@rougy, you keep taking these swings at me like I've been twisting your arm to compromise your principles.

You're also acting as though you and I have radically different goals, and I can't actually recall ever seeing you say something I thought was "too radical."

I think if you're voting against incremental steps to the left on the basis of them "not going far enough" you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Look at Alan Grayson and Sherrod Brown. I think I'm about where they are ideologically -- I haven't seen either one say or do anything I disagree with yet.

Thanks!!

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In reply to this comment by littledragon_79:
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>> ^NetRunner:
>> ^chilaxe:
I think there's an endlessly rich intellectual world lying beneath the surface of politics, but all we ever see of it is the borderline anti-intellectualism of folks like Arianna Huffington arguing that it's actually good for liberals that Van Jones got pushed out of the White House, because he's too awesome to be constrained by such a job.

I really wish someone in a more mainstream media outlet would tap into the intellectual side of governance and political theory. It can be found all over the web (and I like to think in this particular corner of the web), but it's utterly lacking on TV. I suppose Bill Moyer's Journal occasionally dips into that realm, but I'm not sure if there's anyone but me watching that show.
I'm no fan of Huffington either. Huffpo is a decent news site, but Arianna herself seems devoted to making liberals look hysterical.
Oh, and as to your comment about progressives needing to embrace incrementalism, I agree to a certain point. I think it's important that we have people trying to shift the Overton window to the left, but I'd rather they sound more like Anthony Weiner and Alan Grayson than Michael Moore (though Moore is a good guy to have on our side too).
What I don't think we need is this whole segment of the progressive movement that's decided that the only way to move the Overton window to the left is to constantly badmouth Democrats, largely using the exact same attacks the right uses. I don't get that, but I see it happening all over the blogosphere. Lotsa people who claim to be on the left who can't do anything but talk about Obama being a secret Muslim Republican, and Rahm Emmanuel selling us out, etc.
I don't get it, do they think that driving Obama's unfavorables up is going to move the cause forward?


I could get behind liberalism if there was a movement within it to hold accountable those fellow liberals who sabotage the cause.

Liberals have plenty of sites like 'Crooks and Liars" or Mediawatch to keep an eye on the excesses of conservatives... why can't they do the same to keep an eye on the excesses of fellow liberals?

Next time Michael Moore says he's going to sabotage the healthcare debate by framing it as the US vs. Communism, organize liberals to boycott his short-sightedness. That's a kind of attitude of accountability and honor that I think has broader appeal to moderates.

>> ^chilaxe:
I think there's an endlessly rich intellectual world lying beneath the surface of politics, but all we ever see of it is the borderline anti-intellectualism of folks like Arianna Huffington arguing that it's actually good for liberals that Van Jones got pushed out of the White House, because he's too awesome to be constrained by such a job.


I really wish someone in a more mainstream media outlet would tap into the intellectual side of governance and political theory. It can be found all over the web (and I like to think in this particular corner of the web), but it's utterly lacking on TV. I suppose Bill Moyer's Journal occasionally dips into that realm, but I'm not sure if there's anyone but me watching that show.

I'm no fan of Huffington either. Huffpo is a decent news site, but Arianna herself seems devoted to making liberals look hysterical.

Oh, and as to your comment about progressives needing to embrace incrementalism, I agree to a certain point. I think it's important that we have people trying to shift the Overton window to the left, but I'd rather they sound more like Anthony Weiner and Alan Grayson than Michael Moore (though Moore is a good guy to have on our side too).

What I don't think we need is this whole segment of the progressive movement that's decided that the only way to move the Overton window to the left is to constantly badmouth Democrats, largely using the exact same attacks the right uses. I don't get that, but I see it happening all over the blogosphere. Lotsa people who claim to be on the left who can't do anything but talk about Obama being a secret Muslim Republican, and Rahm Emmanuel selling us out, etc.

I don't get it, do they think that driving Obama's unfavorables up is going to move the cause forward?

>> ^rougy:
>> ^xxovercastxx:
Effective at what? What is he accomplishing by making these statements; particularly in session? If he had said this on a news or talk show, that would be different. Why does Congress need to talk about what a moron Giuliani is? It has no bearing on anything Congress ought to be working on.
The only thing this accomplishes, that I can think of, is it gets Grayson back in the news. I can only speculate on whether or not that's his intent, but he's clearly not doing anything productive.
>> ^rougy:
>> ^xxovercastxx:
He may be right but what is the point of making these statements in session? I think he was just getting cold without the spotlight shining on him and decided to make another scene.

Yeah, I guess you're right.
Silence is so much more effective.


Yeah, you're right.
He should just shut up.
You win.


No, really, you win. You're right.

What can be accomplished by speaking the truth?

Especially if your a congressman speaking on the floor of congress?

Shhhhh.....

During Katrina, the local government fucked up pretty much everything and the federal government went out of their way to make sure nobody could fix those mistakes. The locals did not follow procedure, initially, and when they finally got their shit together, the feds focused on making them look as bad as possible instead of helping the citizens, including blocking aid from foreign countries that offered.

I'm not sure exactly why Obama should be criticized over Haiti. See, Louisiana is part of the USA whereas Haiti is another country entirely. Obama doesn't actually have any responsibility for Haiti. I'm inclined to think any Republican criticizing Obama over Haiti is just looking for something negative to say. The Republicans have spent the last several years telling us that only US citizens matter, so why would they suddenly care about Haiti unless it's self-serving?
>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
For example - I don't really see a whole lot of people getting on Obama's case for 'taking his sweet time' in dealing with Haiti. During Katrina, people whined about Bush's slow response before the Hurricane had even left New Orleans. But the fact was Federal relief was already moving before the storm even hit, and things only got really bad because of the stupidity and sluggishness of Nagin and Blanco (Democrats). Haiti is a horrible disaster and things down there are deteriorating rapidly. Relief has been slower getting there than it was for Katrina, and yet I don't hear Mr. Doofus blaming Obama for that. Why is is OK to blame Katrina's bad outcome on Bush, but Obama gets a pass for Haiti?

>> ^xxovercastxx:
Effective at what? What is he accomplishing by making these statements; particularly in session? If he had said this on a news or talk show, that would be different. Why does Congress need to talk about what a moron Giuliani is? It has no bearing on anything Congress ought to be working on.
The only thing this accomplishes, that I can think of, is it gets Grayson back in the news. I can only speculate on whether or not that's his intent, but he's clearly not doing anything productive.
>> ^rougy:
>> ^xxovercastxx:
He may be right but what is the point of making these statements in session? I think he was just getting cold without the spotlight shining on him and decided to make another scene.

Yeah, I guess you're right.
Silence is so much more effective.



Yeah, you're right.

He should just shut up.

You win.

Effective at what? What is he accomplishing by making these statements; particularly in session? If he had said this on a news or talk show, that would be different. Why does Congress need to talk about what a moron Giuliani is? It has no bearing on anything Congress ought to be working on.

The only thing this accomplishes, that I can think of, is it gets Grayson back in the news. I can only speculate on whether or not that's his intent, but he's clearly not doing anything productive.

>> ^rougy:
>> ^xxovercastxx:
He may be right but what is the point of making these statements in session? I think he was just getting cold without the spotlight shining on him and decided to make another scene.

Yeah, I guess you're right.
Silence is so much more effective.

>> ^xxovercastxx:
He may be right but what is the point of making these statements in session? I think he was just getting cold without the spotlight shining on him and decided to make another scene.


Yeah, I guess you're right.

Silence is so much more effective.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
Another vid from the Doofus? Yawn. The Republicans deserve plenty of crap, but not for what this guy harps on. What the Republicans deserve crap for, the Democrats deserve 100X crap for. And "Republicans hate government"... Not the Bushes to be certain. Government spending went up under Bush2 by quite a lot. That's what they deserve crap for though.
A more fair tirade would be, "Politicians hate freedom and the American people - including Mr. Doofus."


Except...that everything Grayson said was true.

I do enjoy myself some Alan Grayson, but I wish politicians would be less about "the party" politics and more about being individual politicians.

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