Thanks. You ever see this doc? http://www.videosift.com/video/A-Place-Called-Chiapas

>> ^Throbbin:
http://www.videosift.com/video/CBC-s-The-Fifth-Estate-9-11-The-
Unofficial-Story
Congrats on the star dude.

Actually if I'm not mistaken this is The Fifth Estate's most recent report on 9/11 and conspiracy theories. They've done a few others in the past, already sifted I believe. But yeah, I agree - very compelling, while still being fairly objective.

>> ^Throbbin:
I see we were watching CBC at the same time last night EndAll. I thought about sifting this, then figured it must already be sifted (it's a few years old).
Compelling stuff.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'cbc, fifth estate, iraq war' to 'cbc, fifth estate, 9 11, 911, iraq war, neocons, gwb, bush' - edited by calvados

Tags for this video have been changed from 'terrorism, documentary, must see' to 'terrorism, documentary, must see, cbc, the fifth estate' - edited by calvados

if he f.e had any knowlegde of the attacks before hand, he would not have use it to prevent the attacks, lets put it that way. watch this one

http://www.videosift.com/video/The-Fifth-Estate-Dick-Cheney

if that doesnt convince you then night need some medication. my favorite part is about how he escaped being drafted for vietnam. school,school,school,married, and then ends up makin his wife pregnant almost the same day congress agrees that married men without children can be drafted....dont even think this man has any love for other humans, not one act in his entire life has indicated that he does.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'canadian, oil, tobacco, pr, fifth estate, cbc' to 'canadian, oil, tobacco, pr, fifth estate, cbc, spin, bias, frank luntz' - edited by fissionchips

Hey Doc_M

I appreciate you elborating on your first statement as it gave me more insight to why you were critical of this report. And while I can understand you being skeptical of the "groups" that the report came from, I personally don't think it affected the validity of what was being said. While our views differ on most subjects, I welcome hearing your perspective. I don't think you are a right wing nut as those types see everything in black and white and in all the discussions we've had you recognize shades of grey on issues.

I used the blind fatih anaology obviously because some of the religious conversations we've had, but in addition we've had several disscusions where I've pointed out evidence of collusion (fluoride, vaccines) and it makes you none the less skeptical of the organizations you quote. You seem to take them at their word even in the face of decietful comments, unethical behavior, shady practices, outright lies and collusions. So while you might not be any less offended by my use of the term "blind faith", that was the context for which I based it upon.

It warmed my heart to hear you be critical of the Bush administration and some of his policies. It made me think of this clip
http://www.videosift.com/video/Theres-Nothing-Conservative-About-Our-War-in-Iraq-by-SA
I would also agree with you that GW BUSH is NOT a conservative (at least with how the party defined itself before he came to office). But I will say I was perplexed at your comment...

It also assumes that Saddam didn't ship the supposed weapons out of the country while the world was twiddling its thumbs and looking the other way for 10 months.

This implies that you believed what the administration said about Iraq hook line and sinker. If you have evidence of your assertions please present it, cause it sounds like conjecture to me. There has never been any proof that's what he did. It is similar to saying He was a sponsor of terrorism (al-Qaeda), or implying that Iraq had something to do with 9/11, or that Iraq had sought uranium for nuclear weapons in Niger.

http://www.videosift.com/video/Web-of-Deceit-Saddam-Hussein

I think we can both agree that there are groups out there that try to "smear" people in politics (ahem, swift boaters). I did not see this report as a smear but as pointing out of the obvious. I think that can be traced to my reluctance to believe the administrations lies to begin with. I'm glad you found that article "The New Pentagon Papers" interesting as it helps put the administrations assertions in the conext of a lie and not a mistaken "false statement" Here is more information about THE OFFICE OF SPECIAL PLANS that was mentioned in the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Plans

Lets also not forget the "Bush-Aznar memo" or the "Downing street memo's".

Here are some other things to consider when examining the administration lies on the war.

Senate Intelligence chairman quietly 'fixed' intelligence, and diverted blame from White House over Iraq
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/HowSenate_Intelligence_chairman_fixed_intelligence_and_diverted_blame_fromWhite_House__0811.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Report_of_Pre-war_Intelligence_on_Iraq

Report: Bush Had More Prewar Intelligence Than Congress
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/15/AR2005121501813.html

http://www.videosift.com/video/The-Fifth-Estate-The-Lies-That-Led-To-War

http://www.videosift.com/video/Frontline-Behind-Closed-Doors

I remember watching the docs about the role of the patriot during the gulf war and the military guys were saying that not one managed to destroy a scud. In fairness, they said it was never designed to intercept missiles, it was a carefully planned PR move to reassure the Israelis and encourage them to stay out of the war.

CBC had one of the docs about it on "The Fifth Estate" (from their website):
"THE CAN'T MISS MISSILE
It was touted as the best defence money could buy against Iraqi Scuds and other deadly missiles. But as the fifth estate's Bob McKeown demonstrated on our February 5 programme, the Patriot missile turned out to be a bust in 1991. And now in the early days of the war in Iraq, it seems as if the Patriot has revealed one more fatal shortcoming. It is having trouble telling the difference between friend and foe. A whole new take on a cautionary tale about military hardware and military obfuscation."

I loved that program. I felt it was very hard hitting and extremely well done.

Video: The fifth estate: The Lies That Led To War Saturday, March 24, 2007
Written by Bill Larson in : Politics, Federal Government, Peace, Corporate Media

The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

The CBC (Canada) produces some really good documentaries. If you don't have access to CBC programming, much of their stuff is posted in alt.binaries.multimedia.documentaries if you have access to usenet. Their show, The Fifth Estate, recently featured a story "The Lies That Led to War". Just thought you might like to check it out if you haven't seen it. Here is the first part: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5GmaQ4MgEc