George Bush's "No New Taxes" pledge comes to mind. Obama has to win votes back, not alienate "liberals" more. Not to mention the effect these type of things have on the wingnuts.

And from the supporters we'll hear nothing but excuses and apologies. Party of peace.

Boosting this quality contribution up in the Hot Listing - declared quality by blankfist.

Double-Promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Wednesday, January 12th, 2011 11:03am PST - doublepromote requested by blankfist.

I maintain that he's better than McCain...I also maintain that my participation in this non-Democracy makes me feel disgusting sometimes. We need a real democracy.

Definitely better than McCain. However, It's a bit like being held hostage by the police.>> ^Yogi:

I maintain that he's better than McCain...I also maintain that my participation in this non-Democracy makes me feel disgusting sometimes. We need a real democracy.


I don't thinks so. Personally, I'm done with him.
>> ^blankfist:

And from the supporters we'll hear nothing but excuses and apologies. Party of peace.

Yeah I don't see too many fervent Obama supporters anymore besides some who work towards the status quo to be maintained. Other than that pretty much everyone is either off the bandwagon or simply not paying attention to what has been going on. This report being on Real News gives me an indication that most haven't heard about it.

So, this means Obama is a war criminal as well, huh?

>> ^Yogi:
I maintain that he's better than McCain...I also maintain that my participation in this non-Democracy makes me feel disgusting sometimes. We need a real democracy.


I maintain that nobody cares who is "better" than the other. America voted for the guy in the bar--slick talk, with a Cadillac and we wonder why we have a rash now?! This is our culture. The truly good guys never win. They never won in grade school, they never won in highschool, and they never won in politics.

And this is Democracy. Democracy is like any other government--based upon the people it can be very evil or very good. To call it a non-Democracy is simply because we have no voice--like every Democracy.

"When you amplify everything (Everyone's votes,) you hear nothing." John Stewart.

>> ^gwiz665:

So, this means Obama is a war criminal as well, huh?


You mean Nobel Peace Prize winner.

Why keep these gitmo vermin alive? Torture "doesn't work" and they'll just run back to Al-Gayda if released.

Execute 'em. We need the hotel rooms for the next crop.

No excuses or apologies here. He promised to shut Guantanamo down, end the war in Iraq and give us universal health care, and none of those things have happened. The criticism is fair.

I'm disappointed in Obama and the democratic congress. I expected much more from them. The most depressing aspect of my problem with Obama is that he was the best option in 2008, and will almost certainly be the best option in 2012. If I vote for him again, I risk sending a message that I condone the continuing corporatization of the democratic party and allow it to further shift to the right in its futile attempt to triangulate. If I vote against him, I pave the way for a government that is even worse. If I don't vote at all, no one will notice or care.

I think we, the people, (as Chris Hedges says) need to revitalize the radical left, to put social justice back at the top of the priority list. The radical left is our moral compass. Most of the positive change that has taken place in this country started with the people, whether they were unionists, suffragettes or civil rights activists. Only after reaching critical mass did the politicians take action. We need to build a movement.

>> ^Lawdeedaw:

>> ^Yogi:
I maintain that he's better than McCain...I also maintain that my participation in this non-Democracy makes me feel disgusting sometimes. We need a real democracy.

I maintain that nobody cares who is "better" than the other. America voted for the guy in the bar--slick talk, with a Cadillac and we wonder why we have a rash now?! This is our culture. The truly good guys never win. They never won in grade school, they never won in highschool, and they never won in politics.
And this is Democracy. Democracy is like any other government--based upon the people it can be very evil or very good. To call it a non-Democracy is simply because we have no voice--like every Democracy.
"When you amplify everything (Everyone's votes,) you hear nothing." John Stewart.


Thanks for scolding me troll.

obliging excuse: the last record for pretending to tell the truth was like, 8 years

Though we disagree about the worth and viability of socialism, I admire your commitment to your principles.


The conservative who opposes change is just as vital to the republic as the liberal, especially because 99 "new" ideas out of 100 fail.


And I meant what I wrote about Gitmo: if torture has no value, why bother capturing and warehousing these jihadists?



>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

No excuses or apologies here. He promised to shut Guantanamo down, end the war in Iraq and give us universal health care, and none of those things have happened. The criticism is fair.
I'm disappointed in Obama and the democratic congress. I expected much more from them. The most depressing aspect of my problem with Obama is that he was the best option in 2008, and will almost certainly be the best option in 2012. If I vote for him again, I risk sending a message that I condone the continuing corporatization of the democratic party and allow it to further shift to the right in its futile attempt to triangulate. If I vote against him, I pave the way for a government that is even worse. If I don't vote at all, no one will notice or care.
I think we, the people, (as Chris Hedges says) need to revitalize the radical left, to put social justice back at the top of the priority list. The radical left is our moral compass. Most of the positive change that has taken place in this country started with the people, whether they were unionists, suffragettes or civil rights activists. Only after reaching critical mass did the politicians take action. We need to build a movement.

Hey Mr. Fear, how nice of you to try and intimidate people who disagree with you. You use your influence on this site in a very authoritarian manner for someone who is so against authoritarianism. I'm not trying to start a fight, just pointing something out you might not have noticed. I've done this kind of thing too in the past, so I know what I'm talking about.

Why poison the well and discourage a healthy conversation? >> ^blankfist:

And from the supporters we'll hear nothing but excuses and apologies. Party of peace.

Whatever happened to pro-life?
>> ^quantumushroom:

Why keep these gitmo vermin alive? Torture "doesn't work" and they'll just run back to Al-Gayda if released.
Execute 'em. We need the hotel rooms for the next crop.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Hey Mr. Fear, how nice of you to try and intimidate people who disagree with you. You use your influence on this site in a very authoritarian manner for someone who is so against authoritarianism. I'm not trying to start a fight, just pointing something out you might not have noticed. I've done this kind of thing too in the past, so I know what I'm talking about.
Why poison the well and discourage a healthy conversation? >> ^blankfist:
And from the supporters we'll hear nothing but excuses and apologies. Party of peace.



It's ok I'm not intimidated...I'll just keep threatening QM with the wrath of god to feel like a big man and all is well.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Though we disagree about the worth and viability of socialism, I admire your commitment to your principles.

The conservative who opposes change is just as vital to the republic as the liberal, especially because 99 "new" ideas out of 100 fail.

And I meant what I wrote about Gitmo: if torture has no value, why bother capturing and warehousing these jihadists?

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
No excuses or apologies here. He promised to shut Guantanamo down, end the war in Iraq and give us universal health care, and none of those things have happened. The criticism is fair.
I'm disappointed in Obama and the democratic congress. I expected much more from them. The most depressing aspect of my problem with Obama is that he was the best option in 2008, and will almost certainly be the best option in 2012. If I vote for him again, I risk sending a message that I condone the continuing corporatization of the democratic party and allow it to further shift to the right in its futile attempt to triangulate. If I vote against him, I pave the way for a government that is even worse. If I don't vote at all, no one will notice or care.
I think we, the people, (as Chris Hedges says) need to revitalize the radical left, to put social justice back at the top of the priority list. The radical left is our moral compass. Most of the positive change that has taken place in this country started with the people, whether they were unionists, suffragettes or civil rights activists. Only after reaching critical mass did the politicians take action. We need to build a movement.



If you keep talking there will be doom. DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMM!!!

I never scolded you Yogi. I do not consider your opinion stupid, or dumb, or ignorant. It is cookie-cutter and lacks cause-and-effect, but it is no less than every one else's opinions.

So tell me what was troll-ish and I will attempt to change the content while still making my point. Do not knock the actual points made (How we voted, that we are in a Democracy, that the good guys never win because nobody cares about them, ect.)

Save the "troll" label for those who are real trolls please (You know the ones who call your father a fag and your mother a douche.) Otherwise tell me how my comments were just like theirs.

>> ^Yogi:
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
>> ^Yogi:
I maintain that he's better than McCain...I also maintain that my participation in this non-Democracy makes me feel disgusting sometimes. We need a real democracy.

I maintain that nobody cares who is "better" than the other. America voted for the guy in the bar--slick talk, with a Cadillac and we wonder why we have a rash now?! This is our culture. The truly good guys never win. They never won in grade school, they never won in highschool, and they never won in politics.
And this is Democracy. Democracy is like any other government--based upon the people it can be very evil or very good. To call it a non-Democracy is simply because we have no voice--like every Democracy.
"When you amplify everything (Everyone's votes,) you hear nothing." John Stewart.

Thanks for scolding me troll.

Your mother's a fag and your father is a douche. I'm like the anti-troll.
>> ^Lawdeedaw:

I never scolded you Yogi. I do not consider your opinion stupid, or dumb, or ignorant. It is cookie-cutter and lacks cause-and-effect, but it is no less than every one else's opinions.
So tell me what was troll-ish and I will attempt to change the content while still making my point. Do not knock the actual points made (How we voted, that we are in a Democracy, that the good guys never win because nobody cares about them, ect.)
Save the "troll" label for those who are real trolls please (You know the ones who call your father a fag and your mother a douche.) Otherwise tell me how my comments were just like theirs.
>> ^Yogi:
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
>> ^Yogi:
I maintain that he's better than McCain...I also maintain that my participation in this non-Democracy makes me feel disgusting sometimes. We need a real democracy.

I maintain that nobody cares who is "better" than the other. America voted for the guy in the bar--slick talk, with a Cadillac and we wonder why we have a rash now?! This is our culture. The truly good guys never win. They never won in grade school, they never won in highschool, and they never won in politics.
And this is Democracy. Democracy is like any other government--based upon the people it can be very evil or very good. To call it a non-Democracy is simply because we have no voice--like every Democracy.
"When you amplify everything (Everyone's votes,) you hear nothing." John Stewart.

Thanks for scolding me troll.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Hey Mr. Fear, how nice of you to try and intimidate people who disagree with you. You use your influence on this site in a very authoritarian manner for someone who is so against authoritarianism. I'm not trying to start a fight, just pointing something out you might not have noticed. I've done this kind of thing too in the past, so I know what I'm talking about.
Why poison the well and discourage a healthy conversation? >> ^blankfist:
And from the supporters we'll hear nothing but excuses and apologies. Party of peace.



What intimidation? Did I attack anyone directly like you just did? No. Your comment sounds a lot like someone trying to use misdirection and attacking me instead of focusing on what's important here: The 'change we can believe in' Obama is really a war criminal like Bush. Your first comment above was much more on point. This one is self-righteous and beneath you. You can do better.

What you meant, I believe, is that Obama was the best corporate smooth-talker of 2008.

To start a movement you need two things. Change that is mesurable and verified, and action.

For example, putting out corporations from Congress is not a movement (Because it is not a changing of principles.) Corporate exile is already the promised status quo. Yet those people running for office realize a dreadful truth--we won't vote for them because they are not viable. So this means what? It means we have not voted for those who would kick Haliburton out of Congress and so our movement doesn't give a rat's ass about who pays Congress' salary.

If you want to correct corporate control over elected officials, it would not be a "movement" you are looking for, it would be to fix the movement you already have. (I.E. The Tea Party was supposedly a fix for the republican party. (Unfortunately, in my opinion, they suck... and were exactly the kind of "fix" the republican party did not need.)

A real change, a real movement, however, would be to vote for the guy that doesn't promise voters the moon.

A real change would be to vote for the guy that doesn't have a D or R or I or L in front of his name, but to vote because he isn't an asstard. It would be to vote for the man, not the platform--which is exactly why the republican party is decrepit.

You know what I find most amusing? The left would have been better served by Ron Paul because he would have closed Gitmo, ended Iraq, repealed the Patriot Act and so much more. Instead you got promises based on platforms.

I am a Republican because I don't like the party, not because I do...

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
I'm disappointed in Obama and the democratic congress. I expected much more from them. The most depressing aspect of my problem with Obama is that he was the best option in 2008, and will almost certainly be the best option in 2012. If I vote for him again, I risk sending a message that I condone the continuing corporatization of the democratic party and allow it to further shift to the right in its futile attempt to triangulate.

That was touche friend, that was touche. I applaud your wit and deoderant! You are an old spice man right?

>> ^gwiz665:
Your mother's a fag and your father is a douche. I'm like the anti-troll. <IMG class=smiley src="http://static1.videosift.com/cdm/emoticon/monocle_smile.gif">
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
I never scolded you Yogi. I do not consider your opinion stupid, or dumb, or ignorant. It is cookie-cutter and lacks cause-and-effect, but it is no less than every one else's opinions.
So tell me what was troll-ish and I will attempt to change the content while still making my point. Do not knock the actual points made (How we voted, that we are in a Democracy, that the good guys never win because nobody cares about them, ect.)
Save the "troll" label for those who are real trolls please (You know the ones who call your father a fag and your mother a douche.) Otherwise tell me how my comments were just like theirs.
>> ^Yogi:
>> ^Lawdeedaw:
>> ^Yogi:
I maintain that he's better than McCain...I also maintain that my participation in this non-Democracy makes me feel disgusting sometimes. We need a real democracy.

I maintain that nobody cares who is "better" than the other. America voted for the guy in the bar--slick talk, with a Cadillac and we wonder why we have a rash now?! This is our culture. The truly good guys never win. They never won in grade school, they never won in highschool, and they never won in politics.
And this is Democracy. Democracy is like any other government--based upon the people it can be very evil or very good. To call it a non-Democracy is simply because we have no voice--like every Democracy.
"When you amplify everything (Everyone's votes,) you hear nothing." John Stewart.

Thanks for scolding me troll.

All I know is that your man isn't me, but could smell like me.
>> ^Lawdeedaw:

That was touche friend, that was touche. I applaud your wit and deoderant! You are an old spice man right?

Law, I like that Ron Paul is liberal on some social issues, but his economic views would only serve to hasten the power and influence of corporations in this country, thus negating everything else. All that utopian free market stuff sounds great in the abstract, but when you put it into practice (see Chile and Argentina and the US over the past 3 decades) it fails badly. I don't want change for the worse.

You are attempting to pre-color the comments of others. It's a childish rhetorical game that adds nothing to the dialog. >> ^blankfist:

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
Hey Mr. Fear, how nice of you to try and intimidate people who disagree with you. You use your influence on this site in a very authoritarian manner for someone who is so against authoritarianism. I'm not trying to start a fight, just pointing something out you might not have noticed. I've done this kind of thing too in the past, so I know what I'm talking about.
Why poison the well and discourage a healthy conversation? >> ^blankfist:
And from the supporters we'll hear nothing but excuses and apologies. Party of peace.


What intimidation? Did I attack anyone directly like you just did? No. Your comment sounds a lot like someone trying to use misdirection and attacking me instead of focusing on what's important here: The 'change we can believe in' Obama is really a war criminal like Bush. Your first comment above was much more on point. This one is self-righteous and beneath you. You can do better.

I troll for personal amusement. You troll for some weak political gain.

Everything I've said in this thread is genuine.

Your first comment was certainly genuine. I enjoyed reading it. Then you stewed on it for a couple hours before projecting your seething frustration onto my first comment. Bad troll. Bad.

Thank you for telling me which of my comments are genuine and which are not. Anyone who disagrees with you must be a troll, because your wisdom is beyond criticism. I see that now.

Do you boys need a time out?

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

Thank you for telling me which of my comments are genuine and which are not. Anyone who disagrees with you must be a troll, because your wisdom is beyond criticism. I see that now.


You're welcome. And I'm glad you came around and we can all agree on something.

I'm very annoyed that everyone doesn't just do what I say.

I sure am glad to see my libertarian friends, who always tell me that they care about this issue so much more than I do, have so graciously decided to set aside any petty partisan squabbles they might have with us liberal supporters of Obama, and reached out to us for help in organizing a grassroots effort on this issue together, since it's too important to let our differences on other issues get in the way of making progress on this one.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:
Law, I like that Ron Paul is liberal on some social issues, but his economic views would only serve to hasten the power and influence of corporations in this country, thus negating everything else. All that utopian free market stuff sounds great in the abstract, but when you put it into practice (see Chile and Argentina and the US over the past 3 decades) it fails badly. I don't want change for the worse.


I agree, the free market does little policing. I don't think though that it would have mattered. Where it would have mattered--like Iraq and Gitmo--he could have ended those programs. The market, however, Congress would have blocked, and so you would have come out on top there too.

>> ^NetRunner:
I sure am glad to see my libertarian friends, who always tell me that they care about this issue so much more than I do, have so graciously decided to set aside any petty partisan squabbles they might have with us liberal supporters of Obama, and reached out to us for help in organizing a grassroots effort on this issue together, since it's too important to let our differences on other issues get in the way of making progress on this one.


I find it funny too--libertarians never seem to think any real government is worth its weight... Such uncomprimising views are as dangerous when on the left, right, or other...