In reply to this comment by Buck:
>> ^ulysses1904:

Are there any studies you can cite documenting the "issue of the incredable (sic) rise in police violence"?
>> ^Buck:
Then there's the issue of the incredable rise in police violence too.



Ya if you haven't seen the rise first hand it's hard to show. A canadian cop was fired recently over a taser incident where he killed someone....in youtube search police shootings. I saw one where the perp was shot IN THE BACK as he ran. Another where a cop's pistol went off accidently and he shot a kid in the head (ok that might have been an accident) Also start looking at MAINSTREAM media, there's lots there on the police state. Also look up the G20 riots in Toronto.
I have nothing to cite because it's happening all around us daily.



http://videosift.com/video/MSNBC-Analyses-Police-Assault-On-Occupy-Wall-St-Protester?loadcomm=1#comment-1305375

Just noticed your postes wern't private, thought I'd post my reply.

LOL I concede I am an ape!

This is long but addresses many of your questions I think. Also your assumption on my thinking was correct...can't remember what it was but I agree.

now on to the LONG post.

A) Willpower while it has limitations, it is not Limited to a finite value. Just ask any smoker who has quit. Or, a recovering alcoholic.

B) Repeat criminals do not appear to have willpower issues, they make conscious decisions to defy the law, and ether justify it to themselves or simply have contempt for the law. Some may feel the law is wrong or simply does not apply to them.

C) If all it took for a human being to lose their humanity, self respect, morality and honor was to be at the losing end of life why have we not seen a violent uprising of the homeless and downtrodden. The addicts who HAVE lost everything and wander the streets trying to survive would therefore be the most justified to go on a rampage would they not?

D) As for American laws relating to firearms, I am a Canadian and therefore will not argue those laws, as I have little knowledge in that area.
As for Canada, the process of licensing requires a full background check, questioning of witnesses towards your character and ultimately is up to the discression of the license issuer, as I mentioned before.

Are there flaws? Yes. But that is a result of the system. Ideally the system would prevent or remove firearms from any individual before violence occurs. However in order for that system to function flawlessly one must live in a system similar to Communist Russia during Stalins reign. Where every action or spoken word is monitored and reported to the government, by agents, or even by family.

Canadian restrictions to licensing are as stringent as the LAW curently allows them to be without infringing ( too much) on an individual's rights.

E) A piece of plastic does not guarantee the holder to be law abiding. However, the process involved to acquire said item does involve scrutiny. And the desire to legally go through that process as opposed to acquiring firearms illegally and with much less effort does say something towards the individuals intentions.

F) Firearms training and safety cources do indeed instill responsibility, confidence in the use, and the safe possession of firearms. Personally I believe everyone eligible should be trained in the safe responsible use of firearms. Whether they choose to own or not. ( we have sex Ed in school, why not gun Ed )

G) As for F*** heads, they will always be F**** heads. One purpose of licensing is to prevent them from acquiring firearms legaly. Thankfully most of humanity does not fit into this category. ( however they do seem to be breeding at an alarming rate)

H) As for the Katana, not only was it a weapon, it was a symbol of honor for samurai and was passed down through generations with a reverence bordering on a relic. Spend time and look up the 7 virtues of the Bushido code.

Regarding Nukes, while their application is abhorrent to any rational human, think about how many were actually used for their intended purpose. TWO!, out of how many thousands. And both were released by human hands. Possession does not equate to application.

I) Yes firearms were designed for military use, but for us to cover everything we use in our lives that started out or were improved by the military (essentially to make it easier to kill the enemy) would require more effort and space than is practical in an Internet disscussion.

J) The legitimate use of firearms.
The big Taboo, Killing:
The military uses firearms, and other tools to kill the enemy. This enemy is defined by the state who are elected officials. I won't go into depth as to why, as that is best served by a political debate. Suffice it to say that guns could be perceived to actually combat evil.

Hunting: another form of killing, however for most, the game is hunted as a food source. The only distinction I make between wild game, and beef in the store is who does the killing ( and I could use a uphenism for the word kill, but let's call a a spade a spade )(also keep in mind hunters are the leaders in protecting the ecology, ducks unlimmited was and is a group of hunters)

Defense: when another human desires you harm what recourse do you have? You can try to run, try to hide, hope you don't get caught. Call the athorities (provided it is not them who desire you harm) and hope they arrive in time, or fight back. Should you fight back, hopefully you are more powerfull than your attacker, or that they do not have a weapon of some kind.

Simply the presence of a firearm in a potential victims hands, can dissuade an nefarious individual from attempting an attack. Should that fail, and you need to shoot, I would much rather the criminal be injured or killed than myself or a loved one.

Sporting use: primarily enjoyment, competitions, black powder heritage days and cowboy action shoots promote an awareness of history and promote thought on how life was in days gone by.

Bonding: the passing of knowledge between two individuals engaged in an activity both find enjoyable. In the case of parent/child, or mentor/student, the teaching of the responsibilities of firearm use and the skills involved is important. If more people knew how to safely handle/store firearms, accidental deaths would be greatly reduced.


In closing, while I applaud the idealistic and utopic view that any form of killing is wrong and can/should be prevented, this is simply not the way life works.

Trying to persuade others to view the world as you do is the essence of debating, however, forcing your ideals upon another human being is the essence of tyranny. Irregardless of how honorable the intentions

So if you read all that I thank you! I'm prepared to say we agree to dissagree and leave it at that but I'm open to more dialog if you wish.

I wish you lived in my area so I could take you to the range to see first hand what it's all about.

Big Ape signing off

Happy anniversary! Today marks year number 3 since you first became a Sifter and the community is better for having you. Thanks for your contributions!

In reply to this comment by Buck:
In reply to this comment by Yogi:
Did they look at ANY other numbers or criteria? None of this would be good enough for a College Freshman paper, it's pathetic.



Have a look at the harvard study I just posted to the comments of that video see if it's better than a college freshman paper.


DURRRRRR DURRRRRRR DURRRRRRRR.

Yes I'm a vegetarian.

I haven't attacked anyone [stabbed my family] yet because I haven't reached that emotional state yet. Hopefully, I'll never be put in that state.

But if I were driven to harm another person, assault with a firearm would be one of the most deadly ways to do so.

My implication is that:
While YOU may be very responsible and level-headed because of your view that state sanctioned gun ownership is a privilege. [I think that's what you think]

All these Nascar loving, mud-truck drivin', shotgun toting patriot gun-nuts in "The America", with respect for the military and authority and bureaucratic laws, believe that gun ownership is a right.

They might go thru the proper channels to obtain a license.
But what does that matter if the majority of owners have no discipline.

They just buy a gun to shoot shit.
Not prepared when they accidentally murder a person while trying to intimidate him or her.
Not prepared when their child gets a hold of it and accidentally kills a sibling or a friend.

Lastly. Are a Homo Sapien? Cause if you are.. you're an ape.
In reply to this comment by Buck:
I'll respond better when I'm home but can you answer these two questions for me?

Are you a vegetarian?

And, what is stopping you from stabbing your family to death?

And while I've been called an ape and a criminal I continue to try and be polite. I do thank you for your dialog, It seems to be an emotionally charged topic for you. I also don't think we'll ever see eye to eye; but isn't it better for opposing thoughts and ideas to be talked about, than have one or both party's in ignorance of the other?

I do agree Arizona's requirements are weak, in Canada we have to have a psych test and have our spouses and ex girlfriends all contacted as well as have no criminal record and we need references as well to be approved for a license.

I'll respond to your recent post tonight or later. But again thanks for the dialog.

But there's not a huge difference.
Criminals know right from wrong, they just have issues controlling their impulses.

Will power is a limited thing. Once you use it up, impulses take over.
The only difference is. You have a greater reserve of will power to draw from.

If your wife and son died, your house and all your money were taken, and now you've got an officer in your face threatening you..

When you're reduced to the same impulsive state as a criminal.
You think your training and licensing are going to stop you from snapping? O_o?

Not everyone respects guns or their inherent danger as much as you.

So in a state like Arizona, where all it takes to legally own a gun is:
1.being of age 2. not being considered a "prohibited possessor"

Do you sincerely feel those requirements are enough to instill "a greater respect for the 'capabilities' of, and the 'consequences' resulting from irresponsible use of guns." in everyone?

No, of course not.

So obtaining and cherishing (wtf?) a gun legally doesn't mean shit. The owner can still be a fuckhead.

Lastly, WTF?! Guns aren't inherently violent? They're just tools?!

In the same way a katana or a nuclear bomb aren't inherently violent? Right?
They're just tools.

Tools meant for MURDERING people!

Guns, swords and bombs weren't invented for sport.
They were invented to make killing easier.

So tell me Buck. Besides practicing murdering things from a distance,actually murdering things from a distance and signaling the start of a foot race..

Can you list the oh-so-many uses of a gun/guns?

I'm saying that being a "Criminal" is just a label. Fundamentally, there's no difference between you and a "criminal".
You're both homo sapiens with the same amount of potential to commit evil deeds.

You're trying to claim you're more righteous just cause you attended a gun safety course and obtain a gun legally.

You're just an ape. You could go batshit crazy for who knows what reason, take your guns and murder your whole family.

Guns are inherently violent things. They were invented to murder other humans. Stop acting like licenses or paper targets negate that.

Filling out paperwork and paying a fee.. does not make you any more sane or rational.

George Zimmerman had a concealed carry permit. Then he murdered a kid.

Owning a gun, increases the likelihood of violence.
Whether the violent act you commit is deemed legal or illegal/a crime is something for a bureaucracy to determine after someone is already dead.

Btw, if your hobby is simply target practice.. why do you need a deadly weapon to enjoy it.

Airsoft, paintball and pellets guns could all fulfill that need to shoot shit.

In reply to this comment by Buck:
Hi, I was wondering if you would indulge me in some conversation about you downvoting this comment:

If you have a licence, owning a gun does not make you more likely to commit a crime.



Do you disagree that someone who goes through the invasive (in Canada) process to get a legal licence for firearms and follows the law will somehow be turned evil by a firearm?

I work with people with Autism for a living, I love my family, friends, country etc. I also love going to the range to shoot paper targets.

Do you think I should not be allowed the freedom to pursue my legal (and fun) hobby?

Thanks for any response

Happy anniversary! Today marks year number 2 since you first became a Sifter and the community is better for having you. Thanks for your contributions!

Congratulations! Your comment has just received enough votes from the community to earn you 1 Power Point. Thank you for your quality contribution to VideoSift.

http://videosift.com/video/Thank-Heaven-For-Little-Girls I couldn't help myself
In reply to this comment by Buck:
Thank heaven! (click the link)

Happy anniversary! Today marks year number 1 since you first became a Sifter and the community is better for having you. Thanks for your contributions!

Congrats on your first sifted video...(and getting the "P" off your name)!