Just stopping to say kudos for your Free Palestine playlist, I agree with almost everything you say in your intro to the list. A lot could be done on the subject with the advent of a little compromise. Good luck with opening narrow minds on one of the thinnest of subjects!

Also, cool Spider avatar, he was my second choice when I was choosing mine.

cool video. love the graphics. think the message is clear enough. post it, post it ya rabble rowser

In reply to your comment:
“Check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlas5Wm0ZYM

What do you think?”

http://www.videosift.com/video/Richard-Hammond-288MPH-Car-Crash-Top-Gear
incase you missed it

http://www.videosift.com/video/Kilted-Scotsman
http://www.videosift.com/video/Underworld-Born-Slippy-from-Trainspotting-soundtrack
http://www.videosift.com/video/Edinburgh-A-Wonderfully-Made-Timelapse

for your scots wha hae list. NB you can change your settings (on each individual playlist) so members can suggest posts on your playlist.

gwaan, I have been researching and reading this stuff for over a decade now. I am not anti-palestinian and I have even been enlightened over the last few years. I know that the palestinians were the ones to suffer as a result of arab countries attacking Israel in 1948. I know their situation is terrible because of the way they have been treated by their own people and Israel. But I do know that most of the stuff I hear about Israel is simply not true.

Believe me, I know a lot about whats going on in the middle east.



In reply to your comment:
“ My mind isn't closed - there are many fine Articles and videos on Israel/Palestine - many by Jews and Israelis - you just haven't posted any yet.

Read as much as you can on Israel-Palestine (and Islam). Read books by Elmer Berger, Alfred Lilienthal, Norman Finkelstein, Tanya Reinhart, Tony Judt, Benny Morris and Ilan Pappé. Read Jimmy Carter, Chomsky, Edward Said - and books by other Palestinians . As an American read the following famous article published by Harvard University (http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/Research/wpaper.nsf/rwp/RWP06). Read books written by Zionists and those who opose Zionism. The American media is biased - as many of my Israeli friends will admit. Try reading the BBC website for a more objective view. Also read the Israeli press - their discussion of the issues involved is a lot freer than in America.

If you truly care about Israel and Palestine - make your own mind up - don't let someone else make it up for you.

In reply to your comment:
“It doesnt matter. I sent you articles. I could show you accounts from people. I could even get you personal interviews from palestinians who will tell you what's really going on but in the end you'll just say its anti-palestinian Israeli propoganda.

So what could I do. People believe what they want even if the truth is shoved in their faces.

You cant truly want peace with a closed mind. ””

http://www.videosift.com/video/If-Americans-Knew

In reply to your comment:
“"Most palestinians are not so cruel, unfortunately many are." - you are really arguing that some Palestinians accidentally kill their children????

"Well I guess you don't know the palestinians." Have you ever met a Palestinian, an Arab or a Muslim in your life? Have you ever been to Palestine, the Middle East or an Islamic or Arab country?”

So what if she's an aid worker. You dont need to be an expert in Islam and palestinian law to know whether people are wealthy, depressed, suffering and so on. In fact an aid worker would probably be more reliable than an "expert" on palestinian law and islam.

In reply to your comment:
“The woman in question is an aid worker - not an expert on Islamic law or the Israel/Palestine situation. Watch this:

http://www.videosift.com/video/Hagel-Tells-it-Like-it-Is

Finally an American senator speaks the truth - about Iraq, the suppression of the Palestinians and the real motivation for acts of terrorism by so called Muslim extremists.


In reply to your comment:
“Why do you say the article is a load of rubbish? The author of the article is a Pakistani Muslim. Are you going to tell me that she made up the information? Unless the article has been completely fabricated there is no way to discredit it. This author doesnt have a reputation for making things up.

In reply to your comment:
“That times article is a load of rubbish - the typical line you get from people who like to paint all Muslims as crazy fanaticals. This article is much better:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/2006/08/11/what_really_motivates_suicide_bombers.html

Professor Robert Pape of the University of Chicago the author of Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism, who has conducted the most in-depth research into the motivations of suicide bombers argues that the Martydom explanation of suicide bombing is totally wrong.

His main conclusion is that suicide bombing is less about religious fundamentalism than secular or political grievances:

"There's a faulty premise in the current strategy on the war on terrorism. That faulty premise is that suicide terrorism and al- Qaida suicide terrorism in particular is mainly driven by an evil ideology Islamic fundamentalism independent of other circumstances.

However, the facts are that since 1980, suicide terrorist attacks from around the world over half have been secular. What over 95% of suicide attacks around the world [are about] is not religion, but a specific strategic purpose - to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland or prize greatly and this is, in fact, a centrepiece of al-Qaida's strategic logic, which is to compel the United States and western countries to abandon military commitments on the Arabian peninsula."

Those who oppose Palestine, and support America's presence in the Middle East like to piant a picture of crazy religious fanatics who are motivated solely by religion - this way they can condemn their actions off-hand while ignoring their true motivations.”””

Why do you say the article is a load of rubbish? The author of the article is a Pakistani Muslim. Are you going to tell me that she made up the information? Unless the article has been completely fabricated there is no way to discredit it. This author doesnt have a reputation for making things up.

In reply to your comment:
“That times article is a load of rubbish - the typical line you get from people who like to paint all Muslims as crazy fanaticals. This article is much better:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/2006/08/11/what_really_motivates_suicide_bombers.html

Professor Robert Pape of the University of Chicago the author of Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism, who has conducted the most in-depth research into the motivations of suicide bombers argues that the Martydom explanation of suicide bombing is totally wrong.

His main conclusion is that suicide bombing is less about religious fundamentalism than secular or political grievances:

"There's a faulty premise in the current strategy on the war on terrorism. That faulty premise is that suicide terrorism and al- Qaida suicide terrorism in particular is mainly driven by an evil ideology Islamic fundamentalism independent of other circumstances.

However, the facts are that since 1980, suicide terrorist attacks from around the world over half have been secular. What over 95% of suicide attacks around the world [are about] is not religion, but a specific strategic purpose - to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland or prize greatly and this is, in fact, a centrepiece of al-Qaida's strategic logic, which is to compel the United States and western countries to abandon military commitments on the Arabian peninsula."

Those who oppose Palestine, and support America's presence in the Middle East like to piant a picture of crazy religious fanatics who are motivated solely by religion - this way they can condemn their actions off-hand while ignoring their true motivations.”

I am looking into the Article on jordanian citizenship and the possibility that I received incorrect information. However, my point still stands. Israel is not guilty of apartheid as the country has a policy of not discriminating against muslims and christians as I mentioned in the quote from Barak.

In reply to your comment:
“Article III(2) of Jordanian Law No. 6 of 1954 on Nationality (last amended 1987) states that: "Any person who, not being Jewish, possessed Palestinian nationality before 15 May 1948 and was a regular resident in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan between 20 December 1949 and 16 February 1954."

There is no provision in the Jordanian citizenship laws that discriminates against Jews - simply for being Jewish. Jordan was flooded by Palestinian refugees after they were forced off their own land by the Jewish army, Irgun and Haganah. This huge influx of refugees left Jordan with a difficult situation. It gave citizenship to non-Jews because otherwise they would have been stateless. However, Jewish people who possessed Palestinian citizenship before 1948 were not stateless and had citizenship of a new country - Israel.

In reply to your comment:
“Ok I'm back from my mini vacation with my kids. Damn there are so many comments here and I dont have time to deal with all of them. I hate when these things come up when I'm on vacation.

Farhad, Joedirt and others, Palestinians are not Israeli citizens. If you want to argue that Israel is praticing apartheid then be prepared to criticise every arab country in the region. While Israel is not perfect it is a secular pluralistic society that accepts all religions. In contrast to many Arab countries that have declared Islam to be the state religion. Anyone in the world can become Israeli. Jordon has a law barring only Jews from becoming citizens and Jews and christians are descriminated against and are not provided with the same rights as muslims in every Arab country.

In 2002 the Israeli Supreme Court ruled that the government of Israel is not allowed to allocate land based on religion or race. Here is a quote from Israels Chief jusstice Aharon Barak "The principle of equality prohibts the state from distinquishing between its citizens on the basis of religion or nationality...The Jewish character of the state does not permit Israel to discriminate between its citizens"

Critisizing Israel is one thing, singling out Israel is anti-semitic

””

http://www.videosift.com/video/Land-Down-Under-Happy-Australia-Day

for your ozzie playlist

Gwaa, no one said Israel is perfect. Ofcourse there will be some level of discrimination against arabs. That may never change. It just so happens that Israeli settlers and a lot of orthodox israelis are discriminted against as well. I've heard first hand from Israelis that many of them dont like first Arabs, second orthodox jews. In fact one secular Israeli who was removed from Gaza as part of the disengagement was declined housing in a secular settlement inside Israel because he was classified as a gaza settler and they didnt want his type around.

So there's discrimination. It doesnt mean its apartheid.

In reply to your comment:
“In response to your ill-informed comments: "If you want to argue that Israel is an apartheid nation then prove it by showing how it discriminates and racially segregates its OWN citizens."

It always annoys me when people say that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. Firstly, this is just factually wrong, for example Kuwait is a democracy. Secondly, democracy does not simply mean the rule of the majority. A democracy is also measured by the way the majority treat the minorities - how they protect minority rights.

Israel is well known for treating its Arab population as second class citizens. In fact during the recent invasion of Lebanon, the majority of people killed by Hezbollah rockets in northern Israel were Arabs who were not given access to bomb shelters. Assad Ghanem, senior lecturer in political science at Israel's Haifa University has argued that "This is not a democracy, it is an ethnocracy...We are not full citizens, this country is only for the Jews." Arab Israelis now make up 20 percent of Israel's six million-plus population, but until very recently there was not a single Arab minister (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6254691.stm). The appointment of the first Arab minister is an important step, and one which should be applauded - but the backlash from many areas of the Israeli public shows what a divisive issue this is in Israel.

Formally, Israeli law guarantees equality to Israeli Arabs, but in reality Israeli Arabs experience discrimination in many aspects of life. A report by an Israeli judge (Theodor Or) who wrote 'The Report by the State Commission of Inquiry into the Events of October 2000', stated that:

"The Arab citizens of Israel live in a reality in which they experience discrimination as Arabs. This inequality has been documented in a large number of professional surveys and studies, has been confirmed in court judgments and government resolutions, and has also found expression in reports by the state comptroller and in other official documents. Although the Jewish majority’s awareness of this discrimination is often quite low, it plays a central role in the sensibilities and attitudes of Arab citizens. This discrimination is widely accepted, both within the Arab sector and outside it, and by official assessments, as a chief cause of agitation." Furthermore, the Orr Commission of Inquiry's report stated that the "Government handling of the Arab sector has been primarily neglectful and discriminatory", that the Government "did not show sufficient sensitivity to the needs of the Arab population, and did not take enough action to allocate state resources in an equal manner." As a result, "serious distress prevailed in the Arab sector in various areas. Evidence of distress included poverty, unemployment, a shortage of land, serious problems in the education system, and substantially defective infrastructure.'"

The National Committee for the Heads of the Arab Local Authorities in Israel addressed the unequal treatment of Israeli Arabs in a document produced in December 2006. They argued that: "The Israeli legal system includes a number of core laws that produce and reinforce inequality between the Arabs and the Jews in Israel (de jure) ... The official bias is not restricted to symbols such as the Israeli flag, but also to deeper legal issues concerning all Palestinian Arabs ... [t]he official definition of Israel as a Jewish state created a fortified ideological barrier in the face of obtaining full equality for the Palestinian Arab citizens of Israel ... We, the Palestinians in Israel, are an integral part of this place ... Israel has tried over the past decades to disengage us from this place, not through physical transfer but through intellectual emotional transfer. Israel has tried to create a new identity on the basis of 'loyalty to the state' ... The State has not determined a position acceptable to us yet in terms of nurturing our Arab culture."”

http://www.videosift.com/video/The-Rapping-Song-first-ever-live-rap-on-UK-TV#leavecomment

HAHAHA I'm rappin , I'm rappin, I'm rappin to the beat!

I thank you for an informed and well-thought out answer to my question.

QM

I understand most but computer game clips? How's that bad?

If your country is Israel, judging from some of your previous comments and the links that you have posted I will have a tough time convincing you of anything.

>>> No, I live in the States. I'm Jewish by blood but not religion, and it may or may not surprise you to know that I view all religions as paths to God, Islam included.

(An aside: I'm disappointed that most American Jews are liberals...that could simply be a cultural thing).

>>> I understand your views and concede you know far more about the politics of the Middle East than I do.

>>> I could be totally wrong in my assumptions, but from what I see and read, your view that Israel has a right to exist is sadly, a minority opinion. Still, I salute you for it.

>>> I know there are two sides to this story, but what I've mostly seen is Israeli Jews giving up territory and receiving not a word of thanks, Jews being the victims of rocket attacks and Jews being the victims of homicide bombers. Yes, innocent Palestinians die when the favor is returned.

>>> I could be wrong in what I've been shown, but is the reason Palestinian refugees are still with us because other Arab nations refuse to let them in, the better to keep them a thorn in the side of Israel?

>>> (I seem to remember a time during the 90s where free trade between Palestinians and Israelis was making all prosperous and things were getting better. But it was relatively brief).

>>> A question for you: if a secure Palestinian State were created tomorrow, would the rest of the Arab world cease to demand Israel be "wiped off the map?"


--QM