you disgust me. you clearly dont see the point at all. if you are so intentionally blinded by your own lack of identity that you have to attribute your gender confusion to a CHILD, seek therapy elsewhere.

>> ^hpqp:

I fail to grasp your point. It's not about how the person feels about themselves; indeed, while a non-operated transsexual is still "male/female" biologically, they are the opposite sex in their minds, their self-identity and behaviour. The problem is the image of themselves that is reflected back on them by society (the perceived identity).
Imagine a gay man who, despite telling everyone he is gay, and acting as stereotypically "gay" as possible, is constantly treated as straight: gay men ignore his advances because they believe he is heterosexual, and women shun him because he's not a real "wo-/man". The analogy isn't perfect, but the fact remains that "no man is an island, entire of itself" (Donne). Our lives and identities are affected by the perceptions and reactions/judgments of others.
edit: no amount of openmindedness can change that fact that sexual attraction is affected by a person's physical attributes. A heterosexual male, for example, will generally react more positively (in terms of sexual responsiveness) to a convincing trap than to a masculine-looking transsexual. That's where ftm transsexuals have an advantage: it is easier to acquire masculine traits with testosterone (and thus attract heterosexual women/gay men) than vice-versa. Remember, we all begin as "girls" in the womb.
>> ^chilaxe:
@Trancecoach @hpqp "the pain of being in the wrong body"
From the perspective of human potential, it doesn't really seem proportionate for someone to care that much which gender they are.
Is one gender really better than the other, or are they both within the range of reasonable human experiences? Are people's personalities really that inflexible and unadaptive?
It's really not that difficult to study gender roles and charisma and learn how to play a male or female well.

I fail to grasp your point. It's not about how the person feels about themselves; indeed, while a non-operated transsexual is still "male/female" biologically, they are the opposite sex in their minds, their self-identity and behaviour. The problem is the image of themselves that is reflected back on them by society (the perceived identity).

Imagine a gay man who, despite telling everyone he is gay, and acting as stereotypically "gay" as possible, is constantly treated as straight: gay men ignore his advances because they believe he is heterosexual, and women shun him because he's not a real "wo-/man". The analogy isn't perfect, but the fact remains that "no man is an island, entire of itself" (Donne). Our lives and identities are affected by the perceptions and reactions/judgments of others.

edit: no amount of openmindedness can change that fact that sexual attraction is affected by a person's physical attributes. A heterosexual male, for example, will generally react more positively (in terms of sexual responsiveness) to a convincing trap than to a masculine-looking transsexual. That's where ftm transsexuals have an advantage: it is easier to acquire masculine traits with testosterone (and thus attract heterosexual women/gay men) than vice-versa. Remember, we all begin as "girls" in the womb.

>> ^chilaxe:

@Trancecoach @hpqp "the pain of being in the wrong body"
From the perspective of human potential, it doesn't really seem proportionate for someone to care that much which gender they are.
Is one gender really better than the other, or are they both within the range of reasonable human experiences? Are people's personalities really that inflexible and unadaptive?
It's really not that difficult to study gender roles and charisma and learn how to play a male or female well.

@Trancecoach @hpqp "the pain of being in the wrong body"

From the perspective of human potential, it doesn't really seem proportionate for someone to care that much which gender they are.

Is one gender really better than the other, or are they both within the range of reasonable human experiences? Are people's personalities really that inflexible and unadaptive?

It's really not that difficult to study gender roles and charisma and learn how to play a male or female well.

I've watched half a dozen sifts this week on gender roles, and this is by far the most dopest.

Don't play games ladies

In a weird way she is right about a couple things. People talk about coming out of the closet and going from straight to gay. But certainly there are people who are gay who later decide they aren't or they only think they're gay. She's also right that there are certainly plenty of straight people who are only effeminate.

Personally, I think a lot of people don't really have a problem with homosexuality specifically, it's the whole gender role switching is what creeps people out. Men acting like women and vice versa. I don't think people care too much about the actual act very much because it goes on behind closed doors. Someone talking about straight sex constantly would annoy someone just as much as someone talking about gay sex constantly.

The problem, of course, is then people pigeonhole everyone into groups. Coulter being right about this, however, doesn't stop her from being a complete douche

Have you tried explaining to her what fascism is?

Fourteen Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
By Dr. Lawrence Britt
Source Free Inquiry.co
5-28-3


Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

is confidence and boisterousness an exclusively male mannerism? what about confidence do you find unfeminine exactly?? best to keep your personal preference for meek, dull women out of this.

also, i'm trying to decide if this display of flesh for advertising is anymore damning than the old spice dude. i'm not personally offended by either of them really and i'm a raging feminist, maybe it's because i have no idea what a page 3 girl is.

i'm with dghandi on this one, meh.

also, i'm pretty offended by misogyny in the media generally, and advertising and entertainment that degrades my entire gender and what not, but i'm more offended that people are sold as labor commodities to walmart for minimum wage than i am that this lady is parading around hinting at nudity. i bet she's being treated with more respect by her employer than hundreds of millions of workers around the world.


>> ^rosekat:

>> ^rychan:
^ agree. Also, she's not confident and over-the-top enough.

Yeah 'cause that'd be real attractive, a female with the exact mannerisms and attitude as the spice GUY. They're targeting a demographic here best to keep to stereotypes/gender role expectations blah ceterah

>> ^rychan:

^ agree. Also, she's not confident and over-the-top enough.


Yeah 'cause that'd be real attractive, a female with the exact mannerisms and attitude as the spice GUY. They're targeting a demographic here best to keep to stereotypes/gender role expectations blah ceterah

Quite honestly, my theory is that people don't have a problem with homosexuality per se, it's that perception that homosexuality = weakness. It's that gender role reversal that has people scared IMO where boys act like girls and girls act like men. In all honesty. That's one thing I still don't really get about homosexuality. What exactly about being homosexual makes a man TALK like a girl? In all honesty, it's that stereotypical flamboyant, effeminate "fabulous" archetype that freaks people out. Chances are, you know someone who is homosexual but they simply act straight so you don't even know it. It's that perception that all homosexuals secretly dress up in BDSM attire and are fabulous interior decorators.

It's the same damned thing with black people. which stereotype causes the most fear for the average american? The assimilated black person who talks like a white person, or the guy dressed as a gangster with heavy ebonics-laden speech? IMO being black per se, or being homosexual per se has almost nothing to do with it. If a straight man started acting flamboyant and effeminate, people would be freaked out about that too. Kids with no strong male role models are perceived to be momma's boys and are picked on...it's the same thing.

Fight those stereotypes and I bet you anything people would accept homosexuality a lot more.

>> ^robdot:

i just dont understand why so many people care what gay people are doing? who gives a fuck? dont we all have other things to worry about? why do these people spend so much time concerned about who someone else loves?

^I suppose there are a couple reasons. First, for nostalgia's sake. Second, I think there's something to be said about her scantily clad voluptuous figure in the knee-high hooker boots. Sexist?

Third, she's an Amazonian, and the new drawing of her is petite and less curvy. You can keep that figure for someone on the Teen Titans, because WW is a full figured woman.

Fourth, she looks too sophisticated. And she's wearing a jacket. And she's wearing leotards with stirrups. And a choker. A fucking choker.

Fifth, before WW most comic heroines were either sidekicks or girlfriends or damsels in distress. She entered the scene as a symbol of feminist power which shattered conventional thinking. The new character seems to be more interested in her Dolce & Gabbana fingerless gloves than shattering gender roles.

My casual observation is that if a woman wrote and directed this, certainly she still sees some societal issues with gender roles. I've also observed that there is no small number of women who feel this way.

As a man, I have noticed that men are at the top of every power structure in my society. Women have made increasing inroads during my lifetime, but they're far from equal. Quick tip for knowing when gender equality is a non-issue: it's when every country's parliament is made up of roughly equal numbers of men and women, when the management teams of all companies are made up of roughly equal numbers of men and women, and the "richest people in the world" list has as many men as women, and in any given year you can't be sure if it'll be a man or a woman at the top of the list, or taking up residence in the White House.

I'll also know when it's as common for a man to be a stay-at-home dad as it is for a woman to be a stay-at-home mom. I'll also know when the stay-at-home dads don't face ridicule from their peers for being somehow unmanly for doing women's work.

But mostly, I notice that more and more these days conversations about inequality seem to always center around how much a white male is offended about allegations that inequality might still be an issue.

It is the rigid gender role stereotyping and essentialized notions of masculinity and femininity that lead to such characterizations in the media of men as aggressive (perps) and women as weak (victims). these categories are artifacts of a patriarchal system; and equal opportunity oppressor. IMO The author is misinterpreting men not named as meaning men don't exist, when in fact this is an example of the male normative in operation. One project of feminism is to break down these rigid gender polarities to allow an authentic and fuller range of fluid gender expression free from such conditioning for all peoples, all genders!

I'm far from a connoisseur of comedians, but female comedians always seem to be holding back just a bit to me -- a little less willing to shock, and a little less willing to really make fools of themselves.

I mean, in this clip I thought the funniest thing the women said was something about knitting cakes, which on the surface sounds self-deprecating, but in reality it's a satirical slam on men's bigoted views of women, and the much funnier rejoinder was one of the men talking about how women are always laughing at his penis (real self-deprecation!).

I suspect gender roles play some part, but it seems to me that the best comedy has to do with painful truths about life that we all experience but seldom talk about, and women should have just as much insight into that kind of thing as men.

equality:
you don't deserve to make more money than me for the same job and the same quality of work just because you have a penis. i can do more with my life than pop out babies and clean up your shit. my thoughts, ideas, opinions, feelings are just as valid as yours, as yours are as valid as mine. and blah blah blah blah you know all that

chivalry:
what remains of it, for the most part, is part of the courting ritual. if we're on our first date and you make no attempt to open doors for me or pick up the check or have good manners, that's our last date. i'm not sure why that's how it is. i am perfectly capable of doing those things for myself, but courting rituals are important and that's part of it. on the same coin, i'm expected to reciprocate by pretending you're fascinating and funny, not being opinionated, smiling politely, wearing make up, smelling nice, looking presentable, making polite conversation and being more conventionally feminine than i normally am. it's just part of the deal. i also used to feel bad having someone else pay for my shit, but apparently if i try to pay for my own stuff on a first date that's a signal that i just want to be "friends". these are cultural rules and they exist and most people abide by them. it's cool.
after a relationship is established the rules get more lax, i can pick up checks, i can open some of the doors, i can get more opinionated, you can act like more of a pig. as far as household chores go, if both people work to pay the bills then the chores should be split and how a couple chooses to split them is up to that couple. but i'd guess you're better at moving heavy objects and opening jars than i am. and i'm probably happier to scrub the toilet and fold the laundry. and you're still responsible to make each other feel special sometimes, and sometimes that means the traditional gender role courting game comes back into play.

common decency:
everyone should make way for everyone else and hold doors open if you get there first. regardless of gender. it's just being decent. it's like saying "i acknowledge your existence and i respect you", anything less is sheer rudeness. if i make it to the door first, i open the door. if an elderly person is slowly edging ahead of me to the door, i pick up my step and open it. if anyone is carrying something heavy or cumbersome to the door ahead of me, i step up and get the door. it doesn't matter what their gender is. out in public men do end up going out of their way more often to open doors for me, it's not necessary, but i do smile and say thanks and acknowledge it. and i do think it's polite. but i certainly don't just stand there and wait for some strange man to move his ass and get out of my way or open this silly door. i'm teaching both of my kids to open doors for other people and help other people with things in public, but i do emphasize "opening doors for ladies" more with my son. because gentlemen are appreciated (or should be). but my daughter is getting heavily schooled in respect and courtesy as well.

i'm sorry you have bitchy, attractive, spoiled neighbors. but chivalry and feminism aren't the issue.

That's not entirely true, though. Children are not simply robots getting programmed to behave and think a certain way by observing others, nor are they spunges who soak up everything they're subjected to. Most kids have an extremely strong will, even at very young ages. And while you can certainly teach them to behave in general terms, they do form opinions of their own. Much like older people, they don't easily change those opinions either. That's probably why we can have such radically different personalities within communities, groups and families, and not all be arbitrarily homogenus because of our surroundings.
And even if it were true, it doesn't mean that a weekly/daily cartoon has the same effect that your community's faith, morals, ethics and prejudices does. You don't live the cartoon, and I dare say that any veiled perception of social commentary made in said cartoon has an insignificant effect on the development of the child's ego.

Again, there's more than likely value in having a philosophical discussion amongst adults on this subject, but making the claim that a cartoon (or set of cartoons) would have any tangible impact on children is stretching it in my opinion. The creator of this article could have made a much better case if he'd built it around propagating stereotypes or gender roles in the cartoon, which isn't as abstract as indoctrinating collectivism, but even then it'd be very far fetched to make the claim that watching the cartoon would have lasting effects.