QM, I really respect your dedication to libertarianism and therefor your opposition to the policies that are likely to be enacted by President Obama. So go ahead and trash his plans and his record all you like, but please, please stop making jokes about Obama's connection to Kenya and his African family's religion.

I respect your respectful tone.

He's an American, and a Christian. Those two things don't really mean a lot to me, since I am not a nationalist and not religious, but your continued comments and jokes that seem to claim otherwise are clearly some sort of veiled racism.

Racism? Nothing could be further from the truth. I don't care about Obama's race, unfortunately others are obsessed with it. I'm happy for Blacks who take pride in Obama's election but as Rev. Lowery's little inauguration jab against Whites proves, the Racial Grievance Indu$try, though temporarily subdued, is alive and well. Like others, I'm waiting to see if those opposing Barry's socialist agenda will be branded racists by the mainstream media, which these days shamelessly shills for Democrats. We both know that answer.

The assumptions in your statements are that a person associated with Kenya has less value than a "pure" American, and that a person who has Muslim relatives has questionable loyalties.

Though it be humor in Barry's case, I question the loyalties of ANY American
politician who swears on a Quran. Islam demands a loyalty that transcends national boundaries, but in the name of conquest, not respect (Christianity went through and grew out of such a mindset centuries ago). Islam is largely incompatible with Western values, so it remains to be seen what happens next as their numbers grow in the States.

Jokes aside, I'm not saying Barry is a Muslim, however I don't rule out the possibility. Though he is a self-professed Christian, the truth of whatever that means to Barack is between him and his God. If his Christianity is the bitter Black marxism of Reverend Wright, I have no more use for it than if BHO was a professed Muslim.

I'll say this anyway: your rights as a non-believer are not secure with Muslims.

Perhaps other people aren't bothered by your little jabs, but it's really starting to get on my nerves. I have high hopes that Obama will be good for this country. But even if I am wrong and Obama turns this country into a socialist toilet like Denmark, France, or Vermont, that has absolutely nothing to do with a dual citizenship he never wanted, or the beliefs of relatives he barely knows.

The dual citizenship ended with BHO turning 21 and at no time did he claim loyalty to Kenya. However there remain serious questions about the legitimacy of what has been presented as Obama's birth certificate (a digital image, easily forged). The real birth certificate has never been made available and Obama won't release it. After 4 years (or, God Forbid, I suspect he'll reveal he was born in Kenya, and was therefore unqualified, by law, to be President.

If Bush can be accused of deliberately letting Blacks drown (due to a hurricane + the Democrats who ran New Orleans for decades, doing nothing to upkeep the levees) by not getting the federal leviathan to act "fast enough", then Barry can take a little ribbing. I'm sorry you were offended personally, but I'm one of 3 or so outspoken non-liberals here at VS and my comments are usually sandwiched by Bush/Israel/conservative/capitalism-hating jibes and rants.

I'm a conservative kidney stone here at liberalsift but that's the way it goes, I choose to visit and most sifters allow me to stay (an occasional gift can of WD-40 for Siftbot helps).

Hopefully there are more laughs than rage, and believe me, a few times I've walked away from this computer ready to kill over mere words. It comes with the territory, Kent.

In reply to this comment by UsesProzac:
The second "m" in "mormon" is silent.

In reply to this comment by thepinky:
>> ^harlequinn:
>> ^shuac:
When's the last time you saw a Christian video parody of an atheist? As in totally turning the tables? Never, right? It's always a parody of a Christian made by secularists/atheists. Christians never seem to get around to making a cleverly-disguised video (as this one was) that gets people talking.
Why do you think that is?

Because most Christians don't care to try and mock other peoples beliefs.
Christians are generally very tolerant. Atheists seem not to be (as evidenced by the large amount of atheist videos trying to debunk Christianity and sometimes other religions).

I wouldn't go so far as to say that most Christians are tolerant. In fact, the largest church in my area has a sunday-school class dedicated to telling people that my religion is false and that members of it should be avoided. LAME!

But you have a point. This website is giving me an very unflattering picture of Atheists based on which videos get sifted and the comments made about them. There seems to be a general lack of humility among Atheist sifters, at least the outspoken ones.

>> ^harlequinn:
>> ^shuac:
When's the last time you saw a Christian video parody of an atheist? As in totally turning the tables? Never, right? It's always a parody of a Christian made by secularists/atheists. Christians never seem to get around to making a cleverly-disguised video (as this one was) that gets people talking.
Why do you think that is?

Because most Christians don't care to try and mock other peoples beliefs.
Christians are generally very tolerant. Atheists seem not to be (as evidenced by the large amount of atheist videos trying to debunk Christianity and sometimes other religions).

I wouldn't go so far as to say that most Christians are tolerant. In fact, the largest church in my area has a sunday-school class dedicated to telling people that my religion is false and that members of it should be avoided. LAME!

But you have a point. This website is giving me an very unflattering picture of Atheists based on which videos get sifted and the comments made about them. There seems to be a general lack of humility among Atheist sifters, at least the outspoken ones.

There is to much bullshit in here, to much arguing and tribalism.

This thread went from being about siftquisitions to being about this unspoken... or outspoken disgust with imstellar.

Well if we are going to screw this whole thread up, i suppose ill Godwin it! Siftquisitions are just like Nazi Tribunals.

What we do need to worry about is the Rule By Rabble majority, and the deft but introverted backroom tribalism.

For Example: If I had done something, in violation of the rules, or used one to many fuck words in the Kennedy Center. The majority would rule, that I had violated the one to many fuck rule. In this case the majority would be correct, however had I been a minority like imstellar, and or the originial poster (which minority I do belong to at the moment) the majority may be out to get them Hypothetically.

What I mean is both back room, under the table banishment and public get a rope siftquisitions are in need of re tooling.

While most people are in effect attempting to be banned, there will come a case where some one is innocently hanged by the Colosseum audience.

I'm looking forward to that case, I think it would be intrepid.

At this rate we should start a b& pool, wagering promotes. (Like an office dead pool.)

I am now returning to my indifference.

I guess that depends upon your perspective, and your definition of a troll.

I define a troll as an attention-seeker who adds nothing to any point of view (including his/er own) but annoyance to all. I don't think I've ever met one on the sift; just people with opposing points of view.

I've claimed the moniker of many philosophies and religions in my past, atheism merely being my current guise. So far it fits better than others, despite my penchant for fate and karma, as well as a love for world myth. I think, however, there is a difference between what we'd like to believe and what is true. (Though I admit truth is difficult to grasp, reality itself being subject to skepticism.)

Yes, reality is subjective, and quite possibly an illusion. While no religion or philosophy contains the Entire Truth, expressions of truth can be found in all. I don't have an issue with atheism itself or atheists as individuals, but I don't like this modern thread of atheism that is openly antagonistic towards religion to the point of giving it no credit...to me this is "throwing the baby out with the bathwater".

I get your criticism of Dawkins, your comments have been quite accurate.

I appreciate the compliment. To a degree I admire Dr. Dawkins and his ideas. His idea of "the selfish gene" is brilliant, and he and other outspoken atheists are vital to keeping the religious "honest" and questioning their own faith....where the "new" atheism and the old differ is the new atheism demands that its conclusions don't allow for people to grow in their faith.

This is simply my way of attempting two things: To make a new friend, and glean some knowledge.

Sho nuff! Stop by anytime and see ya round the sift.

eachother

don't you just love when women "embrace" their full-body and become outspoken about it, then they immediately go through the effort of getting rid of fat...ie: kristie alley

yeah yeah yeah, heard that horseshit before.... a goddamn broken record, delivered in the tired and over-worked style, of sarcasm, and smug abandon....the new form of what makes most people today, laugh self-satisfactorily-
we all are given in to our lusts as humans, some simply roll in them like dogs-ask those who know me, just how fucking gay i can be-how about a tongue-kiss?? MMMMMWWWANH!

What exactly is the failure rate of couples unprepared for life alone, much less, with someone else today, and who gives a fuck??
How about that same rate of couples married prior to the meltdown of societal mores in the sixties?
The damage has been done to marriage, not by it. And again, as I have stated before, MOST homosexuals do not approve of the actions of the more outspoken and political of the others-do some research-

and it is no small bit of synchronicity, that Degeneres, one of the most prominent spokes-bitches for the most radical gays, has had to hear "degenerate" most of her life-quite fitting, and prophetic, wouldn't ya say???

Obammy does not deserve the vote of anyone, for soooo may reasons. Rev wright's is simplistic, afro-centric rhetoric....every city has one, outspoken shouting and reactionary champion of the black man....it's the same disease that Jesse Jackson, Sharpton, Farrakhan and others of this ilk have. And just like most putties who want history re-written, they decry symptoms instead of action all the while being played by the hand that holds the cards....Obama is not about change, that should be pretty fucking obvious at this stage in the circus.....He's about being used like they all are.

Rottenseed is right. Judaism is the only religion in the world that created this arbitrary rule that if your mother is Jewish, then so are you. Believing in God or not, if your mother is Jewish, then you're stuck that way forever.

David Cross does a really funny bit on his standup cd "Shut Up You Fucking Baby" about this very thing. Even if you're an outspoken Atheist, you're still a Jew. Weird, huh?

>> ^gwiz665:
The morals of the bible are horrendus and if electees actually follow those morals they should not be in any position of power.

>> ^tmcdermid:
73-80% of Americans believe in god? wtf?


Why are you so surprised? I thought it was actually more.

>> ^arsenault185:
I almost have to take offense to that one spoco. Your entitled to your opinion though, so I wont.
(playing devils advocate)
So I'm narrow minded for having faith in a higher power am I? I believe perfectly well that humans are capable of "functioning really well" without dropping everything off on a "phantom dude." For you to say this makes you just as narrow minded as what your trying to claim I am.


My issue was that he was saying that he couldn't fathom how anyone can function WITHOUT said mythical dude... not that people chose to, but rather that he almost took offense in the fact that people could dare to get by without him.


Of course I can handle my issues on my own. of course you could. So what if life is better for me because I believe in God and Jesus? Why does it bother you?


Ahh, because you have the arrogance to assume that your life is better than mine thanks to your belief. If it makes you happy, so be it, but to do a snide 'my life is better than yours because I believe in them'... that's condescending.



And how was that mainstream? It was a local station. And on top of that, how could that EVER be conceived as condescending? If anything, they were trying to show people that atheists are normal people and are capable for normal lives, and that you AREN'T heathens of some kind.

It's still a tv station, and it demonstrates the media attitude in general in the US... and not condescending? On second watching I think, perhaps they were trying to not be condescending... but it comes across that way in spades. All this incredulity that Atheists can amazingly be good people and lead moral lives, and that... oh my goodness, there's quite a lot of us. Then:

Firstly the Bishop is a major condescending dick suggesting that it's a better culture for people who are 'having struggles with faith', and those that ... pause, stammer 'don't believe in god' can be more 'forthright and honest' about the fact. He's trying to suggest that there are not more athiests, just that all them good christian types allow them to speak up. What crud, it's an even more religiously zealot filled media and parliament than ever. The second speaker on that point nails it.

The "the children have had no problem making friends at school". As if they're some sorts of freaks who should be finding it difficult.

Then 'yeah, good points from both sides'... um... what points exactly did the pro religious have in this piece? Um... none... that's right, just the bishop with the insanely ludicrous 'who do you put your faith in' comment. Just Argh... Argh...

Just the term 'Believers vs non Believers'... it is putting a positive spin on those that believe. Rationalists vs Religious is less divisive.

And 'It's mainstream now' as it fades out... as if it's some closet thing.



Chill out. Let people believe what they want to believe, and you believe what you want to believe.
(I am a Christian, though and extremely right wing conservative, but not in the fact that you should eat Christ Chex for breakfast)

I am more than happy for people to believe in whatever they wish EXCEPT when it causes detriment to the world at large:
* When lack of belief in scientific facts is harming education
* When people's narrow minded interpretation of their bible is trying to be forced into country's laws
* When people are being discriminated against because of who they want to share a bed with
* When those that believe in god are of the opinion that EVERYONE should believe in their god.

That's what has all us atheists all riled up, the people you have running for office in the states all proudly proclaim their faith, and it would seem would have NO ability to ever stand for office if they did not.

It's a horrendous state of affairs where the religion of the running member has any baring on their election chances.

>> ^quantumushroom:
Those thinkers who cannot believe in any gods often assert that the love of humanity would be in itself sufficient for them; and so, perhaps, it would, if they had it.
--Gilbert K. Chesterton


I don't know if that was provocative 100 years ago, but it's irrelevant today. I've never heard anyone make such an assertion.

nicely said.

In reply to this comment by spoco2:
Argh! That darn bishop... Why do we need to have some mythical figure to 'turn to' in times of need? That's just a coping mechanism and an easy way out. The BETTER way to cope in such times is to find constructive outlets for whatever anger, hatred etc. there might be, or find solace and comfort in family and friends in times of need.

Just incredibly narrow minded to not believe that humans are capable of functioning REALLY WELL without having to pile any issues they have on a phantom dude with beard in the sky.

And the horrible tone of this piece such that athiests are some weird, out there group, and wow, isn't is amazing they can make friends.

Fuck you mainstream US tv... fuck you big time. This is the sort of condescending bullshit that makes Atheists seethe. We're not as abnormal as you may think you know.