what else you got after 7/11 British Government encroachments on personal freedoms, go near any US airfield, you will be arrested, protest near parliament, you will be arrested. Don't worry about them they got a police state there, CCTV all over the cities that magically took only 3 photos of the 7/11 bombers. Muslims actually have cloaking technology.

You don't see the governments complaining, I wonder why it is? Oh surely they have been brainwashed by Wizards of Islam. The reason they don't interfere is because Europe is a declining population growth, they need labor to do the jobs Europeans don't want to do, just like in the States. Welcome to capitalism and labor mobility.

I love how you want to say that world events are somehow driven by people's wishes, beliefs and feelings. No, its all about money. Labor mobility is a big plus for old Europe. That's why you don't see these states implement massive immigration restrictions, which they would do overnight. Instead we are seeing the implementation of the European Blue Card.

You fail to see the complexity of world events and choose just a narrow view of clearly these people are out to kill everyone. Also don't you happen people are pissed? Western world has invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, both nations are still worse off. Both invasions has pushed massive refugees into other states. Palestinians are still getting killed as are civilians in both conflict zones. You know that US Forces up until the Battle of Haditha looked at civilian casualties as normal events in a time of war?

ElJardinero, wow, really Islams chop people hands off in all Islamic states? I should really tell people in Turkey, Indonesia, Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain, Yemen, Egypt. That's Saudi Arabia my friend, you know the nation that is supported by the Democratic states of UK and USA, the bestests of friends of the Western Worldz! You know they wanted to lash a woman for getting raped? Who kept mum on that? The US government whose own human rights charter KSA has been breaking year on year.

Religion as I say again is a apparatus of control in both Iran and Saudi Arabia, designed to keep an elite in power through religious terrorism. Islam has nothing to do with it, its simply a tool of power in the same way Catholicism, Protestant and many other faiths are used to justify killing human beings. The Ireland conflict and the war in Bosnia was based around religion, you people seem to forget that. Its just history repeating.

But go ahead. I live in Kuwait and we make alot of money feeding and supplying the US armed forces. I feel fucking sorry for the young men getting killed there fighting a war that has no aim.

Nope, not trying to be a dick. Just the limitations of purely textual communication and my meager mind. I figured it was a copy/paste issue, but didn't want to assume anything.

Believe me - if I was going to be dickish to you, there'd be no question.
And you're pretty much one of the last people here I'd cop an attitude with.

[edit] I know I have once or twice before in regards to geopolitics, but when it comes to music, you have my utmost respect.

I appreciate your restraint in response. It brings up a question that I've asked a few people before, and for which I've never really found an adequate answer. How can we get past our own biases when composing and reading strictly verbal communication like this? Everyone has different idiosyncratic styles, but there is no way to understand them as well in this medium as in face to face communication. Can purely verbal language be expanded to account for it? Sometimes I'll go out of my way to try to do that, but it usually ends up on the other side, coming off as condescending or patronizing. Got any linguistic tips?

In reply to this comment by Farhad2000:
I actually copy pasted it from another site, seems they got it all wrong. I corrected it now.

You came off sounding like a dick though. I hope that wasn't intentional.

In reply to this comment by jonny:
hey man - unless you were intentionally taking some literary license, I think the lyrics you wrote down for slick rick are all screwed up.