>> ^radx:

Tweet by wikileaks a few hours ago:

US mil releases Iraq massacre investigation doc; note the tone. its junk http://bit.ly/cP9eoN

In case you don't trust the short url: PDF, p. 11ff.


I'm kinda puzzled that they say the "tone" is all it takes to declare it "junk".

Among the things claimed in the report is that there were indeed people carrying AK-47's and an RPG launcher in that crowd of people around the journalists, and that they found the weapons on the scene afterward.

They also claim that journalists are supposed to be wearing specially marked body armor, and are to have their work cleared through the military first so they at least know you're in a particular area, and these two did neither.

They also admit that what was aimed at the helicopter was a camera and not an RPG, but that the furtive nature of how the photographer was acting (tenatively poking his head around the corner, and then leaning out around it with minimal exposure) made it look like it was a weapon being trained on the helicopter, not a camera (a sense I had myself watching this video).

They also say that camera equipment alone doesn't identify individuals as non combatants because insurgents will sometimes bring camera crews to document their attacks.

I'm not sure I believe all of those 100%, but they do also include still shots with circles around what they believe are AK's and an RPG launcher in the hands of people in that crowd.

I notice, however, that they manage to redact the bulk of the picture that supposedly shows the RPG launcher at the scene afterward, to the point where you don't see even a piece of the supposed RPG launcher. However, they do clearly show an AK on the ground.

Seems to me that the right response from Wikileaks should be to try to enhance the video to see if they can validate the assertion that the other people in the crowd were armed. If they're not, it calls the whole rest of the thing into question.

Reuters can probably also provide documentation on whether their journalists had notified the military where they'd be that day or not.

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>> ^NordlichReiter:

>> ^gwiz665:
It's looking more and more like vietnam, isn't it? The american occupying force ought to get the hell out of there.
quality, not that the video really needs it.

All of the wars since Vietnam have been just like Vietnam. But no one seems to give a shit in the US, and if they do they sure as hell don't fucking act like it.



This is not true. It took years for significant protests of the Vietnam War to make any sort of impact on the situation in the United States or in Indochina. Before there were significant protests Indochina was bombed into oblivion with tons upon tons of war crimes mounting up, millions of people killed land deforested and people rounded up into camps. Although this horrible shocking footage is damning it doesn't compare to the monstrous brutality and murder on a mass scale that Vietnam was.

People do care, Iraq is the first War America has had that had organized large scale resistance before the War was even declared. It's tapered off due to complacency the outstanding work of the media to push it to the side so successfully and the overall Failure of the Left in this country to keep organizing people and bring about a dedicated resistance. Not having a draft and keeping the numbers there as low as possible has helped the media do it's job and point out that this isn't our problem.

It's not hard to start a resistance against this War...the groups exist and the people are out there. If you don't want to see anymore stuff like this either keep watching Lost or stand up together because this all happens in our name.

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>> ^thumpa28:

Ewwww the usual dumb arse comments I see. OH MY GOD isnt that terrible that we give kids masses of weaponry and they USE IT!!! Im going to leave an irate comment about how evil the americans are, then go back to munching my cheap food, buy some cheap petrol and wear these cheap clothes without giving a toss about where they come from. Kids dying in this video? Yeah its disgusting! 750,000 kids dying through malnutrition and a lack of medicine from UN sanctions over 12 years before the war? Well, there was no video of that so that was alright. Who wants McDonalds?
Generally its just a lot easier to promote a video and feel all self-righteous without actually knowing whats happening out there huh. Those nasty nasty americans.


Ok well, because UN santions did kill millions (numbers are a up for contention). But UN was just enacting the policy of the US (with support from UK)

@thmpa28: You trivialise the point by injecting your immature bullshit into the discussion. You obviously don't have the temperament to engage the peeps of videosift, or even a casual understanding of what you are talking about.

Actually, I think that response is pretty human, to rationalize it so you don't have to bear the guilt of something so heinous. It's a common defense mechanism. If they were proper psychopaths, they'd just accept the guilt and not care.
>> ^petpeeved:

"Well, it's their fault for bringing their kids to a battle." -psychopathic soldier number 1.
"That's right." -psychopathic soldier number 2.
Inhuman.

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Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

My point is that the "war" portion of the invasion was supposed to be over by 2007.
>> ^Farhad2000:

War is organized violent action not a fair conflict between two forces. I agree it was an unlawful invasion but nothing was done about it and only shows that imperialism is alive and well today.
>> ^dag:
War is hell but this not war. It's an invading, occupying empire treating locals with brutality and disregard for their lives. Roman centurians would recognize it for what it is.>> ^Farhad2000:
Unfortunately this all looks legit from the stand point of ROE during the time period. All US forces were cleared for engagement with hostile forces. All events would be judge as seen on the day and not post factum. Its kinda of clear how easily it was to confuse the cameras for weapons given that there were people with weapons present at the same time.
An unfortunate series of events. But not uprising. The cover up is horrific though.
War is hell. Fuck

War is organized violent action not a fair conflict between two forces. I agree it was an unlawful invasion but nothing was done about it and only shows that imperialism is alive and well today.
>> ^dag:

War is hell but this not war. It's an invading, occupying empire treating locals with brutality and disregard for their lives. Roman centurians would recognize it for what it is.>> ^Farhad2000:
Unfortunately this all looks legit from the stand point of ROE during the time period. All US forces were cleared for engagement with hostile forces. All events would be judge as seen on the day and not post factum. Its kinda of clear how easily it was to confuse the cameras for weapons given that there were people with weapons present at the same time.
An unfortunate series of events. But not uprising. The cover up is horrific though.
War is hell. Fuck

I'm going to do everything I can to make sure as many people as possible see this video, so that next time some asshole uses the euphemism "Collateral Damage" they'll understand what that really means.>> ^imstellar28:

What you gonna do about it? Thats right, nothing.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

War is hell but this not war. It's an invading, occupying empire treating locals with brutality and disregard for their lives. Roman centurians would recognize it for what it is.>> ^Farhad2000:

Unfortunately this all looks legit from the stand point of ROE during the time period. All US forces were cleared for engagement with hostile forces. All events would be judge as seen on the day and not post factum. Its kinda of clear how easily it was to confuse the cameras for weapons given that there were people with weapons present at the same time.
An unfortunate series of events. But not uprising. The cover up is horrific though.
War is hell. Fuck

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

>> ^deathcow:

now move the video to New York City and imagine they are banking executives on smoking breaks


Now there's a scenario I think we can all get behind.

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Yes, sure- use the excuse that they thought the first guy's camera was a gun- that doesn't justify gunning down a whole van of people who were trying to help the wounded. There's just no valid excuse for this. If you listen to audio- these guys are trigger-happy idiots who should be court-marshalled.
>> ^Throbbin:

I can't tell if you are being facetious or not, but MAYBE the first incident could be justified. The 2nd incident, with the van and no weapons in sight could never, ever be justified by anyone. Any organization or government that tries to justify it should be brought down.>> ^joedirt:
Dag, you are clueless.
Even the UN would rule this a justified shooting. Somehow the US is allowed to shoot anyone on sight of what they think is a gun. It's crazy, but that is what occupation means. No one gets convicted of these war crimes. Look at Gaza, look at Faluja. Look at any prison camp run by US military..