Thanks for posting this.

Now come the cop unapologists, "But they get paid to do this! If they didn't want to clean up dead bodies and get ptsd, they shouldn't volunteer to do it."

Thanks Hp.

>> ^Lawdeedaw:

Now come the cop unapologists

As an unapologist I do have to say this does bring up interesting questions, like "Should this even be a profession?"/"Can we trust people to do something like this long term if we know it breaks them in the process?".

I fully acknowledge that the sort of policing that most western countries have is better than many that they could be compared to. Clearly police could be better funded, equipped and trained, but I wonder if there is a fundamental problem with the vocation as envisioned that requires a radical redesign to address the problems that exit in liberal democracies, problems that apparently effect both the officers and society at large.

Dgandhi man, thank you!

The entire reason Statism & the whole idea of Bureaucratic Public Officers [like Police, Judges, Senators, Representatives, and Presidents] controlling your life for the "good of the public" are idiotic is because of the inherent conflict trying to equate violence with good faith.

Healthy & meaningful agreements aren't forged by threatening violence against an someone.

And then people wonder why cops have PTSD and Judges lie thru their teeth without remorse.


@bareboards2
Which is why it's frustrating that most of society complains about these problems but still support the bureaucratic system of violence that enables them.


>> ^dgandhi:

>> ^Lawdeedaw:
Now come the cop unapologists
As an unapologist I do have to say this does bring up interesting questions, like "Should this even be a profession?"/"Can we trust people to do something like this long term if we know it breaks them in the process?".
I fully knowledge that the sort of policing that most western countries have is better than many that they could be compared to. Clearly police could be better funded, equipped and trained, but I wonder if there is a fundamental problem with the vocation as envisioned that requires a radical redesign to address the problems that exit in liberal democracies, problems that apparently effect both the officers and society at large.

@dgandhi and @GenjiKilpatrick

I don't know if it's because my faith in humanity is practically non-existent, but I have a hard time imagining a society which does not have some form of law enforcement, for when the preventive measures and education fail... The powerful (be that with brawn or dough) will always be tempted to prey on the weak, and some will heed that temptation. Then what?

>> ^hpqp:

@dgandhi and @GenjiKilpatrick
I don't know if it's because my faith in humanity is practically non-existent, but I have a hard time imagining a society which does not have some form of law enforcement, for when the preventive measures and education fail... The powerful (be that with brawn or dough) will always be tempted to prey on the weak, and some will heed that temptation. Then what?


I'm inclined to respond "Yes, obviously, look at how the police act.".

I'm not claiming that power vacuums will somehow remain vacant, I'm simply suggesting that there are probably better ways to fill them. I think that any number of radical departures could serve the need to reduce power abuse better than the current system.

My favorite option is going to lose me libertarian support, but I think conscription would work very well for law enforcement.

Lets say that everybody had to serve 21 days every 3 years, 7 weekends of training followed by 1 week of enforcement. We have some professional trainers, but the cops on the street are civilians for 99.3% of their lives. Since the number of officers would be very high in this case, most of them won't even have to take time off work, they just have a gun, badge and a radio with them at all times, and the closest officers are dispatched to do what is needed.

Down side: everybody has to do it.
Up side: more cops, nobody has to do it much, and nobody get in the habit of being above the law.

Other downsides: personal vendettas, poor training caused disasters, criminals with a badge, etc, etc.

I understand the sentiment behind the idea, but it's putting way too much trust in the masses.

>> ^dgandhi:

>> ^hpqp:
@dgandhi and @GenjiKilpatrick
I don't know if it's because my faith in humanity is practically non-existent, but I have a hard time imagining a society which does not have some form of law enforcement, for when the preventive measures and education fail... The powerful (be that with brawn or dough) will always be tempted to prey on the weak, and some will heed that temptation. Then what?

I'm inclined to respond "Yes, obviously, look at how the police act.".
I'm not claiming that power vacuums will somehow remain vacant, I'm simply suggesting that there are probably better ways to fill them. I think that any number of radical departures could serve the need to reduce power abuse better than the current system.
My favorite option is going to lose me libertarian support, but I think conscription would work very well for law enforcement.
Lets say that everybody had to serve 21 days every 3 years, 7 weekends of training followed by 1 week of enforcement. We have some professional trainers, but the cops on the street are civilians for 99.3% of their lives. Since the number of officers would be very high in this case, most of them won't even have to take time off work, they just have a gun, badge and a radio with them at all times, and the closest officers are dispatched to do what is needed.
Down side: everybody has to do it.
Up side: more cops, nobody has to do it much, and nobody get in the habit of being above the law.

>> ^hpqp:

Other downsides: personal vendettas, poor training caused disasters, criminals with a badge, etc, etc.
I understand the sentiment behind the idea, but it's putting way too much trust in the masses.


Because none of that shit happens now of course...

The abuse of power is the problem, increase the number of officers by a few orders of magnitude, and give them no reason to cover for each other, and I see no reason to believe that it would be worse than it is now.

Also, change who does the job or not, all cops should have an always on audio/video recording device on them whenever they are on duty. The full tape from any cop within half a mile should also be required as evidence in order to charge someone with a crime, or for the officer to be allowed to defend themselves from charges of abuse.