@newtboy
"i know you are but what am i i"?

that had me cackling like a loon.bravo my friend.

please understand guys my comment is in reference to this particular thread,not any previous private or otherwise.

my commentary was also tongue-n-cheek and not to be taken too seriously.
i was poking the hornets nest...like a boss..who also happens to be a dick.

please forgive.

as for conflicting private to public messages.
well..that would infuriate me as well newt.you wont get an argument from me on that point.
that speaks to a persons character and integrity and explains a ton in regards to your attitude towards @chingalera.

our integrity is all we have.
when you take away everything,the only thing left we have to trade is our word.
our honor.
our respect for another human being.
when we lose that trust....we lose everything.

i do not know the particulars on how you all conversed in private.its none of my business and not my place to judge.

but if what you are saying is true newt (and i have no reason to believe it isnt.there is a past precedent in that regard) then i have to ask @chingalera why?

why say one thing in private and then another in public?
that is so disengenuious and un-necessary my man.
you make good solid points..often,and often i agree with them.
so why would invalidate them by interacting with such duplicity?

you cant call out newt for disregarding or dismissing your points because it was YOU who invalidated those points by your interactions with him.

and you know this.
dont act like you dont because i know your smarter than the average bear.so dont insult my intelligence by feigning innocence.

you owe newt an apology.period.

and dont prove @VoodooV right.we both were there when you flamed out and it was ugly.
and you made it ugly by taking it personal.
i never judged you for that..still dont.
but that does not mean i condoned how you played that closing scene out.
real people had real feelings hurt...including you.

now i realize this thread is destroyed and i dont even know who i need to apologize to.
so...
to the original poster:i am truly sorry for this tragic hi-jacking of your thread.

but it appears necessary.

@chingalera i realize that much of what you do is to shock people out of complacency.
to get them to perceive a situation with different goggles.
many times the weapons you use are confrontational language and a persistence that rivals the most glorious case of OCD.

those intentions are noble.
i agree and am of a similar mindset.this is probably why i can read choggie-speak with little trouble.

i understand what you are trying to do.

but how can you expect someone like @newtboy to listen to anything you have to say when you cant keep even basic correspondence open and honest?
it invalidates everything you attempt from then on out.
your words have to have the weight of your integrity behind them for them to have ANY impact.
you lose that and your words become dust.

sounds like you will have to work to gain the respect from @newtboy.i wish you well in that endeavour.

please understand i consider you a friend @chingalera and hearing this has upset me a great deal.

and @VoodooV,
you may be right brother.i do not know what the future brings.hopefully ching will prove you wrong.i know he could if he wanted.

but i disagree with keeping the riff raff out.
i dont mind confrontation or arguments.in fact i LOVE them and @chingalera has a talent for poking the hornets nest and shattering the monotone-vanilla-circle-jerk-clones into a frenzy.

and that my friend..is a good thing.

@chingalera keeps the locals buzzing,constantly challenging pre-concieved notions and ideologies and i love that fucker for that.he keeps this site interesting.his antics bring lurkers to actually comment/post and others who usually side-line to jump in.

all good things.

but...
i cannot abide the darker side.
the hurtful side.
maybe i am being naive'....i always see redemption for those who the entrenched masses see as unredeemable.i always feel i can save those who are truly lost.

i always see the human first and the actions last.

so you may be right.i just hope you are wrong.
maybe this thread will impact my friend and remind him we are all humans.

i dont know.........
i hope though...
i hope.

@ChaosEngine again,as i told newtboy,no argument here.
hopefully this derailed thread has cleared some air and brought the things to the table that needed to be discussed.

which from my viewpoint is about integrity.
you cant admonish people for being egocentric and then turn around and be egocentric yourself.
it weakens the very position you were trying to make in the first place.(ching,not you CE).
it is hypocritical.

i am a dissident.
a radical.
a subversive.
even to the church i am an apostate.
so i understand @chingalera on a certain level.he has never treated me other than a friend and compatriot.so it pains me to see how he deals with those he disagrees with,and just how far he will take a story to a painful conclusion.
this does not give be joy or pleasure.

he is a righteous dude.passionate,sensitive and creative and has soooo much to offer.
im sorry ya'all didnt get to see that side of him.
but maybe thats on him,because you all should.

there is a reason he has been invited back multiple times and its not because he whined about it but rather he truly is an exceptional human being.

maybe he should show that side more.
takes honesty and courage,but that boy has a huge capacity for that.

@chingalera
balls in your court brother.
what ya gonna do?

*note* for all those who read to this point.
cookies and milk will be served in the back storage room.
free fondlings for the ladies.
dont forget to tip your bartenders and waitresses!

There is a huge difference between a dissenting opinion and making noise for the sake of making noise. If choggie has a valid dissenting opinion, it is Lost in the noise. Personally I've taken him off ignore now because as others have noted, he's heading towards full on meltdown.... again. I want to see it

Of course we wouldn't have this problem in the first place if people who were booted off the sift once already weren't allowed back in eventually Dunno why anyone is shocked when this pattern keeps repeating over and over

Ok. let me answer those points...and apologize for the wall of text in advance.
As I said, this was the first time I have ever tried (or even wanted to try) the ignore button, and I found it quite wanting. It's already not working at all, after one day.
It is not at all about a dissenting voice I'm trying to silence or deafen myself to, it's about his personal grating style and the apparent complete lack of self knowledge or examination coupled with vitriol at every chance. It's about trying to avoid people that search for any possible thing to attack, even when they must make mistaken assumptions to find something to be irate about, and appear to do so consistently with glee and zealotry. I welcome dissenting voices, listening to other points of view is the only way one can really evolve socially and intelligently, but when those points of view are always presented with vitriol and insult the message is often quickly lost.
I must ask, how do you come to the translations you have applied to his statements? For instance...
QUOTE:"As to some ' deliberate affectation designed to make me appear intellectual' You might want to check your own understanding of intellectual versus one's perception of self, I tend not to place much credence in the concept, overrated and ultimately soulless when used to assert one's own importance or place the herd over some one else.
Intelligence in the grand schemata, does not necessarily connote wisdom."

your TRANSLATION: i dont know everything and neither do you.
Where I read this as :'I know you are, but what am I?...I don't care about intelligence, intelligence isn't wisdom.' (implying-'and I'm wiser than thou').

If he could have recalled who he was responding to and the numerous personal discussions we have had, where he always ended up backing down and apologizing for his (feigned?) outrage at a mistaken assumption he had made, I probably wouldn't have lost all patience. Having to remind him every time we converse, and having him ignore it in public forums but admit it in private, was infuriatingly frustrating and I gave up. Perhaps that's my failing, but it is one that has raised it's head only once, with him, and I'm not the only one it's happened with (HE mentioned that the 'ignore' button was created in large part because of him, so he knows full well how he is perceived, no matter what his motive).
His clearly stated intention is rabble rousing and jabbing the sleeping sheeple, and I'm tired of the insulting prodding, especially since I'm a newtboy not a sheeple. I have read where he posted that, and I have seen that from him, but for some reason it seems you are telling me that if I say so I'm somehow making his point... that I'm (like ALL others) 'a sleeping idiot that believes only lies and shit, all my ideas are shit, and now that I disagreed with him I'm also a piece of shit'? Sorry, I don't understand that. Perhaps you were referring to a new point he made that I have not read.
My responses in this thread were NOT to Chingy himself (is this who people mean when talking about Choggie?)...but to others commenting about him. I agree, it is becoming a spectacle rather than substance...I feel like that was also the case with most of the threads he took over with walls of ranting anger. I do feel some responsibility for furthering that by engaging him, which is why I tried to ignore him, and things just went downhill from there fast! Now I can't ignore him if I want to read others' comments nearly anywhere on the sift because it seems he's there, everywhere, picking fights and then complaining he's bullied and being posted about instead of the video topic...and here I am doing it too.
F*CK!
The sift was such a nice place for discussion 6 months ago, with all points of view being well respected if not agreed with and few if any trolls beyond QM, and he was fairly respectful. What the hell happened?

@newtboy
fair enough my man.
personally i find the ignore button an un-necessary appendage.it serves no purpose other than to keep my own personal echo chamber free from dissenting voices.

no fun in that at all.

and as you stated.you still see his comments when someone quotes him.so why bother?

while i am reluctant to speak for @chingalera ,allow me to back up my argument in regards to how ya'all are making his case.

i shall channel choggie and attempt to translate his verbal perusings in order to make my case:

QUOTE:"I revel in the destruction of formulaic redundancy, especially when the phenomena occurs from time to time on the sift when a small contingent of back-patters load the place with atheism=great, Christians, etc. (insert faith-based philosophies) =shit, and most political offerings in the form of republicans/conservatives=shit, democrats/liberals=my-shit-doesn't-stink-like-theirs videos. "

TRANSLATION: i detest know-it-all's and will go on the offensive to show them the errors of their ways.

QUOTE:"Also a frequent and predictable phenomena, that a single down-vote, tinctured with an alternative perspective in comments, has the gang come spilling from the douche-works like cockroaches to offer their smarmy, childish two-cents, in order to make themselves feeeeel good. Hate this shit. It shows a lack of a certain social evolution from which I instinctively recoil."

TRANSLATION:it only takes that ONE downvote for other like-minded know-it-alls to come out of the woodwork to add their own smug opinion to belittle a person with a different perspective.i find this a form of bullying and it appalls me.

QUOTE:"As to some ' deliberate affectation designed to make me appear intellectual'
You might want to check your own understanding of intellectual versus one's perception of self, I tend not to place much credence in the concept, overrated and ultimately soulless when used to assert one's own importance or place the herd over some one else.
Intelligence in the grand schemata, does not necessarily connote wisdom."

TRANSLATION: i dont know everything and neither do you.

QUOTE:"Quite simply, when I see atheists deride another belief system with childish and derogatory banter like a gang of hyena stealing meat I treat them like a pack of feral creatures and similarly, I tend to shit on people's assumptions of how the world would be a better place if everyone thought the way "I" do regarding politics.

TRANSLATION: i hate bullies and will call them out every time.

QUOTE:"It's fucking tired and boring and makes the place to myself, look like a very untalented graffiti artist used sub-par aerosols to deface a shrine or temple.

TRANSLATION:i am alone but am fully un-impressed with your boring and unoriginal group-think.

@newtboy
so i guess it all comes down to perception and intent.
how you perceive ching and discern his intent.
though he is incredibly verbose and practices the art of flowery language he has been quite clear on his intentions.

let us examine the responses on this thread shall we?
a number here actually discussed openly chings intentions as if he was not part of this thread.

by discerning his intent and then engaging in a group discussion on that assumption has made chings argument.you guys are behaving exactly as ching accuses you all of being guilty of.

i do not have a problem with @chingalera
but nor do i have a problem with you or @VoodooV or @ChaosEngine.(or anybody else for that matter)

but this has become spectacle rather than substance.
now maybe ching bears some responsibility but that burden is not his alone.
you all bear some responsibility as well....
as do i now..

SONOFA........

and attention whore choggie hijacks yet another sift

hurry up choggie, I don't think you've posted in *every* sift just yet, nor have you replied to every single non-choggie post either.

chop chop!

Excellent post Eric. He's dug his own grave, be happy to lie down innit with him and share a last pint of royal blood with him-Expatriates unite-@3:58 choggie , For all you "cry racism" idgits out there....

I can't wait for the Real Actors Read choggie video.

Just y'all wait till 'ol choggie starts talking some shit about god, religion, and the impacted wisdom tooth up an ass-full of mouth....

Choggie works hard to bring that about. I'm feeling like he's headed for another crash and burn.

Can't say I'll miss him any more than I did the last time. The boy's got no self-control and appears to lack any sense of courtesy.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=escalopter

coined by Lucky, codified by choggie

I guess I have to respond to this:

First, English is not my 1st language, so I am not 100 % sure what a 'shill' is. According to Wikipedia: 'is a person who publicly helps a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization.'

if that's what you mean by NR being a shill, I do not think it is correct. He did what he did because his heart was in the right place, and he believes in what he was saying. You constantly STILL butchering him is somewhat repulsive. If anybody needs a mental health professional, it is not him.

When it comes to me, you have not made amends. You have apologized, several times in public posts, but I do not think any of those are sincere. I have mostly ignored your commenting, I just responded to one post about asking if my family is OK after I went away because my dog was seriously ill. I did appreciate the concern, but I do not consider you a nice, or sane person, and I certainly have not forgotten the things you have done.

I stay away from VS because I was told (not by Choggie) that my comments are condensending towards newbies (which I apologize, I just have trouble getting my throughs through in English), and I am not helpful. Not being helpful is true, since I tend to isolate myself. But it has not been my intention to 'just dominate the sift'. I might have said stupid things like that when I was new here, and I did enjoy the success. It is nice to be good at something, even if it was just sifting tons of videos.

I do not want to start a fight here, and I am not going to comment any further. I might be back one day and I do not want to be disliked any more than this. Just leave my hubby alone when you have no idea what you are talking about.

They're invited??....The difference between them and me (as choggie) is that I WAS here and available to defend myself, and some of the more egregious violators of civil discourse, simply hit the convenient "ignore" button, which is for pussies and the spineless. They stayed, I was outed. AND...they are still here and choose not to rear their heads. Any questions??

NOw...Back to culling the Sift of some dead, tired, shit.

Why would I?? Because after i was banned as choggie I was canned with no recourse but to lurk and read the COMPLETE HORSESHIT the mob talked about me with me having no way to defend myself...I was righteously pissed. You obviously are not a student of history here, i don't forget shit, but I DO FORGIVE.

Plus, the sift needs a douche of all the wholesale crap that got posted during that bogus election, and I'd love to see the AWOL unseated from prominent places.....get some perspective instead of talking more shit perhaps>???

How about cleaning up some tired dead rhetoric on the sift and gang-up on someone who isn't sincere, thoughtful, and full of empathy.\??
TO answer your question directly Sarzy, "Because I CAN and will to do so.

I miss a lotta folk here, especially the ones who slinked-off after they fired-up torches against me and then passive-aggressively bailed when I was allowed to return..Believe me, i extended olive branches to some of the worst of offenders here. ...and they call ME a hater-

NR admitted he was shill....and I have made ammends with his old-lady

Yo u need some context before you startin' with the same program...I love everybody, it simply looks like shit to some.

Can't stand pep-rally mentalities, and won't suffer charlatans with a single program.

That's why-

Moving this video to choggie's personal queue. It failed to receive enough votes to get sifted up to the front page within 2 days.

This video series made me not like Pete Holmes any more. Choggie is right, this guy milks every last bit of funny until it's just tedious to take in any more of the material.