What? Olbermann doesn't like Fox??

I'm going to have to completely reshape my worldview now.

>> ^ShakaUVM:
What? Olbermann doesn't like Fox??
I'm going to have to completely reshape my worldview now.


That shouldn't take long.

Since when do neocons think the president represents all Americans? John R Bolton was quite certain that Bush needed to represent those who put him in power (the far right) before he represented the rest of the country.

>>Since when do neocons think the president represents all Americans?

The truth that nobody wants you to know - in the actual America, there really aren't any neocons.

Big government conservatives? Honestly, how many of those are there?

Conservatives that liked President Bush did so despite his neo-conness, not because of it. It just amuses me when people make statements like that, as if there was this tremendous group of "neocons" out there in modern society.

^I think it's used as a general term for the conservatives who give reasonable conservatives a bad name.

However, conservatives generally didn't object to the election of Bush, to the invasion of Iraq (indeed, they felt even questioning it was beyond the pale), to McCain joking about bombing Iran, to enhanced interrogation/torture, or to the GOP's general anti-science attitude (fruit flies, honey bees, etc.), so it doesn't seem reasonable to say conservatives didn't support these things and it was only Bush's fault. Most conservatives are neocons under that definition.

>> ^ShakaUVM:
Conservatives that liked President Bush did so despite his neo-conness, not because of it. It just amuses me when people make statements like that, as if there was this tremendous group of "neocons" out there in modern society.

That's the sad truth of the matter.

There weren't a "tremendous group" of self-named Neocons out in society.

There was a small number who had ensconced themselves into the Bush administration, and by way of that, into Rumsfeld's Pentagon.

Doug Feith was one of them. I believe he headed "The Office of Special Plans" which was responsible for one thing: to coerce the government and the media into supporting an invasion of Iraq.

>> ^chilaxe:
However, conservatives generally didn't object to the election of Bush, to the invasion of Iraq (indeed, they felt even questioning it was beyond the pale), to McCain joking about bombing Iran, to enhanced interrogation/torture, or to the GOP's general anti-science attitude (fruit flies, honey bees, etc.), so it doesn't seem reasonable to say conservatives didn't support these things and it was only Bush's fault. Most conservatives are neocons under that definition.


Uh, no. A neocon is a conservative on some topics (say, taxes) who believes in big government. It has nothing to do with anti-science (which is an embarassment to me) or the other topics, I guess, beyond the fact that normal conservatives agree with neo-cons on some of the topics.

Part of the problem is that our society is so highly polarized into an us-and-them mentality that people think that if you agree with President Bush on one topic, you do/should agree with him on all topics. And to a certain extent it's true - a lot of conservative senators voted for Bush's stimulus bill, but voted against Obama's (when they suddenly rediscovered they were for small government, because Bush was gone).

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