*promote KnivesOut on them Birthdays with a dem Lux Interior (October 21, 1946 – February 4, 2009)!!

Freddie was awesome, but I don't get the "in color" part.
He died 1991, when color film was readily available.
Color film of when he was born in Zanzibar in 1946 may have been rare, but what am I missing?

That's about $2 worth of silver:
http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1946-1964-Silver-Roosevelt-Dime-Value.html

I chose the year 1946 to elicit opinions about when Hamas or Palestinians at large might stop fighting, not because it's a feasible item on the table.

I agree with you that Israel has taken away the freedoms of the people in Palestine, however I feel that that freedom was lost by the people because of their continued backing of Hamas and Hamas's continued attacks against Israel.
I think that both parties are at fault to some degree, but I also believe the burden of the blame rests with Hamas and their continued requests for the destruction of Israel. To answer your questions directly:
1b. Do you disagree with any of, "The core Hamas themselves are (generally speaking) just haters like WBC or the KKK and they get support now from the citizens because they're all collectively being severely oppressed by Israel." ?
I agree that Hamas are just hater racists. I believe that they have integrated themselves into the Palestinian people with a hate and blame based marketing campaign that has the Palestinian children learning how to kill Jews in class. This campaign is reinforced by some of the policies of the Israeli government as an unintended consequence. I have consistently seen any positive developments towards peace wind up being corrupted by the outrageous demands of Hamas that they will not settle for anything but the complete elimination of Israel and the refusal to recognize the Israeli state.

"2b. Do you think, if a free Palestinian state were created with the 1946 borders, that Hamas would retain enough support from the people to continue fighting with Israel, which would keep their lives constantly under threat, just as is the case in Israel now? Personally, if the citizens weren't being oppressed, I don't think they would favour killing anybody, and would choose a live-and-let-live policy so they could raise a family in peace and seek success in the world."
Perhaps, but Hamas has stated many times that their goal is not just reverting back to the 1946 borders, but the elimination of Israel. They've ingrained that into the people of Palestine and as we are discussing this I fear that this may be a situation where peace can not be brokered because of the constantly reinforced hatred towards the Jewish people. I pray it doesn't revert to a situation like that of WW2 where entire cities were eliminated in order to get Germany to eventually collapse. (We didn't just do it to the Japanese, although the comparison may be more accurate) Besides reverting back to the 1946 borders isn't really feasible, or justified, but that is a WHOLE different discussion. (There weren't borders in 1946 as all of Palestine was under British control from WW1)

"Can you substantiate that? Celebration alone makes someone a terrorist? And "blight on humankind" doesn't even have meaning. They ARE humankind. They're not an affliction."

I can actually, celebration of an innocents death in my opinion shows a lack of a soul and a lack of sympathy towards other human beings. Celebrating the death of a child is about the most evil thing I can think of, yet Islamic extremists do it on a regular basis. It makes you a monster and puts you outside of humankind. So yes it makes you very much an affliction on humankind. Unfortunately it is very likely a symptom of humankind as well, but like an infection is a symptom of being alive, sometimes it must be abraded and removed completely.
As humans we have to value life and celebrate life, not death. I feel the same way about the KKK or any other organization that divides the human species into groups and has devalued one of those groups to the point where the death of one of them is something to be celebrated. That is hate and it is evil. Evil, real evil, exists in this world and it can be seen in the video above.

Celebrating the death of innocents isn't in and of itself something that makes a person a terrorist, it merely reinforces the fact that Hamas is a terrorist organization.

All this yet I still like to play FPS. Huh...gonna have to dwell on that.

I've interacted with sb a hell of a lot on VS, and he has a habit of avoiding questions. He's also one of maybe three people on the Sift mature enough to actually accept criticism, agree with it, and change. There's a significant chance that he'll agree and answer my questions.

As for your answers, thanks for them. I think you're mostly right in your answers, and where we differ is inconsequential (but I'm assuming you agree that Israel has taken away the freedom of Palestinians in Gaza). There's all sorts of assumptions in my mind that clearly didn't make it to the screen, and I also conflated groups of people that should remain distinct. I think Hamas are probably, at their heart, a group of hateful war-like bigots who have found popular support against a clearly-defined enemy in a fight for freedom. So:

1b. Do you disagree with any of, "The core Hamas themselves are (generally speaking) just haters like WBC or the KKK and they get support now from the citizens because they're all collectively being severely oppressed by Israel." ?

2b. Do you think, if a free Palestinian state were created with the 1946 borders, that Hamas would retain enough support from the people to continue fighting with Israel, which would keep their lives constantly under threat, just as is the case in Israel now? Personally, if the citizens weren't being oppressed, I don't think they would favour killing anybody, and would choose a live-and-let-live policy so they could raise a family in peace and seek success in the world.

3. Point conceded to you and BRM.

4,5. Those were directed only at sb's justification for his position based on a video of a journalist celebrating dead bodies. I don't take great issue with anything you said there, except one place:

celebrating the killing of an innocent makes you a terrorist and a blight on humankind

Can you substantiate that? Celebration alone makes someone a terrorist? And "blight on humankind" doesn't even have meaning. They ARE humankind. They're not an affliction.

@Kofi Did you find any yet?
Oh and I think Shineyblurry was more just trying to educate you Messenger, not just answer your questions. So here's my answers for you:

"1) Which part of, "Palestinians in Gaza are the prisoners of Israel, and Hamas is fighting against Israel because Israel has taken away the freedom of Palestinians in Gaza," do you disagree with?"
All of it. Hamas is a globally recognized terrorist group. Hamas has done more to take away the freedom of it's people than it has good. By continuing to push an antisemitic world view and continually calling for the outright destruction of Israel they have done nothing for their people over the last 40 years. If Hamas would actually accept one of the many peace agreements that have been laid forth over that time, we would not be having this discussion. Instead they kill civilians and place launch pads next to playgrounds.
"2. Do you think that Hamas would continue fighting Israel if Palestine returned to its 1946 borders?"
Absolutely. like Bicyclerepairman said, even if the borders went back to the 1946 borders the goal isn't borders it is the elimination of Israel entirely and the death of Jews worldwide.
"3. Do you think Hamas would stop fighting if all Israelis in the world were killed, but some other country kept Palestinians confined in Gaza and continued the embargo?"
Bicyclerepairman hit the nail on the head here. But I think that if all the Jews were dead and France ran Israel and kept Palestinians in Gaza they would have a much more difficult battle as it is a lot harder to identify "French" as a race and that diffuses their Nazi themed marketing machine of "BLAME THE JEWS". But I'm sure they would find a way, or slowly push Muslim and Islamic law to become the law of the land in France (Or other European countries for that matter). Something you can not do in Israel currently.
"4. Are there any rules against celebrating after killing your enemy?
5. Is killing someone worse than celebrating the killing?"
These were civilians. Not enemies. Where we can celebrate the death of Osama Bin Laden in the United States, we morn when innocents die. Especially children. And if a US soldier kills civilians while in active duty he is prosecuted and sent to jail or possibly even executed. So killing is worse than celebrating, but celebrating the killing of an innocent makes you a terrorist and a blight on humankind. That's not to say that killing of innocents is off the table, lord knows plenty of it happened during World War 1 & 2 and as a measure of war, while I personally find it a disgusting tactic and something to be avoided you can reach a point where drastic actions must be taken.
For example, North Korea. If they should ever get aggressive, with the overwhelming amount of brainwashing that goes on in that country it is very likely that many of the civilians will wind up being killed in any conflict.
But Israel and Palestine should NOT be at that point.

I'll answer some of messengers questions:

"1. Which part of, "Palestinians in Gaza are the prisoners of Israel, and Hamas is fighting against Israel because Israel has taken away the freedom of Palestinians in Gaza," do you disagree with?"

Gaza is now basically a prison camp, and yes, Israel is behind that, but thats not why Islamic totalitarian terrorists are fighting. They are not seeking freedom, they are seeking islamic totalism and the extermination of jews.

"2. Do you think that Hamas would continue fighting Israel if Palestine returned to its 1946 borders?"
Yes, probably.

"3. Do you think Hamas would stop fighting if all Israelis in the world were killed, but some other country kept Palestinians confined in Gaza and continued the embargo?"

If the occupiers were muslims, imprisoning and ruling Gaza with an islamic iron fist, then yes, probably. It is a strange and sad fact that Islamic societies are rabidly anti-semitic and anti-everything-not-islam, and at war with any neighbour that doesnt conform to islam, while being strangely content and silent if oppressed by fellow muslims, as is the case in so many islamic countries, where were the islamic suicide bombers fighting the oppression of Saddam?, The taliban, kohmeini? Muslims, especially women, are suffering every day all over the place, and most of the suffering is NOT caused by Israel or the west, but by islamic or muslim thugs at the helm of an oppressed people. I'd love for the palestinians to have freedom, but not just from Israel, but also from the violent ideology of the terrorists claiming to fight for them.

"4. Are there any rules against celebrating after killing your enemy?

5. Is killing someone worse than celebrating the killing?"

Firstly, The enemy is not israeli civilians, secondly this question sets up a false dichotomy: obviously killing is worse than celebration, but celebrating the death of innocent people doesnt exactly show that you are ready for peace or reconcilliation.It shows that Hamas' tactics are not simply last-resort, desparate actions from an imprisoned people, but something they at some level rejoice in doing. If Hamas were the peace-loving hippie freedom fighters you seem to think they are, they surely would not celebrate like this?

Yes and no. But I have to get rid of your loaded terms and misleading juxtapositions. First, nobody here is a murderer. They are at war with Israel, and they killed people on the other side, just as Israel does to Palestinians.

Second, the guy clamouring to see bodies is a broadcaster. This means he is not one of the killers himself. It also means he's a paid propagandist, maybe some loudmouth like Keith Olbermann or Glenn Beck.

Third. That's not even "the cause". The cause is Palestinian freedom, and part of that includes killing Israelis because they are the enemy of Palestine. If the celebrate the deaths, that has nothing to do with the cause itself.

The only difference you're showing me between Israel and Palestine is that Palestinians publicly celebrate the deaths of their enemies while Israel is more Western, so they don't. That's not enough of a distinction to claim that their cause of freedom isn't noble, so don't conflate the two.

That's the "No" part. The "Yes" part is, the cause, which is their own freedom, is a noble cause.

There. I've actually answered your questions. You've avoided answering mine by asking misleading questions.

Here are my questions (some repeated):

1. Which part of, "Palestinians in Gaza are the prisoners of Israel, and Hamas is fighting against Israel because Israel has taken away the freedom of Palestinians in Gaza," do you disagree with?

2. Do you think that Hamas would continue fighting Israel if Palestine returned to its 1946 borders?

3. Do you think Hamas would stop fighting if all Israelis in the world were killed, but some other country kept Palestinians confined in Gaza and continued the embargo?

4. Are there any rules against celebrating after killing your enemy?

5. Is killing someone worse than celebrating the killing?

Answer my questions straight without dodging.

>> ^artician:

>> ^Deano:
http://news.google.co
m/newspapers?nid=1946&dat=19740927&id=EYY0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=7qEFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2860,3762583
According to this article he suffered injuries during the scene which took 3 months to film.

HE suffered injuries? What about the crocs? That was kind of shitty that they used real animals, I really thought it was faked.


Apparently he wrangled the creatures and was very good at that.

There's no way you'd be allowed to do this today and rightfully so. The seventies were a different time, as we're recalling a lot in the UK right now...

>> ^Deano:

http://news.google.co
m/newspapers?nid=1946&dat=19740927&id=EYY0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=7qEFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2860,3762583
According to this article he suffered injuries during the scene which took 3 months to film.


HE suffered injuries? What about the crocs? That was kind of shitty that they used real animals, I really thought it was faked.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1946&dat=19740927&id=EYY0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=7qEFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2860,3762583

According to this article he suffered injuries during the scene which took 3 months to film.

George Orwell said this better back in 1946 in his essay "Politics and the English Language"

>> ^dannym3141:

>> ^EMPIRE:
oh for fuck sake... HOW??? how can you walk around and breathe at the same time with such an obviously useless brain?
Seriously, is this guy borderline retarded? And if he is who was the moron who let him work at a place with highly flammable liquids?

Imo, we live in a world where we're pretty much wrapped in cotton wool. Stub your toe? Make a claim.
We're an arrogant race.. we think everything is safe, and we think we're automatically the top of the food chain whilst forgetting the hard work that got us there
When you think about it you realise that behind all these laws and safety regulations and stuff, we're just animals surviving. We've developed some cool ways to do it in style, but that's still what we are.
If you got dumped on an earth with no sign of human technology, would you be fucked? I think 95% of us would be!


I just think there are stupid people in the world. There are what? Over 6 billion people in the world now? With those type of odds. Someone is going to hit the stupidity jackpot.. (IE, its a million to one shot that an idiot would look in to a fuel tank with a lighter. Boom we have a winner) and a lot of times it's not that they are stupid, Its just that they do not THINK or Even want to. (IE Lady falling on her face while walking and texting. On live TV) I worked Tech support for years. I've had arguments with people over just getting them to check the damn power plug and then have them be surprised when its really unplugged.

"Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe."
- H. G. Wells (1866-1946)

Thanks!

In reply to this comment by Lowen:
>> ^notarobot:

" blocked in your country regin due to sony... blah blah.." Fine, I'll turn on modify headers.
Edit: Dammit, still blocked! Freedom of information rating low here.
Are one of these the right video?
Despotism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKcEbcwIrPw
Democracy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyVU00eJkOw


It's the first one you linked.