Ohhhh, this is good, are there more videos like this in a series? It's funny how we can become so distracted by everyday things we forget to meditate and deepen our inner thoughts. Great post!

I know a lot of C.S. Lewis fans, my brother being one of them, but I do have a problem with "blind faith" and I also have a problem with labeling "skepticism" and "reality" as things that only fools would invest themselves in.

I ultimately think that the Church had, and has, much more to do with controlling people than saving their souls.

It's a very familiar recipe: keep people fearful and ignorant, then reap your profits.

spoken like a true skeptic.

I'm fasnicated by this tactic of blostering faith against attacks from reason by making the subject paranoid of imaginary beings who are out to get him/her. I did most of my growing up in India where this tactic was artfully employed under the concept of 'Maya' which suggests that everything we experience is an elaborate illusion meant to keep us trapped in an endless cycle of life and death. As a young adult it was hard to overcome this form of paranoid thinking that was beaten into me as a child and I think it still clouds some of my subconsicious instincts.

One of many reasons why I think there is no Wormwood like creature out to get me is the same reason why I think trees make noise when they fall with no one around: because the universe does not revolve around me or around the human race for that matter. We seem to be predisposed to think otherwise but everything we have learnt about the universe suggests that it is amoral and apathetic to all of existance.

One of my favorite quotes on this subject is from Hunster S. Thompson:
"What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole life-style that he helped to create ... a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old-mystic fallacy of the Acid Culture: the desperate assumption that somebody — or at least some force — is tending that light at the end of the tunnel."

I don't remember anyone saying the universe revolves around a person. The point is that oftentimes such thoughts we have of a divine or higher power are overshadowed by everyday distractions. How often do we take time out of our day to contemplate our own existence?

It's easy to dismiss the thought, it's much harder to listen to your soul whisper truth to you. How do I know there is such a thing as a soul? Because when you find the moment to ask yourself in the sanctuary of silence you feel the swelling of truth in you that there is more to you then the husk of flesh and blood. Something that transcends the body.

I can't prove that to anyone, it's something everyone needs to prove to themselves.

I doubt the point of screwtape letters is to encourage a sincere reflection on the question of existance. It might tigger that form of reflection in some individuals but in most individuals it will reinforce the fear of hell, eternal damnation, temptation of things deemed sinful in Christian theology, etc (which is what I suspect it was designed to do).

While these letters don't explicitly claim that the universe revolves around you, the suggestion that god-like creatures are engaged in an eternal battle over the possession your soul is certainly an exploitation of our tendency to imagine ourselves at the center of the universe. On a similar vein, you must certainly remember the how long it took the church to come to grips with the fact that Sun does not revolve around the Earth.

If you are looking for sources of transcendence in your life why not rely on the large supply of non-exploitative sources out there. I find travelling, music, arts, literature, science just as capable of inducing transcendence as religion and without all that heavy baggage that comes with religion.

I also don't understand why feelings of transendence are often considered as proof of the existance of a soul. Transendent experience is a common human phenomenon which can be induced in most subjects with remarkable ease:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
http://www.videosift.com/video/Can-Out-of-Body-Experiences-be-Recreated1
Not to mention transcendence has also been avaliable in pill form for over 50 years now. 200 micrograms of lsd will get your "soul" talking so loudly your neighbors will be banging down your door asking it to shut up.

Alright come back and debate your point when you've actually read The Screwtape Letters. And when you refer to "the church" which one are you referring too. And why do you feel a need to associate religious beliefs with a church?

Most churches are as unique as the individuals who organize them. In fact you can find conflicting doctrines taught between diocese of the Catholic church.

I never offered my feelings of possessing a soul as proof. It is proof enough to me, and me alone. It's was never meant to prove something to you. I can't prove anything to anyone, such proof is received in the minds and hearts of individuals and not an autonomous collective.

"Alright come back and debate your point when you've actually read The Screwtape Letters."

Why? Is the piece recited in the video not representative of the book? If indeed that is the case then my criticisms still apply to this particular letter which in my opinion is quite exploitative.

"And when you refer to "the church" which one are you referring too. "

When people refer to "the church" they are usually talking about The Roman Catholic Church with it being the largest christian church and all. I thought this would be evident as I was refering to the famous controversy involving the catholic church's insistance on a geocentric model of the universe (i.e., earth in the center) which conrtibuted to the murder of Bruno, the life imprisonment of Galileo and, to the rather embarrassing recantation of the doctrine in 1992 by Pope John Paul II.

"And why do you feel a need to associate religious beliefs with a church?"

I was using the church as an example of a religious institution exploiting/reinforcing certain fallacies common to human thinking; in this case the fallacy being an egocentric model of the universe. That is not to say such exploitation is unique to christanity (I offered hinduism as my other example) or to religious institutions for that matter.

"I never offered my feelings of possessing a soul as proof."

I believe you said something along the lines of: "How do I know there is such a thing as a soul? because..."
I realize that this is a "personal" proof that you have used to convince yourself of your soul and if I get the gist of your proof it seems to go along the lines of "I have these incredibly strong transcendent feelings which must originate from a non-material source like the soul." My examples were meant to illustrate the rather physical/chemical sources of these transcendent feelings. When I was kid I used to think I was special because I had these inexplicable experiences which I now know to be deja vus. It's quite likely you are making a similar mistake.

It's hard to understand the subject matter if you haven't read anything on the subject. This video only covers one of the letters. Hardly a reason to judge a whole book by.

Basing an argument off one church that seems to be all encompassing for examples is a bit naive and harsh to group other religions,or organizations along with it.

Not all religions exploit people. People exploit people, sadly it's done in the name of the church that person uses as a tool. The organization of a church does not necessarily make it an organization for evil intents.

Regardless, my experiences are my own and you cannot understand them or explain them, or dismiss them. They are my own and in retrospect even offering them as a point of debate was an error on my part. I simply use it to show the basis of my faith. That is something that you will never understand. Nor would anyone other then myself.

I'm curious what is the basis of your faith pro?

" It's hard to understand the subject matter if you haven't read anything on the subject. This video only covers one of the letters. Hardly a reason to judge a whole book by."

Like I said my criticisms still apply to this particular letter. It exploits the basest fears that we are all susceptible to. At some point I plan to read this book as it seems to be a creative take on the age old problem of proselytizing. If the reading changes my mind on the tactics employed by Mr. Lewis you will be the first to know.

"Basing an argument off one church that seems to be all encompassing for examples is a bit naive and harsh to group other religions,or organizations along with it."

The example wasn't meant to be as sweeping as you seem to suggest. At the same time, let's not forget the "one church" we are talking about here encompasses around 50% of the Christians today and is the largest organized body of any world religion:
(source) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church
We are also talking about an easy to prove concept like Heliocentrism which the church took 300 hundred years to come to grips with in the face of overwhelming evidence. This is also a church that now claims that "other denominations not true churches."
(source) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19692094/
Surely the actions of a church of such prominence is partly indicative of the current state of religious affairs.


"Not all religions exploit people. People exploit people, sadly it's done in the name of the church that person uses as a tool. The organization of a church does not necessarily make it an organization for evil intents."

People exploit people. Agreed. But so do religions. Institutions have to be judged on the principles they subscribe too. If a religion subscribes to the concept of eternal damnation then in my opinion it is exploitative. It is human tendency to exploit others. A decent institution tries to safe guard its member from such exploitation by subscribing to principles that lead to fair play in general. Not that the scientific institution is free of its foibles but there is a reason why science is able to sustain (even celebrate) major blows to its most cherished beliefs even though scientists can be just as flawed a people as the religious. I imagine if science subscribed to the religious principles of dogma, faith, and revelation then Gödel would have been crucified for his incompleteness theorem; or at the very least denied tenure which I'm told hurts worse than a crucifixion.

"I'm curious what is the basis of your faith pro?"

Not exactly sure what this question means. I was raised in a hindu family which lead to a moderately religious outlook on life until early adolescence. I guess I have grown to become what you might call a tooth-fairy agnostic.

I agree that damnation can be a scary proposition, mostly derived from the negative connotations given to it. But there should be no need for those who don't believe in a heaven or hell to fear it. If you think about the word damned it simply means to stop ones progress. To block ones path. Damnation is to block one from progressing to a higher state.

A man who fears God is not one who understands the teachings he gave us through his prophets. I feel the religious man should honor and respect God but to be saved only by cowering in fear of eternal damnation is inconsistent with the teachings of prophets who profess to be called of God.

I agree that there are many church's that twist and strain for doctrine to impress and "unholy" will on people. History has shown us that much.

I guess what I'm trying to say is there is a big difference in blind faith. as opposed to true faith. Blind faith is never questioned and rarely opposed. True faith stems from understanding the principals behind the doctrine.

For instance, why do we not steal? Is it because we were told not to? Is it because we feel bad? Is it because we fear being damned?

An individual could contemplate this for hours. But to truly understand the doctrine one might look further to say; I do not steal because of the distress and damage it causes to others. God loves all people and by stealing I am not showing love.

Motivation can come from many different sources. I've often been curious as to the motivation of many people to try and tare down my beliefs are? I am very happy with worshiping God the way I do. I understand why we follow the commandments he's given through prophets. I can see the motivation of preachers to try and convert souls, wither it be of sincere concern for their welfare or for the greed of their pocketbooks.

I've asked myself. What is the motivation for those who are atheist? Do they feel for the welfare of my soul? Do they feel so strongly in what they believe that they want me to feel as satisfied with the belief as they do?

I question my faith and my beliefs, that is how they grow strong. Much like scientists. Some rejoice in finding, what was a substantial law in science, to be false. Others dismiss it as bogus and lacking substance.

*books

Adding video to channels (Books) - requested by kronosposeidon.

*promote

Invocations (promote) cannot be called by Doc_M because Doc_M is not privileged - sorry.