Democratic (not the party) government is people power. Without a strong government, there is nothing to stop corporations from taking over, which is why they are leading the charge to make government small.

Without democracy, individual consumers would powerless to make any kind of significant political changes, hence the push for 'individual liberty' at the expense of social liberty; and all that stuff about "markets self-regulating" is little more than a religious mantra, because there is no real world evidence that suggests such a thing is even remotely true.

The corporations have been very effective at drawing a wedge between the people and their government. They have actually fooled some of us into thinking things would get better if we were to give our power away. That's a mistake we only have to make once.



In reply to this comment by xxovercastxx:
I wonder what would happen if the government had less power? Seems to me that corporations get all their power by buying it from the government. If the government had no power to buy, would the corporations be effectively neutered?

I suppose the obvious counter-argument is that there would be nothing to keep them in check, but that's not true. The consumer would be (and always has been) the control. The problem, as always, is that the average Joe doesn't care. Very few people are willing to boycott an abusive company.

Whatever political ideology you subscribe to, I feel they will all be undone by apathetic citizens. Nothing will change unless the people change it.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Have you ever honestly questioned your belief in capitalism?
[...snip...]

I wonder what would happen if the government had less power? Seems to me that corporations get all their power by buying it from the government. If the government had no power to buy, would the corporations be effectively neutered?

I suppose the obvious counter-argument is that there would be nothing to keep them in check, but that's not true. The consumer would be (and always has been) the control. The problem, as always, is that the average Joe doesn't care. Very few people are willing to boycott an abusive company.

Whatever political ideology you subscribe to, I feel they will all be undone by apathetic citizens. Nothing will change unless the people change it.

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Have you ever honestly questioned your belief in capitalism?
[...snip...]

However what it's referring to is the reason we have such an apathetic and violent bunch of binge drinking absentee parents populating our country, breeding another generation of same.

The only thing i disagree on is the bit about foreign languages. And even then only because most of the people who say that sort of thing are racists who are trying to line themselves up with people like me, who welcome anyone into a country as long as they integrate.

I think (and i would) if you go to live in another country, you should abide by their rules, customs and conventions rather than suing the government/police force/whatever else every time you're asked FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY/OTHERS/TO DO THE JOB PROPERLY to remove an item which you feel is culturally/religiously part of you. If you still can't remove it/abide by whatever is asked of you, don't do that job. To grant someone special dispensations, i believe, is inequality not equality. Everyone has an equal right to do anything they are qualified and right for, as long as they are willing to do it to the same standard required of anyone else.

A policy of not pandering to people in this way would deal with a lot of home-grown problems as well as cultural differences with others. And i'd argue that, in the long run, it'd bring different cultures together more for obvious reasons.

I've been called racist by a certain person on this website for saying this before, and if you agree with that, then i call you an unracist. In an effort to rally for equality, you overshoot the target and end up on the other side where there is still inequality just in favour of someone else.

^ That's why government has a role. People are naturally apathetic to a lot of problems, so the role of government in those situations is to take action where people "should" be protesting in the streets. For example, several big health insurance companies have been caught canceling contracts after a person has gotten terminally ill. If we weren't a naturally apathetic people, those companies would simply be out of business, because everybody would have switched to a new company. So the government must step in and make it illegal to cancel someone's plan in those situations.

In the case of the Federal Reserve, people just don't understand it, so if it is going to change, the change has to come from government.

>> ^Sagemind:
A teacher's place is not to inspire anger in kids but to invoke creative and critical thought.
By debasing this student, both directly and publicly, he is only building more walls in the kids brain and causing him to close down even more. This is shown by the way the kid closes off and reverts to finding it all a joke.
I don't know what ever lead up to this debacle of events, as it is not shown, but the teacher should have found a more creative way to educate and inspire this student to evolve his thinking and maybe to give a dam!


What a bunch of hippy bullshit. This kind of thinking is what leads us to today's world people. All hail the new god - he travels under the guise of well-meaning. When a parent is pinned for shouting at or delivering moderate physical punishment to their child, he smiles, and another child grows up believing that they are right in all things and must regret nothing - because there are no real consequences.

When a man is jailed and sued for defending himself, his family and his home from intruders, he laughs, and another generation set out on their career choice of 'criminal' - because apparently crime does pay.

And when we tie our teachers hands so that they cannot shout at a child or give them a lengthy detention without a week's notice, when we prevent them from getting the respect (mixed with a degree of fear) from students, then we end up with apathetic under-achievers.

This man has passion and god love him for it. By rediculing this kid for idolising a bunch of fucking losers and law breakers, he might have just turned this kid into something worthy of society.

I've seen the effect that the kind of teachers you hope for has on a school. You've no idea what you're talking about. If you think that this teacher's vehemence and words were not inspiring, you're more scummy than the kid that got the ear-bashing.

A thousand upvotes for dystopian's comments. Preach it brother.

In reply to this comment by EndAll:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/provocateurs-at-end-the-fed-rally.html
http://www.courant.com/news/politics/hc-web-hal-turner-0819aug19,0,1700724.story

that shit pisses me off.they been doin that since the 60's..
who would call themselves an american and then set his own neighbors up so the government can come down hard.take away a few more liberties maybe?
gah..i dont know how you do it man.
i had to stop watching all that stuff..it was making me sad and apathetic.
ill peek every now and again,but i cant do the research it requires.
bravo my man..bravo.

I’m the guy that put this video together. I just happened to check it and saw it had over 60,000 views. I was shocked; I really didn’t think an hour long video would survive on the internet. So out of curiosity I Googled a bit to see where it was embedded. I found this page and just finished reading the ongoing discussion. Normally I let people talk amongst themselves but I decided this time to make a few quick points.

1. This is not a ‘Documentary’. People calling it that are just creating a straw-man. No, I didn’t interview all of those involved and no, I didn’t include an additional hour of cops helping old ladies across the street. I’m just a guy that stitched together similar videos so all of them could be seen in a single location. Videos are a form of expression intended to evoke an emotional response. Education is a personal matter. You should never rely on a video to give you the information you need to make informed decisions.

2. Those that were hoping that there would be some pompous intellectuals sitting around discussing the matter are apparently missing the point. This is the introduction to the conversation that viewers are supposed to have, though I would rather that the blatant brutality would entice viewers to begin standing up for themselves and actively working toward repression of police power instead of gathering quotes from Wikipedia. That’s not to say such intelligent discussion isn’t needed, but passion is what is lacking in America. This is just like the main point of #1. If you want to see an intense discussion that actually addresses the core problem and leads to real change, start one.

3. I made this video for a few simple reasons. Essentially I had grown tired of people making excuses and treating the occasional leaked clip as an isolated incident that warrants nothing more than remark at the water cooler. I was curious to see how much the average apathetic individual could take before the light finally comes on and they realize there is a very serious threat that is growing exponentially. (plus its just a sad fact, the average Joe is more likely to watch a video than read a report) I researched each of these cases myself to the extent I felt was necessary so that I could verify the situation wasn’t misleading. I wanted to show only people suffering arrest and violence at the hands of police while not breaking any laws. This means that anyone of us could find ourselves in these situations at any given time. I’ve personally suffered abuse and false arrest (kidnapping). Nearly every one of my friends and family members also have similar stories. Anyone. Anytime. i.e. It CAN happen to you or your spouse... or your child.

4. Please avoid the “few bad apples” delusion. The ratio of cops that abuse to those that don’t is irrelevant and is a distraction (though I would contend that the claim that only a few are bad doesn’t stand up to real world scrutiny and yes I know some cops personally). The real problem is the mindset that is so pervasive here, not the number of 'bad' cops. The cop's belief that they are separate from and superior to the citizenry is only dwarfed by the much worse mentality that citizens have by actually believing that too (as well as the belief that abuse is acceptable, etc.) It’s this mentality that continues to create an atmosphere that can only result in creating ‘bullies’. Cops are human. Remove accountability and replace it with blind praise, sheepish obedience and a bullet proof vest… that will turn any man into a monster.

5. For those that are interested in the discussion aspect that is missing from this video, would like to see a list of most source material (both video and written reports) or if anyone would just like to know more about where I am coming from, then you can check out the supplemental blog I posted along with the video. It’s at MySpace, so it’s not like I’m doing this for ad revenue or attention. If nothing else, you may want to read the letter I received from a cop that watched the video. I posted it at the top of the blog.

Sorry for clogging up your comment section with such a long winded post. Once I start typing I find it hard to stop. There’s a lot to say and I barely scratched the surface. Anyway, I’ll leave you guys to continue the debate.

Thanks to everyone for watching and sharing this video. I hope that something good will come of it.
-BF

P.S. It’s come to my attention that the video isn’t very clear during one specific incident, because it happens so fast and the footage is so grainy. The boy that was beaten in the subway was shot in the back while another officer had the boy pinned down. He later died from his injuries.

>> ^dannym3141:
I thought this trailer (when i saw it a few days ago) was confusing and did little to spark my desire:
I don't know why they're being morphed into draenei characters
I don't know why they're suddenly in a jungle
I don't know why they're suddenly fighting people
I don't know who's in the right/wrong regarding this fight
BEFORE i saw the trailer, i was hyped to shit about this film. Having seen it, i'm left feeling apathetic. Having said that, it's james cameron. True lies, terminator 2, terminator, aliens, abyss.... these are some of the most legendary films of our time.
Though i will say that getting sigourney weaver in the film doesn't do much for me - people were telling me it was an aliens reunion with beihn rumoured as well, but if it's just their voice, who cares, ya know?
Rather hear joe dimaggio.


Just by watching the trailer:
-They don't get "morphed", their consciousness is transfered or possibly they are running a waldo. Which actually would be more in tune with the movie's title.
-They always were in a jungle, the human base was a foothold.
-If you were being invaded by aliens (in this case, humans) you'd fight too. As for the human operatives, they probably "went native".
-Knowing Cameron's works and ideals, they are probably both "right". The humans probably have some dire reason to be there, and the aboriginals have every right to defend there homes.

Me, I think this is probably an Iraq/Afghanistan allegory.

I thought this trailer (when i saw it a few days ago) was confusing and did little to spark my desire:
I don't know why they're being morphed into draenei characters
I don't know why they're suddenly in a jungle
I don't know why they're suddenly fighting people
I don't know who's in the right/wrong regarding this fight

BEFORE i saw the trailer, i was hyped to shit about this film. Having seen it, i'm left feeling apathetic. Having said that, it's james cameron. True lies, terminator 2, terminator, aliens, abyss.... these are some of the most legendary films of our time.

Though i will say that getting sigourney weaver in the film doesn't do much for me - people were telling me it was an aliens reunion with beihn rumoured as well, but if it's just their voice, who cares, ya know?

Rather hear joe dimaggio.

Just thought i'd leave this here in case you didn't read it on the page - it might explain something as to why people get in some way snippy when people american people talk about "europe".

Please ignore the insult at the end, it wasn't aimed at you, i include it because it's in the original, i directed it to the people who mass-upvoted a comment comparing the diversity of "europe" to the diversity of the US.

I hope you understand what i mean here, it's really hard to explain how apathetic we are about being part of "europe" and how we feel completely unconnected. I can't think of a parallel for you, it's just a feeling you get when you live here for a while. And a feeling of "not being connected to the countries you are supposed to be connected to" is a really unique emotion

>> ^MarineGunrock:
>> ^conan:
backpacking for two weeks? through europe? i guess he's another of those ignorants who think of europe as one single country. it's a CONTINENT! what do you expect to see of a whole continent in two weeks? even if he managed to see 4 countries that's nothing. awkward attitude.

Why do you have to be a dick about it? If I can easily make a road trip through the U.S. and see all kinds of sights, why couldn't I backpack through Europe in two weeks? What you just said is the equivalent of saying "he must be another of those ignorants that thinks of the U.S. as one single country and not 50 states." WTF does it matter if he said he's going backpacking through Europe? I if go backpacking and visit Paris, London,
Berlin and Barcelona, why am I not allowed to say "Europe"?


So many right things and so many wrong things in 1 paragraph. You're right, his pomposity was bullshit, but so is your comparison of america to europe.

Although you can OF COURSE visit a great section of europe in 2 weeks, i think what many people don't understand is that a lot of people over here have never even consider themselves european. I can barely call on an equivalent for you guys because there's nothing similar for you that i can imagine.

We never really refer to europe exept in terms of the european parliament etc. So for most people, if you were having a conversation and said "yeah i went to europe, i went to spain and portugal" they'd chuckle - not because they're being pompous or anything, but because most of us see it as such a vague term for such an aggregate mass of countries - and we don't feel bound to each other in any way. We'd only say we'd been to "europe" if we'd visited like 90% of the total countries. And even then we'd only say something like "i've been to most countries in europe"

I'm having a very hard to explaining that although we have a collection of countries that are associated and the european union and all that jive, to the average european civilian, we could not be further divided from our other european neighbors.

I as a british citizen feel more associated, connected, whatever with the USA than i do with "europe"

/facepalms all round

I think next chance i see i'm going to randomly lash out at someone and make a vaguely pro-american statement and see how many votes i get

>> ^EndAll:
There's more to the arguments than all the talk about thermite, though. Take for instance the account of former 9/11 videographer Kurt Sonnenfeld. As for the thermite though, there still are some valid questions to be raised - a recent scientific study was released that added credence to these questions.. check it out, it's linked to in this here article.
And Nordlich, I can empathize with the way you feel. It's hard not to be pessimistic, apathetic, or just feel utterly hopeless about everything. There are individuals and organizations all over the world though that fight every single day to educate people and inform them of the truth. It's up to us to get involved and enact real change.


Nooooo, you've been suckered in by their utter non-scientific drivel too! What exactly in Kurt's writings did you find to be of any credibility? Really. He goes on about how if black boxes were destroyed, how come other bits that he saw weren't. Um... because things like that happen all the time when it comes to destruction, some things get utterly destroyed, while other bits escape seemingly unharmed due to the way their were thrown from the area or whathaveyou. I mean THIS is the sort of shit that the ENTIRE 'truther' movement is based around, these sorts of bullshit 'I saw molten metal, must have been steel, how could it have got that hot without explosives' SHIT.

Argh, it drives me mad.

And Kurt himself left the country due to the suspicious death of his wife where he was accused of murdering her. Which he has now turned into a way for them to stop him showing something or other about 9/11... which is madness.

And the 'scientific study'. *sigh* You need to spend some time reading the posts here because everything those supposed scientists claim as being 'proof' is utterly debunked.

Almost completely everything to do with the 9/11 conspiracy nonsense is people seeing things happen one way, against what they expect (the buildings falling straight down for instance) and then ascribing something they do know to look like that (a demolition) and forcing the facts to fit.

It's utterly infuriating. And you can spend a long time in 'their world' on the net and seem to think you're reading material backed up by others, but it's all a cyclic loop of the same stuff feeding back from one person to another.

Don't get suckered in.

As for the New World Order... meh, I haven't spent the time looking into it, and don't plan on wasting my time on it frankly.

There's more to the arguments than all the talk about thermite, though. Take for instance the account of former 9/11 videographer Kurt Sonnenfeld. As for the thermite though, there still are some valid questions to be raised - a recent scientific study was released that added credence to these questions.. check it out, it's linked to in this here article.

And Nordlich, I can empathize with the way you feel. It's hard not to be pessimistic, apathetic, or just feel utterly hopeless about everything. There are individuals and organizations all over the world though that fight every single day to educate people and inform them of the truth. It's up to us to get involved and enact real change.

>> ^dgandhi:
This is why I think that all law enforcement officers should be cam'd and mic'd at all times.

Next to impossible. The average cop is already lugging between 40-60lbs of equipment, they're not going to start lugging stuff for video recording. On top of that you're going to find huge privacy issues not only for the police, but for the average citizen. Even in-dash cams are cutting it pretty close on both sides of the border. That's only allowed for "the public good." and it has been challenged in court as a privacy violation.

I can tell you what the problem is in most cases. Down there in the US, you needed cops. Well that's just great. You need cops, well here's the problem. You decided that it would be a great idea to half the hiring requirements(that is lower the standards), and now you have sub standard officers in a lot of cases. Want an example of how bad it can get? Take a look at Detroit.

How do you fix it? Easier. First step is done, put hiring requirements back to where they were. Second step, bad cops you catch you nail to the ground as in this case. Lastly, like other services you'll never get rid of what people call the "old boys club."

Cops help cops generally, but if you cross the line, you'll get your ass nailed to the floor. Minor stuff, speeding, etc, circumstances same as anyone else. If the person is an asshole, they'll be having a nice ticket. Big stuff, you bury their ass(and yes I do know cops who've given the chief of police tickets and now are on the shittiest beats). Let me finish up by saying, you can whine over it all you want. But the first person you'll end up calling when you're in trouble is the police.

And I thought Canadians were apathetic about getting things done. If you don't like how the police are, go join a freaking service and work your way through it, become the chief and change it.

^ Kinda why I'm not apathetic to religious folk.

Not one person to speak up and support him, even when he's obviously emotional? God, usually i'm fairly apathetic to religious folk and their stupidity, but this has disgusted me.

I really feel for that guy