Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

We've been to the emergency room around 7 times in 10 years - and never had a substantial wait. I won't bore people with those stories, as I'm sure Americans have heard them a million times - (see Sicko).

But I will mention something else about the public healthcare system that is sometimes overlooked. I'm glad my neighbors have a minimum level of healthcare too. The kids that are in class with my kids, the people I ride the bus with every day too. It's a common good here in Australia and I think that's how it should be. Quality healthcare should not be a luxury only the rich can afford.

I live in a post-soviet nation which just last year ranked lowest in terms of quality of health care in the EU - and for good reason. I couldn't explain our system if I wanted to, it's that chaotic; made up from remnants of soviet infrastructure and new institutions that were created in the 90s, but suffice to say that one pays for other folks' medical care in taxes AND when one has to make a doctor's appointment/perform a procedure as well - unless they have full insurance (which more often than not people don't). I'd say up to half of the population does not have the social benefit of employer-covered insurance and less than half of all the uninsured have a privately purchased health care plan. There is a national health service in name only - it just doesn't do what it's supposed to. The prices for the services are generally reasonable, the problem is that the country's welfare sucks, with the majority of pensions being below the minimum consumer basket(!!!).
Having said that, people sometimes have to wait months to get government-funded surgery, but that's line-based waiting and usually for transplants afaik, because there just never seem to be enough of those around. While there are private clinics, I've never heard of anybody having to wait longer in a state hospital because of bureaucracy or because they couldn't afford to pay extra - that's just wrong.

Now, as far as a public health care option is concerned I can say this: as an Eastern-European country we have our fair share of soviet-sympathizers, but they're the minority. However, even people that could now be called nationalists often reminisce about how great Soviet health care was - nobody paid a single dime and everybody got the same treatment (almost, actually - ruling party members were usually taken to military hospitals - I wonder why...). Anyway, QM can spout his BS all he wants, but socialized health care works, and the fact that it worked for the Soviet republics doesn't mean that it goes hand-in-hand with communism, it means that it just plain WORKS.

As far as the US is concerned, I just sifted this:
http://www.videosift.com/video/Health-Insurance-Insider-Speaks-Out-on-Fear-Tactics

Other great stuff from Bill Moyers:
http://vodpod.com/watch/1887246-bill-moyers-journal-money-and-the-news

*edit - what dag said. I'm kind of shocked at how any of the rich assholes that oppose public health care in the US haven't given the concept of herd immunity a single thought, or, that the opposition hasn't called them out on this. Then again I suppose the assholes expect their kids and grand-kids will be living in barb-wire fenced environments to keep the 'common folk' away.

Personally I think the words insurance and health care should not be allowed to be placed together.

The insurance market is based around making a profit, ultimately it means DENYING coverage in any way possible. Their motivation is not to help you. But to help their accounts to stay in the black. Their most important customers are those who are not in need of any health care but pay their insurance anyhow.

Am an advocate for the single payer health system.

However I understand that is akin to socialism for most Americans, even though most Americans probably don't remember exactly what that word means anymore.

The government now is trying to basically regulate the public insurance market into making it accessible to all Americans and not simply arbitrarily denying coverage. The government is already involved in the Medicare system for citizens over 65. By all accounts that system is working well. The only problem being the high cost of medication which is a drug pharmaceuticals issue not a medicare one.

In Kuwait there is universal health care for all residents and citizens. Everyone receives a medical card. If I have a tooth ache I can go to my local clinic and in the hour or so get treatment. I can go to an emergency clinic and get looked at right away if am in severe pain.

There is adequate health care provisioned for all. The problem arises in getting access to higher level services that are rationed or placed in a priority system for citizens first and expats second. Citizens are and can be taken abroad for treatment, the government pays for that. Sometimes the queue extends to a few months but this mostly only applies to non critical cases. Only knowing people within the medical community might get you moved forward. But this is a lack of investment issue, the hospitals and general infrastructure has not been invested in or expanded due to 4 different governments in the last 3 years, political infighting, the replacement of MOH heads and a general lack of leadership. These are symptoms that are now being dealt with through voter action.

At the same time Kuwait has a large private health care sector independent of the public one. With only government intervention to prevent malpractice. You can receive almost all treatments offered publicly in private practice bar really high end stuff. The cost is very high however but comes with a more personalized service and better facilities. The major problem in the private sector is a beauractic crunch to further development due to MOH restrictions. Most of the time these are motivated by private interests interfering.

Overall the health of this nation far exceeds most other places I lived in, the major problems now in Kuwait are life style based due to poor diet choices, smoking and such leading to diabetes and obesity being a large killer, followed by cancers, heart disease and so on.

To offer a few anecdotes of an American living in the U.K., I have been to see my doctor a few times already for bronchitis or other mild illnesses without any issues or hassles beyond paying 7 pounds per prescription. There are no stupid forms to fill out, no dicking around with the insurance company, its just go in, see a doc and leave. As a young person, I cannot hope to afford decent medical insurance on my salary back in the US, so its up to my parents to supply it.

Another anecdote of a scenario I would likely not have seen in the United States:

I was crossing the road when I saw a bicyclist lightly hit by a car making a left turn. Although knocked down, the bicyclist appeared uninjured. After checking himself and his bike over, he shook the driver's hand and went on his merry way.

If he had manifested any injuries later, he could be confident that NHS would take care of him. In the US, the cyclist would have needed to obtain the insurance information of the driver which would most likely start a chain of events to which only lawyers benefit.

It makes me sad that people buy all the B.S. from health insurers as they only hurt themselves and their communities.


Oh and one final F.U. to American insurance companies: I once had a friend take me to the hospital late one night because I was vomiting blood and unable to walk/move. Even though I was rather expensively insured, my claim was denied because my illness was ultimately not life threatening. I guess I should have known better, stupid me. $4000, I can only imagine what the cost would have been had I called an ambulance.

My dad broke his leg something fierce and sat waiting for x-rays for 4 hours in a bunch of pain... :-/

I've had a bunch of stuff done for free, but there a long waiting period.

Here's another story of mine, this one hits a little closer to home.

My mother had a my youngest sister when I was 12-13 and we actually had insurance. Apparently we had too much insurance. Let me explain.
She was covered through the school that she worked for and had a family plan; and my step father had a similar plan through his employer. Their reasons for keeping both insurance companies was that they recently were married and still had their same plans in place.

Fair enough, but when my mom had my sister BOTH companies refused to pay for it claiming the other insurance company had to cover the costs. Let me tell you, being a teenager when your family is $50,000 in debt WITH insurance is no picnic. Things eventually got settled but it took literally YEARS to get it done. During those years i saw my mother spend entire nights on the phone saying things like "I want to speak to your supervisor" and so on. It also ruined my parents credit, made receiving basic care for the new baby difficult, and caused bill collectors from the hospital to call constantly.

^Also, gwiz I dont know where you're from exactly, but my wife broke her arm here in the states. We went to the emergency room and waited 2-3 hours.

Of all the people I know, nobody who's had a bone fracture have ever had to wait more than 30 minutes after arriving in the ER for an x-ray, cast and a consultation. Nobody. And that's my ass-backwards country.

OPTIONS are always better than OPPRESSION

I guess I should have known better, stupid me. I can only imagine what the cost would have been had I called an ambulance.

supra shoes

I've lived in Southern Ontario for most of my life, and 12 years ago I was diagnosed with Diabetes. Since then I've made a few trips to the ER for various reasons. A non-diabetes related incident was when I moved into my first apartment with a roommate back 5 years go. I was doing dishes and washing the inside of a glass when it broke, I received a rather excellent cut to the knuckle of my right pinkie finger. My roommate drove me to the ER, the nurses snickered at our hap-hazard bandage of old socks and paper towels, and about 45 minutes later I was on my way home, all stitched up, and no worse for wear. Oh, and not worrying about cost.

I've gone to the ER when I've been very physically ill, and dehydrated from vomiting. This is a serious issue for anyone with Diabetes. I'm always treated in good time, and taken care of quite well. The hospital here (Grand River Hospital, Kitchener, Ontario), in my experiences, have always been fast and courteous. The only bill I've ever had to pay was for an ambulance ride ($50) when I had a seizure from heat stroke and low blood sugar two summers ago. Even after that experience I had to go for tests to make sure I wasn't epileptic. I was scheduled for an EEG and an MRI, and got both appointments the following week, only two days apart. And even those tests didn't take all day, I was in and out in less then two hours for both of them.

If I had to think about cost everytime I needed medical assistance, I'd go crazy. The fact I can walk into any ER in Ontario and just show them my OHIP card (Provincial photo health ID) and be treated is a substantial ease on my mind. I pay my taxes, and that helps keep this system running as it does. And it runs just fine.

If they every attempted to give us the health system the Americans have, I could almost guarantee there'd be riots in the streets.

I think it's good.