Very good discussion.. each of their theories/observations support each other in some ways and it seems that ultimately the root cause of our delimma is the fiat currency system being pushed to it's limits. There are so many dynamics to this problem as they've also pointed out too.

I was just about to say "I wonder what Constitutional_Patriot would say about this" lol. Now we just need to hear from blankfist. I really like this argument and they should of gotten their own hour to talk it out. Both sides have points and I like how it does show (as CP put it) the many dynamics of this problem. Any politician who dumbs it down and points a finger (like both running for president) obviously doesnt truly understand the complexities of this incredibly serious problem. Sorry America there is no quick fix here, there is no one person to blame, so taking it out on Bush wont save you now. We are in this for the long hall.

Relaxed regulation across the board
Removal of oversight on banks and investment firms
Irresponsible spending
Irresponsible loaning to the public
Irresponsible loans from the public
Incentive to take risk
Bailouts
Printing money en` mass
Dumping interest rates to the floor
Allowing speculators to trade on prices in advance
Threatening oil nations (with the reaction of changing their trade currency to euro).

etc...etc...etc...the list gos on.

What these two talked about is just the tip of the iceberg, both equally as right in their arguments as the other.

The end of the day, it falls on one man who has the power to restore order to the fiat system, which works fine provided it has the right checks and balances in place....is the Pres.

Without his word to remove those checks, people couldn't get loans from banks that they could never pay back, and banks couldn't be allowed to give them.

Companies wouldn't be taking massive risks in investments without the incentive to do so (guaranteed bailout).

Threats against major oil traders only serves to hurt the currency further when Iran / Kuwait switched to the Euro as punishment for the aggression against the Arab league.

Closing loopholes and tightening up regulation that was put in place SPECIFICALLY AS A RESULT OF THE GREAT DEPRESSION TO PREVENT ANOTHER LIKE IT FROM TAKING PLACE, and many many other controls that have been removed since bush took office, are all on his doorstep. He has the ultimate power of veto, and directing his party on how to vote in the house and senate.

Printing money is a symptom of the above, albeit a bad reaction to try to fix the problem caused by the aforementioned...the fact of the matter is, the people, the banks, the investment firms, the corporations, the international trading partners, the SEC, everything....this entire fucking mess, is a direct result of bush's deregulation, foreign and economic policies.

This is one issue where blame can and SHOULD be placed on one person, its his watch, his office, his executive decision at the end of the day that sets the environment that capitalists around the world play in, he made this mess, and the GOP know it...its why you haven't heard shit from him since end of july / start of august. Anything to avoid the base from catching on and realising that it was the republicans that fucked this up...its election season people, we got a party to run.

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Awarding littledragon_79 with one star point for fixing this video's dead embed code.

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Invocations (dead) cannot be called by phyman because phyman is not privileged - sorry.