You know what that tells me that I wouldn't make that joke at work? Because people I don't know may hear it, and telling jokes is not part of my job, since I'm an IT professional. This really isn't a hard concept to follow. You know what else I don't do at work? Talk about religion for the EXACT SAME REASON! But by your logic, I should never talk about religion to anyone, because someone might get offended! I don't talk politics at work because once again, it's not related to my job, and many people misinterpret things. Again, this is completely unacceptable in any other social setting? OF COURSE NOT! There are times and places for jokes, politics, and religion. Work generally isn't one of them.

It's not racism wrapped in a joke. Period. Definition of racist:

1. the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by *hereditary factors* and that this endows some races with an *intrinsic superiority* over others
2. abusive or aggressive behaviour towards members of another race on the basis of such a belief

My joke was that society tends to unfairly assume blacks commit wrongdoing just because they're black. Does that imply distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors? No. Does it say one race is super to others because of hereditary factors? No.

It's not racist. It is a social critique of inherent racism in society, mainly of people who are racist by assuming "the black guy did it" because he's black.

FYI, there are plenty of things I could say that aren't racist that are inappropriate for work. At work, you are to avoid doing or saying anything unrelated to your job that unnecessarily inhibits productivity. I really don't understand how you're having a hard time grasping this. It would be inappropriate to come to work wearing a clown wig in my job. Is that racist? NO! Is it wrong to wear clown wigs generally speaking? NO! You're being ridiculous.

HR departments exist to promote productive workplaces, period. Their gripe would be that I made a joke that could have been interpreted as racist, even though it wasn't. Sorting out whether it was racist or not is a waste of company time.

In summary, you're being ridiculous if you think all those comedians and I are racists for telling a joke that is social commentary speaking out against racism.

On to Bachmann...



You lose. She recounted her husband saying, "Now you need to go and get a post-doctorate degree in tax law." You're wrong, period, end of story. There's no "maybe" in that. He said "you need to", and she did it. According to her own words, her husband told her to do this, and she did it because the bible says "wives must be submissive to their husbands." Don't try to weasel your way out of this. That's a sexist view, period. Maher didn't mischaracterize her here in the slightest. He called out what he considers an idiotic stance that is sexist in nature. And he's right, it is sexist. Does he call her a bunch of names? Sure, but understand this - he never once implied that Bachmann or Palin are stupid or anything else BECAUSE they are women. They're stupid because they say stuff like, "I got a post-doctorate degree in law because my husband told me to, and after all, that's what the Bible says!" And guess what that means? His rant wasn't sexist. Biased? Rude? Sure. But let's call it what it was.

Calling both of them bimbos isn't sexist. He's stating they're both females who lack intelligence. He never implied all women are dumb, or dumber than men, or anything of the sort. Ditto every other joke he made, save the poll dancing, which was implying that's all she was capable intellectually of doing (not women generally), or he was being absurd juxtaposing an extreme conservative with pole dancing as a hobby, or perhaps pointing out that those so bent on "traditional values" are often the ones who commit acts that violate them repeatedly (see several high profile conservative leaders being busted for sexual harassment, homosexual encounters illegally in public places, etc). Not sure which of those, but it never suggested women are dumb because they're women. Unless of course, you're a conservative intentionally trying to misinterpret him, which in that case, kudos!

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

I'm smart enough to know I'd never make a joke like that at work.
That should tell you something about it, should it not? If you wouldn't dare tell such a joke at work, why is the implied racism suddenly OK elsewhere? Racism and prejudice are not solitaire, or economic theory. They are cultural poison.
There's an entire section of culture that has been positive in this regard, and you don't see this?!
As I said - I see it. I just do not accept it as valid. I do not consider racism "OK" just because someone is being a racist while winking slyly. I do not accept prejudice as less vicious just because someone wraps it in a joke, or song, or some other form of entertainment. In fact, I think that sort of racism is (if anything) more subtle and therefore more pernicious and harmful. To me cloaking prejudice in entertainment is a cheap dodge, and I consider those who do it to be cowards of the lowest order.
It's therefore NOT RACIST!
And yet you admit you would not dare do it at work, even among your friends. Something "not racist" would be safe at work. The only difference is that at work there is an HR department that can punish you. Therefore you admit your comment IS racist, and your HR department would FIND it racist. But at home since there is no HR department around to punish your private conversations so it's all OK, ha ha ha aren't race jokes funny?
You've never heard of a christian husband telling their wife to do something and then she did it simply because he told her to? Uhhhh, Michelle Bachmann is on record saying that her husband told her to become a tax lawyer, and she did it simply because he told her to.
That's pure Bill Maher (I.E. BS). Bachmans said "the Lord" guided her to get a legal education, and her husband said "maybe you should go into tax law". Bachman has said that she was guided by her religious faith, and all her husband ever did was encourage her to follow her promptings. Her huband did not spank her, sit her down, and "order" her to be a tax lawyer, woman.
So according to Maher, a husband supporting his wife and encouraging her to follow her spiritual impressions is "sexist"? Really? As "sexist" as these wonderful gems?
"Michele Bachman's husband commanded her to become a tax lawyer? Guess she had already mastered pole dancing."
"Sarah Palin... Speaking of dumb tw&ts... (roar of audience laughter)"
"Bachmann, along with former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin would make two bimbos and then there’s Mitt Romney, a millionaire, Newt Gingrich, a professor. We just need a Skipper and a buddy and we got Gilligan’s Island."
And on and on. Oh - but it's 'funny', so that makes it OK, doesn't it?

>> ^aaronfr:

Although I applaud her for using comedy as a way to bring the truth out and challenge the status quo (which is what most good comics do), something about this clip bothered me. It had more to do with the crowd than anything. Telling jokes to a room full of stuffy, white people at a dinner party hardly seems like the way to achieve her stated goal of re-training the Islamic fundamentalists. It was more like the audience got a chance to laugh and snicker at jokes about scary Muslims they would be too afraid to tell themselves.


You should see this video then, in which she picks up a sharia law apologist (a women can't do that according to sharia... silly, I know)

I highly doubt that "stuffy white people" are her only audience, but seriously, do you think she could get away with this kind of humour in front of Islamist fundamentalists without being killed? When she says we need to reeducate the fundamentalists in Europe, she means "we" the society, including the "stuffy white people".

As for "snickering at jokes about scary Muslims", a) a non-muslim telling such a joke would make no sense and b) the multiculturalist relativists would be screaming RACIST* and probably suing. Humour is a great way of communicating controversial subjects, and that is one reason why Islam officials are trying to silence its opponents with Blasphemy laws, when the humourists are not simply being attacked/killed by fanatics.

*which is ridiculous because Islam is an ideology, not a race. But a lot of ignorant people here in Europe, on both the right and the left, don't seem to understand that.

I'd imagine it's very hard to assemble a room of Islamic fundamentalists in Oslo.

Those were the least white people she could find in all of Norway.>> ^aaronfr:

Although I applaud her for using comedy as a way to bring the truth out and challenge the status quo (which is what most good comics do), something about this clip bothered me. It had more to do with the crowd than anything. Telling jokes to a room full of stuffy, white people at a dinner party hardly seems like the way to achieve her stated goal of re-training the Islamic fundamentalists. It was more like the audience got a chance to laugh and snicker at jokes about scary Muslims they would be too afraid to tell themselves.

Although I applaud her for using comedy as a way to bring the truth out and challenge the status quo (which is what most good comics do), something about this clip bothered me. It had more to do with the crowd than anything. Telling jokes to a room full of stuffy, white people at a dinner party hardly seems like the way to achieve her stated goal of re-training the Islamic fundamentalists. It was more like the audience got a chance to laugh and snicker at jokes about scary Muslims they would be too afraid to tell themselves.

@Payback

If the argument is that comedians can't tell Muslism jokes the way they tell Christian or Jewish jokes because liberals are too sensitive about Islam, then that is an argument against Dara Brian's thesis, not for it.

Brian's thesis is that he doesn't tell jokes about Islam not because it gets special treatment (we're too sensitive) but because that would require the audience understands Islam at something like an introductory academic level. That's a claim that shouldn't be accepted at face value.

It's like arguing non-Jews can't tell jokes about Jews because 'We don't even know what halakhot and Birkat Ha-Mizvot are!' However, Jews are commonly featured in jokes, because most jokes don't actually require an academic understanding of the subject.


@Porksandwich, a joke about Mohammad marrying a 9 year old is a joke related to Islam, but perhaps it can't normally be told because we give Islam special treatment (which is an argument against Brian's thesis).

Brian's joke is just a joke, not an argument to be defended.

>> ^rottenseed:

>> ^mentality:
I think Jimmy Carr is great. The problem is, any comedian who puts out as much content as he does is bound to have some bad material from time to time. Carr pretty much has a new set every year, whereas other comedians like Chris Rock or Louis CK waits ~4 years between specials.

Louis CK starts from scratch every time he releases a special. And he opens every show with the strong stuff from previous shows and then work on the new material. This forces him to have sharp new material.
Plus he comes out with material every ~2 years:
- Jun 2007 - Dec 2008 ~ 1.5 years
- Dec 2008 - Jan 2011 ~ 2 years
That's on top of him writing and producing his own show.


Jimmy Carr:

Comedian 5 November 2007 Live at London's Bloomsbury Theatre
In Concert 3 November 2008 Live at London's Bloomsbury Theatre
Telling Jokes 2 November 2009 Live at London's Bloomsbury Theatre

All of which are new material, and all of which are fantastic. As much as I am a fan of CK, I have to say a few of Carr's shows were better. And while this particular sift is weak, you can find clips of CK's that are pretty weak also. And that goes for pretty much every comedian.

And IMO, while CK's shows contain hilarious bits, I don't think either of them were very good as a show.

1. I can dance the tango, amongst other ballroom dances, and have won dance contests.

2. My father is a major part of space history – he was a range safety officer, blowing up missiles that went off course in the early days of the missile program – has destroyed more missiles than anyone else and no one is likely to ever catch up to him, since they know what they are doing now.

3. I love to tell stories, and when I travel, I write stories in my head to tell when I get home (did I ever tell you about spending an hour – at 10 pm in the winter night -- talking to the lone Scottish soldier guarding Edinburgh Castle and what he told me about kilts and Scottish pride?)

4. I am vain about my ears.

5. The only thing I have ever given birth to is a theater company, now defunct for ten years, and I am very proud that folks still mourn its passing. We did GREAT STUFF.

6. I am hypercritical and judgmental of others, but I am hardest of all on myself.

7. Once I moved to hippy haven Port Townsend, I grew out my armpit hair to see if I could blend in with the natives – and then scared myself in the shower because I thought it was a spider.

8. One of my best friends is my Oklahoma cousin, which is remarkable because we have never spent more than a week in each others company in five decades.

9. The precept I try to live by: “Everyone is doing the best they can in any given moment. Their best may stink, and you may need to avoid them, but it is indeed the best they can do.” I’m still hypercritical and judgmental. Even though I believe this to the core of my being.

10. I have cheated at Scrabble online.

11. I have had eight teeth pulled and braces, but my teeth are still crowded.

12. I am vain about my eyebrows.

13. I love telling jokes.

14. I was born in Alaska.

15. My mother died in 1988 and I still miss her terribly. She was funny and caring and smart.

16. Typing number 15 made me cry, which surprised me.

17. I paid $1,500 for a lifetime pass to the local arts cinema 14 years ago, which turned out to be a great investment – they recently sold some more and wanted $5,000 (that did include popcorn for life, but still).

18. I didn’t talk to my father for two years because he was an asshole when I was growing up, and now I call him every single day because he lives in a nursing home. He’s also not an asshole any more – or at least, I can walk him out of being an asshole. This transformation in our relationship is a great blessing in my life.

19. I am very very good at my job.

20. I am quick to anger.

21. I am very generous.

22. The librarians have a nickname for me. They call me The Gale, to differentiate me from all the other mere Gales, Gayles and Gails in town.

23. I have never lived anyplace with so many people named Gale/Gayle/Gail.

24. I am happy on the first day of winter and sad on the first day of summer – because the days are so frigging short in winter and they start to get longer on the Winter Solstice. And verse visa for Summer – it means the days are getting quickly shorter.

25. This list was interrupted by my friend Deb, and we went across the street for lemon drop martinis and baked poblana peppers and cheese. My friend Deb says that #25 should be: Once upon a time, I kissed too many boys.

>> ^ponceleon:

I'm always amazed that Jimmy is able to get away with Pedo/rape jokes the way he does...


I think he gets away with every joke he does because actually the stand-up side of him is a huge exaggeration of his real self. In person and when he's being interviewed he's one of the loveliest guys you could meet and clearly doesn't believe most of the stuff he tells jokes about

>> ^westy:

1) You call sum-one racist ( when it is in fact yourself that is racist) of course they will defend ther epiont of view and to then claim that that then makes them racist is just stupid. yes his content is about racisum but thats totally separate to the delivery of the joke or for sum-one to lagitimatyl critisize his delivery of the joke.
I said in my first comment "thing is the jokes are not that bad" Obviously my comment had nothing to do with race the racial nature of the jokes and was to do with the comedians delivery.

2) His skin color is not necessary for the joke to work a white comidean could have made the same joke the joke is an observation on something that is true.
3) and 4) your totaly happy that you yourself are a racist ? and acusing other people of been racist when they are not ?. I can totaly understand that every person has a degree of inbuilt racisum that is unavoidable but if you are then unable to use reasaion to stop yourself acting on those initial racist thoughts then you are a mornic fool.



>> ^Opus_Moderandi:
>> ^westy:
lol Ironic that you would make what is a racist comment yourself.
1) i dont care that he is black the piont he makes stands and the content itself is quite funny and a good comentry on disny princess syndrome or whatever its called when midea gives more of a shit about pritty white girls , its his delivery that i thought dragged on and he milked the joke to much and what then made it anoying and not entertaining.
2) His skin color is not relivent I did not evan mention his skin color ( as u said) there is no way u could get from anything i said anything to do with skin colour. you are the one bringing skin color into this in order to then accuse sum one else of being a racist.
3) you are Just being racist yourself assuming that because sum-one thought the delivery of something was not to there liking would mean by default that they are racist.
4)you are basicaly saying all white people are incapable of finding jokes about white people funny or are unable to be critical about something when its coming from sumone of another race,.
>> ^Opus_Moderandi:
>> ^westy:
>> ^Opus_Moderandi:
>> ^westy:
He made what 2 maby 3 jokes and dragged them out so long ,
thing is the jokes are not that bad but i dont get how people can be entertained with a guy just standing there repating the same thing and just dragging it out.

Said the white man....

what you said doesn't make any sense.

I was politely implying that you were being racist, saying his performance was inferior because he's black. I know you didn't say it was bad because he's black but, since he was making fun of white people and you didn't find it funny, it's a safe assumption that you are white, yes? So, what I did was run with that assumption and basically say you didn't like it because you're white.


Yep. I used racism to call you a racist, how ironic.
1) If you don't care that he is black why are you getting so defensive?
2) Not relevant? He's a black man telling jokes about white people. That's the whole point of the jokes, controversy of skin color. Saying his skin color isn't relevant is like saying air is irrelevant to breathing.
3) Again, glad you caught the irony in my comment.
4) Am I wrong?



1) In my 1st comment you will notice I used a " " to indicate that I was being very damn funny.

2) For some reason, everyone but you seemed to get the joke so, I had to explain it to you. In a totally racist way.

3) You brought out the troll in me.

4) The End.

1) You call sum-one racist ( when it is in fact yourself that is racist) of course they will defend ther epiont of view and to then claim that that then makes them racist is just stupid. yes his content is about racisum but thats totally separate to the delivery of the joke or for sum-one to lagitimatyl critisize his delivery of the joke.

I said in my first comment "thing is the jokes are not that bad" Obviously my comment had nothing to do with race the racial nature of the jokes and was to do with the comedians delivery.


2) His skin color is not necessary for the joke to work a white comidean could have made the same joke the joke is an observation on something that is true.

3) and 4) your totaly happy that you yourself are a racist ? and acusing other people of been racist when they are not ?. I can totaly understand that every person has a degree of inbuilt racisum that is unavoidable but if you are then unable to use reasaion to stop yourself acting on those initial racist thoughts then you are a mornic fool.







>> ^Opus_Moderandi:

>> ^westy:
lol Ironic that you would make what is a racist comment yourself.
1) i dont care that he is black the piont he makes stands and the content itself is quite funny and a good comentry on disny princess syndrome or whatever its called when midea gives more of a shit about pritty white girls , its his delivery that i thought dragged on and he milked the joke to much and what then made it anoying and not entertaining.
2) His skin color is not relivent I did not evan mention his skin color ( as u said) there is no way u could get from anything i said anything to do with skin colour. you are the one bringing skin color into this in order to then accuse sum one else of being a racist.
3) you are Just being racist yourself assuming that because sum-one thought the delivery of something was not to there liking would mean by default that they are racist.
4)you are basicaly saying all white people are incapable of finding jokes about white people funny or are unable to be critical about something when its coming from sumone of another race,.
>> ^Opus_Moderandi:
>> ^westy:
>> ^Opus_Moderandi:
>> ^westy:
He made what 2 maby 3 jokes and dragged them out so long ,
thing is the jokes are not that bad but i dont get how people can be entertained with a guy just standing there repating the same thing and just dragging it out.

Said the white man....

what you said doesn't make any sense.

I was politely implying that you were being racist, saying his performance was inferior because he's black. I know you didn't say it was bad because he's black but, since he was making fun of white people and you didn't find it funny, it's a safe assumption that you are white, yes? So, what I did was run with that assumption and basically say you didn't like it because you're white.


Yep. I used racism to call you a racist, how ironic.
1) If you don't care that he is black why are you getting so defensive?
2) Not relevant? He's a black man telling jokes about white people. That's the whole point of the jokes, controversy of skin color. Saying his skin color isn't relevant is like saying air is irrelevant to breathing.
3) Again, glad you caught the irony in my comment.
4) Am I wrong?

>> ^westy:

lol Ironic that you would make what is a racist comment yourself.
1) i dont care that he is black the piont he makes stands and the content itself is quite funny and a good comentry on disny princess syndrome or whatever its called when midea gives more of a shit about pritty white girls , its his delivery that i thought dragged on and he milked the joke to much and what then made it anoying and not entertaining.
2) His skin color is not relivent I did not evan mention his skin color ( as u said) there is no way u could get from anything i said anything to do with skin colour. you are the one bringing skin color into this in order to then accuse sum one else of being a racist.
3) you are Just being racist yourself assuming that because sum-one thought the delivery of something was not to there liking would mean by default that they are racist.
4)you are basicaly saying all white people are incapable of finding jokes about white people funny or are unable to be critical about something when its coming from sumone of another race,.
>> ^Opus_Moderandi:
>> ^westy:
>> ^Opus_Moderandi:
>> ^westy:
He made what 2 maby 3 jokes and dragged them out so long ,
thing is the jokes are not that bad but i dont get how people can be entertained with a guy just standing there repating the same thing and just dragging it out.

Said the white man....

what you said doesn't make any sense.

I was politely implying that you were being racist, saying his performance was inferior because he's black. I know you didn't say it was bad because he's black but, since he was making fun of white people and you didn't find it funny, it's a safe assumption that you are white, yes? So, what I did was run with that assumption and basically say you didn't like it because you're white.



Yep. I used racism to call you a racist, how ironic.

1) If you don't care that he is black why are you getting so defensive?

2) Not relevant? He's a black man telling jokes about white people. That's the whole point of the jokes, controversy of skin color. Saying his skin color isn't relevant is like saying air is irrelevant to breathing.

3) Again, glad you caught the irony in my comment.

4) Am I wrong?

Tags for this video have been changed from 'jimmy carr, telling jokes, simon cowell, security' to 'jimmy carr, telling jokes, simon cowell, security, less of a' - edited by calvados

>> ^Payback:

>> ^FlowersInHisHair:
>> ^Payback:
>> ^FlowersInHisHair:
"Not really"? WTF. Sorry, Mr Rock - don't tell me what I can and can't say.
Anybody should be able to say anything - that's what freedom of speech means. If you're offended by what somebody says, well then, wait your turn and you can say whatever you want to say too. Yay!

Actually no. Freedom of Speech only has to do with government control over what you say. Society is still more than welcome to punish you for your ideas. If you go around slandering people, and they can prove you are wrong, you will get sued. You can't just go around saying anything that pops into your head without fear of punishment. People and companies can censor anyone and anything they want in their own areas, Congress just can't make it a law. You could be fired for what you've typed here, and it wouldn't be infringing on your right to free speech. Dag is completely within his rights to come on here and remove everything you've said since you joined the Sift. You have no right to have your say here, or anywhere. You merely have the right to not have your speech limited by the government.

That's what the US Constitutional Freedom of Speech means, yes. But I don't live in the US, so what do I care about what the US Congress has to say on the matter? Still, they're free to say whatever they like about it, I suppose.

Ahhh, sorry, I didn't know you were a non-American speaking about an American telling jokes to Americans about Americans.

Hahaha, excellent

>> ^FlowersInHisHair:
>> ^Payback:
>> ^FlowersInHisHair:
"Not really"? WTF. Sorry, Mr Rock - don't tell me what I can and can't say.
Anybody should be able to say anything - that's what freedom of speech means. If you're offended by what somebody says, well then, wait your turn and you can say whatever you want to say too. Yay!

Actually no. Freedom of Speech only has to do with government control over what you say. Society is still more than welcome to punish you for your ideas. If you go around slandering people, and they can prove you are wrong, you will get sued. You can't just go around saying anything that pops into your head without fear of punishment. People and companies can censor anyone and anything they want in their own areas, Congress just can't make it a law. You could be fired for what you've typed here, and it wouldn't be infringing on your right to free speech. Dag is completely within his rights to come on here and remove everything you've said since you joined the Sift. You have no right to have your say here, or anywhere. You merely have the right to not have your speech limited by the government.

That's what the US Constitutional Freedom of Speech means, yes. But I don't live in the US, so what do I care about what the US Congress has to say on the matter? Still, they're free to say whatever they like about it, I suppose.


Ahhh, sorry, I didn't know you were a non-American speaking about an American telling jokes to Americans about Americans.