>> ^alien_concept:

Why is "arguing" on the internet any less valid than arguing in any other situation. Yogi, you've picked that up from somewhere and repeating it over and over as some kind of tool to discredit what's being said that you don't agree with. Poor.


I didn't mean to put that spin on it being less valid except that the presentation of evidence is usually less valid. Look what I got in return for a request for citations, a link to a website that looks like it's all about hating the CoS. Hardly what I'd call credible.

>> ^bcglorf:

Is there any evidence they've killed anyone? Is there any evidence they're about to?
Yes and Yes.
I've never felt threatened by Scientology or by any Scientologists and I really don't think it's in their interest in threatening me if I just leave them alone so that's what I'm going to do.
That's exactly what the compliant citizen's of virtually every dictatorship in the world tell themselves as well. If I just leave them alone, they won't threaten me. Historically that only holds true until your luck runs out, or more frequently the luck of someone you care about.
Stop defending this damaging cult by implying that "it isn't that bad", or that it's no worse than your run of the mill local church. Those are the kinds of lies that help this cult draw in more victims, and no matter how small you consider the cult to be in the scale of global problems, it's still better to fight the problems we face rather than contributing to them by refusing to recognize them as such.


When I asked for evidence I wasn't asking for a link to some website. That's not proof of anything...just go to wikipedia if you want examples of how that's not proof. A little background...I study genocides and as a consequence dictatorships...CoS simply isn't even close to coming to power in this country and imposing their will on us. It's just something I'm concerned with while I study actual genocides and actual torment of people making the clothes that you're wearing right now. That's not a concern for you yet some people...voluntarily choosing to not see their families (if it was forced you could call the cops) isn't a concern for me when placed against the backdrop of actual horror. This is made up horror and rage, I'm not interested.

>> ^Yogi:
Like I said in the preview of this Documentary, what has Scientology done that we should care about? I see here some people not seeing their relatives through...choices of their own. And a woman committing suicide...again a choice of her own. Really I can't find any proof that Scientology is responsible for any deaths whatsoever. So why should I care? Let them worship whatever they want with their stupid "All psychiatrists are evil" nonsense, it doesn't matter. Now back to my Sammich.


It appears to all who are reading your post that you have not had any direct contact with someone who has been affected by any cult (let alone scientology), and therefore do not care in the slightest. Having read your replies to the responses that informed you of entirely valid answers to your original question I can see that you prefer to remain ignorant. That's fine by me matey, it's your choice to remain ignorant!

I used to think the ICOC was one of the worst cults because of their tactics of disconnection (similar to the disconnection practices of Scientology and is exercised early on so that the only people a victim is in contact with are also members of the cult thereby ensuring that complete social disconnection can be enforced should the victim ever become non-compliant) and their requirement of regular tithe payments once they've successfully cut you off from people who aren't members of the cult. These last few years the practices of Scientology make the ICOC look reasonable in contrast.

If you're unwilling to acknowledge that what scientology has been doing is extremely damaging to individuals and much more so than accepted religions such as Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, and so on then you are deliberately shielding yourself from the media. Wait, that's what scientologists do isn't it? Better be careful there mate, you wouldn't want to be mistaken for a scientologist!

Within the English language cult is NOT a synonym for religion. From a strictly dictionary definition, the difference is largely the number of adherents. In common usage the difference is also a distinctly more negative or derogatory connotation to cult as well.

I'm making the obvious point that the difference between the church of Scientology and the local church run soup kitchen goes deeper than semantics. What ever your opinion of most religions today, or religion in general, Scientology stands as more sinister than most, and by a large margin. From the secrecy it uses to hide it's beliefs to it's aggressive policy of hate and destroy your enemies it stands out as more vile than most other religions and cults around.

If you think other religions need to be bashed too, that's your business. I will however object to you elevating one of the worst(Scientology) by saying it's no worse than all the others. You aren't just smearing religion with that kind of comment. You are at the same time elevating the status of Scientology to that of other mainstream religions, no matter how low you may consider that bar to be.

In reply to this comment by GenjiKilpatrick:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult

Any group whose main commonality is adherence to cultural laws based on superstitious/ supernatural/metaphysical beliefs is part of a cult.

Tho like Gwiz said, the level of sanity amongst and within groups varies.

In reply to this comment by bcglorf:
>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

wait. what religion isn't a cult?


Wait, are you really content to just say they are all 'equal'?

So, you don't see any utility in distinguishing between Koresh's Waco sect and Hindu's following in the approximate example of Ghandi?

I'm afraid you might find that such a ludicrously oversimplified world view is... inaccurate.

Actually, @Yogi was fairly calm and collected in all his statements, even after @GenjiKilpatrick called him a "sick fuck" and said he was worse than an animal abuser.

And you say yogi is flailing and frothing like a toddler?

I don't entirely agree with his viewpoint, though he has some valid points, but he's not the one who needs a timeout.

>> ^Gallowflak:

Puerile, nonsensical and as absurd as I've ever seen. To dismiss anti-Scientology sentiment as inhabiting the same intellectual ground as 9/11 conspiracies is fucking inane. To deride GenjiKilpatrick as being ineffectual in the world and contributing nothing, on the basis of no evidence whatsoever - and simply because you disagree with his opposition to the CoS - is despicable. I don't understand what's wrong with you. Can nobody debate or discuss ideas anymore, without restorting to flailing and frothing like a toddler?

>> ^Gallowflak:

Puerile, nonsensical and as absurd as I've ever seen. To dismiss anti-Scientology sentiment as inhabiting the same intellectual ground as 9/11 conspiracies is fucking inane. To deride GenjiKilpatrick as being ineffectual in the world and contributing nothing, on the basis of no evidence whatsoever - and simply because you disagree with his opposition to the CoS - is despicable. I don't understand what's wrong with you. Can nobody debate or discuss ideas anymore, without restorting to flailing and frothing like a toddler?
As an anecdote, my wife participated in a Scientology protest a few years ago. For two weeks straight she was stalked home by a Scientology goon who had memorized her schedule and route from work. It happens to more people than I can count. I don't think Scientology could ever be legitimately described as a non-issue.


You call what I did there flailing and frothing like a toddler? Really am I completely off the deep end saying that this internet argument won't amount to anything? That defeating CoS which you won't succeed in doing will be a boon to everyones existence? I'm not out of line here, this isn't an argument, it's me saying people who believe that CoS is a terrible scourge and deserves everyones attention and must be stopped is wrong. You're wrong if you think that we have to worry about CoS over almost ANY major issue in this country. People are actually dying for things we can fix easily and CoS isn't what's killing them. Grow up.

EDIT: Also if that's true about your wife...why didn't you call the cops? That's something you can do easily, but your story probably isn't true anyways you're just engaging in the same nasty tactics as you accuse CoS of doing...just making shit up...to be right in an argument on the internet. That's just sad.

Your video, BBC Panorama - Secrets of Scientology, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

This achievement has earned you your "Pop Star" Level 6 Badge!

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

@<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/Yogi" title="member since May 15th, 2009" class="profilelink">Yogi
Scientology is no worse than the Catholic Church, eh?
You mean the same catholics church that RAPES PREPUBESCENT BOYS?! By the truck load.
" Scientology hasn't killed nearly as many people or extorted nearly as much money as the Catholic church. I mean, they haven't even committed mass conversion & genocide yet so why don't you just leave them be, huh? "
How thick is your skull that you can't comprehend how fucked a viewpoint that is?
You're irrational.


Is there any evidence they've killed anyone? Is there any evidence they're about to? No you're just crazy.

Look I get you want to be up in arms about this, it's something you've put a lot of stock into. It's pretty much like 9/11 conspiracy theories. You can talk and post and tell people they're full of shit when they question why this is such a big deal but you've missed the point. You've been completely neutralized, we don't have to worry about you actually bringing about any sort of change that's meaningful since you're going after this silly Religion.

You won't help anyone, you won't effect anything, you'll just stamp your feet and get all pissed off over the internet about things that simply aren't important. Now run along and keep doing that, I'm going over here to feed these homeless people some sammiches

>> ^Gallowflak:

>> ^Yogi:
Like I said in the preview of this Documentary, what has Scientology done that we should care about? I see here some people not seeing their relatives through...choices of their own. And a woman committing suicide...again a choice of her own. Really I can't find any proof that Scientology is responsible for any deaths whatsoever. So why should I care? Let them worship whatever they want with their stupid "All psychiatrists are evil" nonsense, it doesn't matter. Now back to my Sammich.

Right, it doesn't matter. Unless you happen to take issue with the overt corporatism and incredible wealth of the church, as gained through exploitation; leading people through a breadcrumb trail of supposed self-development, with soaring costs the further up you go. Unless you happen to take issue with their opposition to freedom of information and of media whererever such things allow for criticism of the church. Unless you happen to take issue with the fact that Scientologists are impregnating themselves into every area of bureaucracy and, in some cases, law enforcement, and will do whatever the CoS tells them to do. Unless you happen to take issue with the outright and blatant propagandism, lies, obfuscation, intimidation, shit-slinging tactics of the CoS. Unless you happen to take issue with the fact that the CoS is an exceptionally streamlined brainwashing engine - a cult in the most obvious sense - who will destroy lives relentlessly just to maintain the cohesion of the church.
They have unimaginable wealth. They can afford any lawyer and they can afford any lawsuit. They can buy their way into whichever parts of society and establishment that they want to. They employ extremely potent indoctrination techniques and they'll keep on growing and spreading, all under the cushy facade of being a "religion". I think that's a problem. You don't have to agree, but at least be honest; when you say "what has Scientology done that we should care about", you really mean I . Well, I can't speak for you and nor would I presume to, but this cult bothers the fuck out of me, and I'm not going to stop protesting the CoS any time soon.
Enjoy your sammich.


If you want to fight Corporatism that matters start with Monsanto. Start with Newscorp...start with something that has a very large and easily studied effect on every Americans lives. Not just the people who join the Church of Scientology or investigate the church of scientology. If this was such a big block of power in the United States you actually think this documentary would get made? This isn't something that should even concern us, compared to so many other things in our government and corporate entities right now...this is the least of our worries.

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

So an organization that brainwashes, enslaves, mentally verbally and physically abuses, blackmails and bankrupts innocent people seeking spiritual enrichment, its very own members nonetheless, isn't something humanity should care about?!?!
If you sincerely believe that then you're one sick fuck. Like, you're worst than the videogame cat murder.
Also, probably difficult to see things you aren't looking for.
Victims of Scientology
>> ^Yogi:
Like I said in the preview of this Documentary, what has Scientology done that we should care about? I see here some people not seeing their relatives through...choices of their own. And a woman committing suicide...again a choice of her own. Really I can't find any proof that Scientology is responsible for any deaths whatsoever. So why should I care? Let them worship whatever they want with their stupid "All psychiatrists are evil" nonsense, it doesn't matter. Now back to my Sammich.



Again there's no evidence that anything they're doing is worse than the catholic church. You should bust in on their mass and scream that they're brainwashing and enslaving people. They have choice here, they can join or they can not. I don't see enough evidence to point to that they're ruining anyones lives or snatching people off the street and doing terrible things to them. If you wanna get mad about this sort of thing fine, but it tells me that we have it really really good in America if an organization that is completely voluntary an mostly innocuous is getting this much static. I mean other countries have real shit to worry about, people in black vans pulling their loved ones from their homes and killing them in alleys...and we're concerned because these people follow us around with cameras?

>> ^Yogi:

Like I said in the preview of this Documentary, what has Scientology done that we should care about? I see here some people not seeing their relatives through...choices of their own. And a woman committing suicide...again a choice of her own. Really I can't find any proof that Scientology is responsible for any deaths whatsoever. So why should I care? Let them worship whatever they want with their stupid "All psychiatrists are evil" nonsense, it doesn't matter. Now back to my Sammich.


Right, it doesn't matter. Unless you happen to take issue with the overt corporatism and incredible wealth of the church, as gained through exploitation; leading people through a breadcrumb trail of supposed self-development, with soaring costs the further up you go. Unless you happen to take issue with their opposition to freedom of information and of media whererever such things allow for criticism of the church. Unless you happen to take issue with the fact that Scientologists are impregnating themselves into every area of bureaucracy and, in some cases, law enforcement, and will do whatever the CoS tells them to do. Unless you happen to take issue with the outright and blatant propagandism, lies, obfuscation, intimidation, shit-slinging tactics of the CoS. Unless you happen to take issue with the fact that the CoS is an exceptionally streamlined brainwashing engine - a cult in the most obvious sense - who will destroy lives relentlessly just to maintain the cohesion of the church.

They have unimaginable wealth. They can afford any lawyer and they can afford any lawsuit. They can buy their way into whichever parts of society and establishment that they want to. They employ extremely potent indoctrination techniques and they'll keep on growing and spreading, all under the cushy facade of being a "religion". I think that's a problem. You don't have to agree, but at least be honest; when you say "what has Scientology done that *we* should care about", you really mean *I*. Well, I can't speak for you and nor would I presume to, but this cult bothers the fuck out of me, and I'm not going to stop protesting the CoS any time soon.

Enjoy your sammich.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult

Any group whose main commonality is adherence to cultural laws based on superstitious/ supernatural/metaphysical beliefs is part of a cult.

Tho like Gwiz said, the level of sanity amongst and within groups varies.

In reply to this comment by bcglorf:
>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

wait. what religion isn't a cult?


Wait, are you really content to just say they are all 'equal'?

So, you don't see any utility in distinguishing between Koresh's Waco sect and Hindu's following in the approximate example of Ghandi?

I'm afraid you might find that such a ludicrously oversimplified world view is... inaccurate.

There are certainly levels of crazy, but they're all in the crazy 'region'.
>> ^bcglorf:

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:
wait. what religion isn't a cult?

Wait, are you really content to just say they are all 'equal'?
So, you don't see any utility in distinguishing between Koresh's Waco sect and Hindu's following in the approximate example of Ghandi?
I'm afraid you might find that such a ludicrously oversimplified world view is... inaccurate.

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

wait. what religion isn't a cult?


Wait, are you really content to just say they are all 'equal'?

So, you don't see any utility in distinguishing between Koresh's Waco sect and Hindu's following in the approximate example of Ghandi?

I'm afraid you might find that such a ludicrously oversimplified world view is... inaccurate.

>> ^NordlichReiter:

I've never understood the appeal of churches, not when there's so much other stuff to be doing.
Here's some; sex, music, art, adrenaline, kites, beaches, family, and a whole host of other things.



Most churches offer all of those things (except sex, maybe) as a ready-to-go package. Think about it. If you join a church, you'll automatically and immediately get a large family to support and help you. Most of the world's greatest art pieces were inspired by or specifically about religious concepts. Many of the great classical composers wrote music for churches, although modern christian music is simply atrocious. Many churches like spending days out as "youth groups" or whatever. they go to beaches, fly kites, go to roller coaster parks, and some even do skydiving, as well as a host of other things...

I'm an atheist but there IS a reason that churches have such powerful draw on people.