Apple's dirty little tax secret -- Guardian

US senators and tax law professors have accused Apple of multi-billion-dollar tax avoidance – shifting billions of dollars of profits to Ireland where Apple has found a way to pay little or no tax. Apple boss Tim Cook disagrees. He insists there is no shifting going on, and that profits earned by Apple's Irish operations are down to the hard work and expertise of almost 4,000 staff in Cork. The Guardian went to the Emerald Isle to test these competing claims
NinjaInHeatsays...

Finding loop-holes in the law isn't really a "legal" way of avoiding the law.
Also, are you honestly concerned for Apple? Do you really believe corporations of such massive proportions shouldn't be heavily taxed?

People seem to forget Apple's business practices have always been shady as shit, I truly hope they get destroyed for this (though I'm well aware they won't).

renatojjsaid:

Uh... charging absurd taxes seems a lot dirtier than legally avoiding them.

renatojjsays...

@NinjaInHeat IANAL, but isn't a loophole the exact definition of legally circumventing a law?

My statement doesn't imply concern for Apple, but with our obscene tax burden. Sure, Apple is avoiding taxes, but would paying them make any difference to our hideously massive deficit?

I'd rather see Apple use that money researching a better iPhone, than have government waste it on incompetence, war, and corruption.

Also, what's up with wanting corporations to be heavily taxed? Do you think Apple's profits are obtained at the expense of society? Don't they provide anything of value (like, you know, Apple products) to justify those profits?

If you think they should be punished for being so successful, what kind of message does that send to other businesses, "if you're successful and you grow, we will award you with higher taxes"?

Seriously, it never ceases to amaze me how people sometimes uphold the most blatantly anti-capitalistic views and practices, only to accuse capitalism of being a failure.

NinjaInHeatsays...

When I'm promoted and my pay-grade gets bumped at work I get taxed more for earning more. You don't see me saying "fuck it, what's the point?".

Corporations should most definitely be taxed HEAVILY, punishment has nothing to do with it, it's simply a matter of being part of a healthy, functioning society. If you have a problem with how that taxation money is then put to use that's another issue.

And if you want to talk about the "failure of capitalism", let's examine its evolution throughout the years, would you agree it's fair to say corporations today enjoy many more freedoms and hold much more power than they did in.. well, ever?

What's amazing is how willingly people disassociate themselves from their own governing bodies, not realizing that they are those governments, they are all you have that is meant to ensure the well-being of the society you live in (regardless of how well they manage at it). And you, and any sensible person would do well to not only expect, but demand, that massive corporations who are not bound to those governments and do not rely on their "protection" would pay heavy taxes simply for that privilege.

renatojjsaid:

@NinjaInHeat IANAL, but isn't a loophole the exact definition of legally circumventing a law?

My statement doesn't imply concern for Apple, but with our obscene tax burden. Sure, Apple is avoiding taxes, but would paying them make any difference to our hideously massive deficit?

I'd rather see Apple use that money researching a better iPhone, than have government waste it on incompetence, war, and corruption.

Also, what's up with wanting corporations to be heavily taxed? Do you think Apple's profits are obtained at the expense of society? Don't they provide anything of value (like, you know, Apple products) to justify those profits?

If you think they should be punished for being so successful, what kind of message does that send to other businesses, "if you're successful and you grow, we will award you with higher taxes"?

Seriously, it never ceases to amaze me how people sometimes uphold the most blatantly anti-capitalistic views and practices, only to accuse capitalism of being a failure.

renatojjsays...

@NinjaInHeat go ahead, throw away your money paying higher taxes, no one's stopping you, but it won't give you any moral authority to demand higher taxes for other people.

I'd seriously like to understand what justifies a corporation paying progressively more taxes than the rest of us. Aren't we trying to right a wrong here, are profits in the hands of a productive entity or person something inherently bad for society? Should it be transferred to government instead, who is much better at wasting resources than petty cost-conscious businessmen?

Your hatred towards all corporations is misplaced because, believe it or not, they don't all conspire to enjoy the same amount of freedom and privileges. Government is stepping in and benefitting a select few at the expense of many. In this awful economy, many corporations have gone bankrupt or are struggling to get by, while a few benefit from massive bailouts and federal contracts handsomely paid for with the debasement of our currency and heavy taxes you so fiercely want all corporations to pay.

To me, that's neither representative of capitalism, nor of a healthy functioning society.

I think you're mistaken in your understanding that we have any substantial power or responsibility for the actions of our governments. In a democracy, your participation outside of a more influential circle is mostly symbolic. Sure, you can vote and run for office, but that limited capacity for involvement shouldn't be an excuse to shunt any criticism of government.

chingalerasays...

@renatojj-There's a fatal flaw in your argument-You assume that there are equitable rules that govern which corporate entities may enjoy a seat at the big-boy's table and those slated for consumption.
Systemic corruption to the point of excising a cancer in hopes of saving the patient would be more relevant an analogy. These huge entities who have cultivated and maintained their empires through placement of representatives, presidents, and lawmakers, and the propaganda through marketing and mind control have structured a system which consolidates their collective power and further entrenches their sustainability.

This machine appears to have effectively influenced your world view enough to play spokesperson for the criminal elite and ensure another 1000 years of indentured servitude for the bulk of the earth's inhabitants.

In other words my friend, your condition appears to be terminal.

renatojjsays...

@chingalera dude, I never assumed "there are equitable rules that govern which corporate entities may enjoy a seat at the big-boy's table", but the exact opposite of that.

There is a criminal elite, I don't think that elite is, indiscriminately, "corporations". That's childish. Most corporations are also victims of bigger corporations in bed with government, imposing abusive taxation and unfair regulation. You and NinjaInHeat need to learn to make more refined distinctions. Know your enemy.

Please don't ever dispense diagnosis on other people's world views. You stink at it!

MaxWildersays...

Ugh. This whole "controversy" makes me sick. As far as I've heard, Apple has done nothing illegal, and is only now essentially being forced to lie in the face of congress. FIX THE FUCKING TAX SYSTEM. They need to stop saying "It isn't right" and start closing the loopholes they created. If you want companies to "pay their fair share" then bringing CEOs before tribunals to shame them is NOT how to accomplish that. Writing sensible tax laws is how to do it. These politicians are just duping the public into thinking that Apple is to blame, when all it has done is follow the law to its logical conclusions.

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