A few years ago I, quite literally, thanked my parents for the few spankings they gave me as a child. Hearing my mother crying, as she gave me the only spanking she ever gave, really struck home the idea that they did it for my benefit, not theirs, and that it truly did hurt them more than it hurt me. In hindsight I am certain that those few spankings helped me to see that my actions affected other people and had real consequences that I would have to face.

That said, this is fucking sick.

I am so glad to see these parents being locked away. What they did wasn't discipline, it was abuse and torture.

If hell existed there would be a special place there for them to spend eternity.

There's a line between discipline and abuse, it's sad when people can't see the difference.

"Spare the rod, spoil the child" isn't actually in the Bible - it comes from a poem by Samuel Butler.

True, but the Bible does have its say on the matter:

Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."
Prov 19:18: "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."
Prov 22:15: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
Prov 23:13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."
Prov 23:14: "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (Shoel)."
Prov 29:15: "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.">> ^Morganth:

"Spare the rod, spoil the child" isn't actually in the Bible - it comes from a poem by Samuel Butler.

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." -Steven Weinberg

>> ^RadHazG:

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." -Steven Weinberg


I had not heard this one Rad. Save.

*length=8:12

The duration of this video has been updated from 6:20 to 8:12 - length declared by xxovercastxx.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'biblical punishment, to train up a child, torture, murder, micheal pearl' to 'biblical punishment, to train up a child, torture, murder, michael pearl' - edited by xxovercastxx

>> ^RadHazG:

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." -Steven Weinberg


I'm an atheist and I personally find it one of the most uninformed and absurd quotes ever. Good people do bad things for lots of reasons besides religion (see for example the results of the Stanford Prison experiment and the Milgram experiment). Also, a great many "evil" people (prison inmates for instance) find religion and turn their lives around--essentially allowing any religious teacher to turn the quote on its head and claim that "for evil people to do good things, it takes religion."

I would argue that both those experiments dealt primarily with abuse of authority and on that level there is no greater chance of generating that than religion. Almost all religions (the Great Three especially so) essentially give its members the grandest feeling of authority of all, the idea that they are all infinitely correct and will live forever because of it, while every other fool will burn for all eternity. Giving people authority who are unable to deal with it properly and thus abuse it is the danger here, and religions give that feeling of authority to a hell of a lot more people than a few prison guards. Also as anyone who has actually read the bible knows, it is anything BUT a "good book", and all those prison conversions are primarily just given the good bits that make them feel better and want to change. They have to *want* to change first though, and as long as they have that desire, any properly presented idea will appeal to them. It just so happens that as a rule the first and most readily available idea given is religion. Should any of those converts actually read that precious new book of theirs comprehensively, I should be very afraid to meet them in person.

The quote does make a fair amount of generalization, but the heart of it is true barring unusual circumstances.

I wouldn't let religious people adopt a child.

>> ^hpqp:

True, but the Bible does have its say on the matter:
Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."
Prov 19:18: "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."
Prov 22:15: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
Prov 23:13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."
Prov 23:14: "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (Shoel)."
Prov 29:15: "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.">> ^Morganth:
"Spare the rod, spoil the child" isn't actually in the Bible - it comes from a poem by Samuel Butler.



So we agree it (the bible) is not necessarily saying to go overboard on your child...and the concept of rod means different things to different people (And meant something entirely different 2K years ago.) I don't spare the rod on my children, but I have never once abused them. I have used a stern voice that hurt their feelings, a rare spank on their rump, and the dreaded time out. Of course the times I hug and tell them how great they are vastly outweighs the number of disciplines...

And I like how you named this post, "Spare the rod...or spoil the child." The "or" is what notes the tolerance you are developing towards religion--as though religion is not particularly responsible for this child's death...but sick, fucked up parents are to blame. Considering there are about 62 thousand cases of child abuse in Russia every year, I would agree with you.

You should read A Boy Called It...very heartrending...

>> ^RadHazG:

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." -Steven Weinberg


No... The affront to human dignity is humanity. We are a species of sick fucks and the fact that we don't admit it makes us sicker. We blame "concepts" as our faults--as if religion is the insult to human dignity...hard to say that when it is a naturally occurring concept, i.e., ingrained in the human code (One of the five Universals. Something we must "unlearn" in order to break away from.) Always something else's fault... never ours. If it was ours we'd have to work hard to fix it. Reminds me of why America is in decline right now...

Here, Steven Weinberg is an idiot. I appreciate Alan Watts much better...

@kulpims
I wouldn't let anyone adopt a child...let alone a religious person.

Either this comment is missing the sarcasm box tick or you seriously missed the point, as well as misread the title.

>> ^Lawdeedaw:

>> ^hpqp:
True, but the Bible does have its say on the matter:
Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."
Prov 19:18: "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."
Prov 22:15: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
Prov 23:13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."
Prov 23:14: "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (Shoel)."
Prov 29:15: "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.">> ^Morganth:
"Spare the rod, spoil the child" isn't actually in the Bible - it comes from a poem by Samuel Butler.


So we agree it (the bible) is not necessarily saying to go overboard on your child...and the concept of rod means different things to different people (And meant something entirely different 2K years ago.) I don't spare the rod on my children, but I have never once abused them. I have used a stern voice that hurt their feelings, a rare spank on their rump, and the dreaded time out. Of course the times I hug and tell them how great they are vastly outweighs the number of disciplines...
And I like how you named this post, "Spare the rod...or spoil the child." The "or" is what notes the tolerance you are developing towards religion--as though religion is not particularly responsible for this child's death...but sick, fucked up parents are to blame. Considering there are about 62 thousand cases of child abuse in Russia every year, I would agree with you.
You should read A Boy Called It...very heartrending...

Good people don't do evil things, regardless of whether they are religious or atheistic.

@Lawdeedaw said: "And I like how you named this post, "Spare the rod...or spoil the child." The "or" is what notes the tolerance you are developing towards religion--as though religion is not particularly responsible for this child's death..."

I didn't think I'd have to spell this out, but...
You clearly misread the title, which is: ""Spare the rod"... or murder your daughter in God's name"

It is a play on the Bible verses that Samuel Butler condenses in his epigram, which suggests that if you don't discipline (with beatings) your kid it will grow up spoiled. My title argues that it is preferable to "spare the rod", i.e. go against the Bible's teachings.

Speaking of the Bible, doesn't it also say parents should kill their kids if they diss them (Lev.20:9/Deut.21:18-21)? And doesn't even el Jeebs himself recall this commandment when accusing the Pharisees of not following the law (Mt.15:4/Mk.7:9-13)?

edit: and yes, I do think religion is responsible for this child's death. It is religion that gave birth to Psycho Joy Ministries, and which let their child-abuse manual become popular instead of shut down.

edit 2: for more examples of widescale, institutionalised, Christian-run abuse of children, with the help of the gvt: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/08/17/tough-love-thuggery-under-jesus-loving-hands/


I have no tolerance for the indoctrination and perpetuation of lies, fear and superstition. I have no tolerance for religion( =/= religious people).