The thumbnail image for this video has been updated - thumbnail added by Boise_Lib.

>> ^hpqp:

What a trustworthy source, Webster Tarpley, 9/11 "it's-an-insidejob"er and climate change denialist.

Did man also never set foot on the moon, oh bearer of unwanted truths?
>> ^marbles:
The CIA’s Libya Rebels: The Same Terrorists who Killed US, NATO Troops in Iraq
Al Qaeda: Pawns of CIA Insurrection from Libya to Yemen
edit - link added:
Is the “Imminent Liberation of Libya” Propaganda?



Typical hpqp response. Scared to address the facts but has no problem tossing out lazy ad hominem static.
For the record 9/11 was an inside job, and Tarpley is not a "climate change denialist".

Furthermore, Tarpley's first article is completely sourced so I guess those idiots at West Point must be wrong about North-eastern Libya having the greatest concentration of Al-Qaeda fighters anywhere in the world.

The Telegraph and Washington Times must be conspiring with Tarpley also.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8407047/Libyan-rebel-commander-admits-his-fighters-have-al-Qaeda-links.html (link dead?)
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/feb/24/al-qaeda-offers-aid-to-rebels-in-libya/

The thumbnail image for this video has been updated - thumbnail added by lucky760.

The thumbnail image for this video has been updated - thumbnail added by lucky760.

>> ^Skeeve:

This is definitely some quality television.
I love examples of how "short" history actually is.
We have here a video recording of a man who was alive before the existence, politically speaking, of nations like Italy and Canada. He was born before the invention of dynamite and he coexisted with people who knew Napoleon personally. That stuff blows my mind.


indeed, about 5ish years ago, i was having dinner at a buffet and this older lady and gentlemen walked in followed by two other older ladies, i learned from the older man that he was 96, the smaller lady was his wife who was 104 (she looks about 70ish) and the two other women was there daughters who were each in there 60's, i sat there just dumbfounded at all the history these four new as "life" and all i had were crappy books and lame ass teachers in school.

Actually, @Issykitty, @dystopianfuturetoday and I attended an unofficial SiftUp back in... er... shit, sometime in Feb I think? It was for a movie screening. Does that count? It was on Sunset Blvd. We had brie and scones. Okay we didn't have brie and scones.

>> ^bcglorf:

>> ^marbles:
Are you fuckin slow or something?
I've made no claims one way or the other. YOU HAVE. AND YOU HAVE NO LEGITIMATE EVIDENCE.
IT'S A MOOT POINT ANYWAY. SO WHY DO YOU INSIST ON REPEATING THE SAME BULLSHIT OVER AND OVER?
YOU ARE GOING TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE AND IGNORE EVERY ARGUMENT I'VE MADE.
SO IF YOU HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO SAY, THEN FUCK OFF!

Well said. You have made claims though:
1:Foreign Intelligence members are the main instigators of the rebellions.
2:The truth is we don't know who is killing the civilians.
3:Yeah, much akin to the Kurds. Where did that get them? We encouraged them to support us in Desert Storm and then let hundreds of thousands get slaughtered after we pulled out.
4:The groups that we're "working together" with in Libya is al-Qaeda linked rebels.
5:North-eastern Libya has one of the greatest concentrations of jihadi terrorists anywhere in the world.
6:Al Jazerra nearly always has a pro-Western spin
7:the Syrian army was ambushed in one city and something like 120 army servicemen killed.
You've made plenty of claims, all of them in favor of the stories given by Gadhafi and Bashir Al-Assad. Save for number 3 where you confuse the Iraqi Kurds with the Iraqi Shia. You've already made clear that even Al Jazeera is a pro-western entity, and that eye witness testimony is bought by foreign money, so it there can not exist any evidence you would deem credible, save the apparent exception of stories provided by the State run media of Libya and Syria...
If you dislike what you see in this, then I'd recommend changing yourself since the reflection is deadly accurate.


There you go being a moron troll again. I've made no claims on whether or not Assad is responsible for killing civilians. YOU HAVE. YOU CHERRY PICK WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE AND IGNORE THE REST. Even your sources say they don't know.
Unlike you, everything I said is backed up with actual substance.

1. Arab Spring. Confirmed by multiple sources - sponsored by foreign groups (multiple links in this thread)
2. Al Jazerra even admits that.
3. From Google result:In the aftermath of Operation Desert Storm, the United States encouraged Kurds and Shiites to rebel against Hussein's regime--then withdrew and refused to support them, leaving an unknown number to be slaughtered. At one point, Hussein's regime killed as many as 2,000 suspected Kurdish rebels every day. Some two million Kurds hazarded the dangerous trek through the mountains to Iran and Turkey, hundreds of thousands dying in the process.
4. here and here
5. 2007 West Point Study
6. Already established Qatar support for NATO.
I never claimed number 7. Irrelevant anyway.

Uploaded by RecklessTortuga on Feb 22, 2011 -- Where's part 2?

Heh, well the "dupe" video that was destroyed was not a dupe. And this video IS a dupe just whoever originally posted it here back in Feb/Mar must have removed it and there's no trace of it now.

Yeah, I don't understand this system at all.

The thumbnail image for this video has been updated - thumbnail added by critical_d.

The thumbnail image for this video has been updated - thumbnail added by critical_d.

Yeah this US trailer is entirely misleading, and the rock music is so stupid. The film is decent though, saw it when it got released in China 2010 Feb and the effects and martial arts are great, however the scenes in the film fit together pretty badly.. Jay Chou annoys me as well, just as he annoys me in the Green Hornet. I wish the film had more Drunken Boxing too, it's supposed to be a kinda prequel to Drunken Master with Jackie Chan, which is by the same director, that film is hilarious and awesome.

awesome!
>> ^jan:

http://youtu.be/cLaXS8pquv4
check this out

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Firstly, calling Harper a warmonger when it was the Liberal government who first sent Canadian troops to Afghanistan is ignorant. Further, the only firm pull-out date set by the Canadian government is December 2011. Harper, with the support of the Liberal party in a parliamentary vote, did extend the mission beyond 2009, but Feb 2009 was never a firm pull-out date but merely a date set to review the situation.

Second, while the Conservative government has made deals to purchase the F-35 (which is the only real replacement for our ancient CF-18s) your pricing is so insanely out of line and the "without engines" myth is pure moronic propaganda. As was shown in today's Ottawa Citizen:
"Lockheed Martin makes planes, not engines. The engine for the F-35 will be supplied by Pratt & Whitney. The government will purchase the engines from Pratt & Whitney, just as will every F-35 customer, because that company will provide the guarantee and ongoing support for the engine. Thus for purposes of the contract with Lockheed Martin, the engines are "government furnished equipment." However, the cost for the engines is built into the $9-billion overall acquisition budget."


As for $300 million each, where could you possibly get such skewed numbers?

"The Canadian acquisition price of $75 million is for the aircraft only (and yes, it does include an engine). American cost figures tend to include other program elements like spare parts, weapons and infrastructure. This is obvious; 65 aircraft at $75 million each costs $4.9 billion total -much less than the acquisition budget. If you use the overall $9-billion acquisition budget, each Canadian F-35 would appear to cost $138 million because it incorporates all those other costs."


In your haste to spread lies you not only doubled the cost of the aircraft, but you took away the engines that were included in the original budgeting.

Having a strong opposition is an important part of democracy, being ignorant is not.>> ^notarobot:

Warmonger Stephen Harper, kept the Canadian military engaged in Afghanistan past pull-out dates, made deals to purchase F 35 fighter jets at $300M each above cost and without any engines...
So it isn't surprising that Yoko Ono had the video of Stephen Harper butchering her husband's music pulled.

Believe me I'm not arguing that Saddam nor Gaddafi were nice guys. I making the distinction between a country being run by a corrupt leader, and destroying a country because of their corrupt leader. In my opinion Gaddafi didn't suddenly become more of a threat after his speech. In fact, he did what almost EVERY country on the face of the planet would do when faced with an armed uprising (this includes the US and the UK). There are other issues at play here also, such as why Burmese, Rwandan, Ivory Coast, Kenyan, North Korean, Saudi, Bahraini leaders deserve more respect than Iraqi and Libyan (oil rich) leaders.

By UN estimates the US killed 100,000 Iraqis (civilians and soldiers)in the first Gulf War. Other estimates show countless thousands died due to the sanctions in the 90s, and god knows how many in the last Iraq War disaster. The entire infrastructure of the Iraqi state has been in shambles for 20 years. In fact, they went from the most modern, secular, arab state to a destroyed wreck of a country. I strongly feel that a 70 year old Saddam Hussein was less of a threat to the Iraqi people than the US war was. In my opinion time would have been a much kinder ally to the Iraqis than the US was. Though I understand your point about the Kurds, realistically anything said about Iraq could easily be said about Turkey, one of our biggest allies.

"As for other Gulf States, would you really prefer Libya was left to Gaddafi's mercy just because that's exactly what's happening elsewhere?" I guess my answer to you is yes. Foreign policy consistency across the board would go a long way towards stopping dictators from betting that they will get away with human-rights crimes. Inconsistency is not going to help anyone.

Thanks for you civil and informed answer. Just so you know, I probably won't have the time to respond again any time soon.
>> ^bcglorf:

>> ^vaporlock:
Truthfully, I never did pay much attention to Libya. Partially because I figured a nutjob like Gadhafi had to be on the US payroll (which, apparently until recently he was (banking, oil, etc).
Anyway, thanks for the quote. I've been hearing about it for weeks now and never knew where it came from. No offense meant, but like most of the media hyped quotes from Saddam Hussein, it is probably either a bad translation, out of context, a cultural/religious way of saying things that westerners don't get, or a combination of these. Without too much analysis, I can say that the part about going "house by house" to get rid of a rebellion/uprising is pretty SOP (see Iraq).
I have many more suspicions after reading the AlJazeera blog than I had before I read it (ie. why are so many protester signs in English?), but I don't have time to get into it now. Starting a bombing campaign based on a "speech" is ridiculous to begin with and Gadhafi's actions are not too far from what all of the Arab Gulf States have been doing in recent weeks.
>> ^bcglorf:
>> ^vaporlock:
I'm interested in finding out where he said this. Have you ever found an actual statement by Gadhafi saying this? It isn't something I can imagine him (an arab socialist) saying.
Wearing silk pajamas with a funny hat, yes. "I'm going to commit genocide", no.
This statement has the reak of pre Desert Storm propaganda. Most of which was proven false (ie. Iraqi troops emptying Kuwaiti baby incubators in the hospitals). >> ^bcglorf:
"Gadhafi would currently be finishing off the genocide he promised to commit against the opposition"


Are you at all familiar with Gaddafi? His speech from Feb 22 he threatened to "cleanse the nation, house by house", and warned that just as the world never came to help the victims of Tiananmen square no one was coming to help you(the opposition). Don't take my word for it. Don't take the word of any anti-Arab biased western media. Go read Al Jazeera's live blog from the day that speech was delivered.


like most of the media hyped quotes from Saddam Hussein, it is probably either a bad translation, out of context
Slow down before you dismiss Gaddafi's statements on genocide because they resemble Saddam's speechs. Nobody, and I mean nobody(Arab,Palestinian,Iraqi) denies Saddam's record on mass killings.
In his Anfal campaign against the Kurds there estimates higher than 200k murdered by Saddam. Half of the dead are from military operations against civilians including the use of chemical weapons, while the other half are mass executions complete with bulldozers to dig large enough graves on site.
The estimates of his crushing of the Shia uprisings at the end of the first gulf war exceed 100k dead as well, with gunships and tanks being used to lower the number of 'unruly' civilians to something more 'manageable'.
You are right about the similarities between Gaddafi and Saddam. It's a reason to take his threats regarding genocide of those opposing him as deadly serious.
Starting a bombing campaign based on a "speech" is ridiculous to begin with and Gadhafi's actions are not too far from what all of the Arab Gulf States have been doing in recent weeks.
It wasn't just a "speech". He followed the speech up by mobilizing his army and marching across the country killing anyone even suspected of being with the opposition. He was within a single city of having taken back full control of the country and being able to "secure" his gains. I hate having to point that "secure" in this case means systematically hunting down killing as many supporters of the opposition as it takes to be certain no-one will ever consider doing it again. Whether that can be done with 100 or 100 thousand doesn't matter to a dictator, it's just a means to an end.
As for other Gulf States, would you really prefer Libya was left to Gaddafi's mercy just because that's exactly what's happening elsewhere?