Try coming to Palestine and honestly telling me that Hamas is a terrorist organization and not simply a response to outright hostile actions purported by the State of Israel.
Israel reaps the seeds that it has sowed itself.


Your world view must like perpetual war and violence. Do you really wish to defend a group that sends it's own children as suicide bombers against it's enemies, because the enemies sowed the seeds?

Would you honestly accept that Zionism is simply a response to outright hostile actions purported by Europeans? I reject that notion as soundly as your own allegations towards Hamas.

Is Israel not simply a response to outright hostile actions purported by the States of Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Iran and Lebanon? Do you accept defending Israel's actions as Arabs reaping the seeds they sowed?

Should we go back further, and declare the Arab attacks on Israel simply a response to outright hostile actions purported by Britain. Do we defend the Arab attacks on the basis of Britain and her allies reaping what was sown?

Do you realize that rationalization is the whole reason the hatred and warfare in the region seems to be a never ending circle?

Here's where I stand, and have stated numerous times before. I condemn war crimes committed by any nation or group, Israel included. There's a lot of undeniable evidence the IDF need to be prosecuted for crimes committed in the recent offensive. Hamas kills more Arabs than Israelis and that is their greatest crime. Yes I condemn them for deliberately targeting Israeli civilians, I condemn them for stating in their charter the elimination of the Israeli state as one of their goals. Their worst crimes though are using Palestinian civilians as human shields to launch their attacks, using child soldiers and suicide bombers and generally using the bodies of their own people as their primary weapon. I refuse to accept the defense of 'Israel deserves it', or 'the Arabs deserve it' when defending war crimes and atrocities.

Dannym, you are wrong. It is relevant that an American citizen protesting or even walking down the street or whatever... in the West Bank was shot in the head by IDF troops.

So ask yourself, was this some militant, combatant or terrorist? Was he working with terrorists? Did he put himself in some dangerous conflict spot?

The point I guess is that IDF suppresses anyone protesting the occupation walls. The sad part is that if it was just another Palestinian being shot and killed by IDF it isn't news at all.

We should demand accountability from IDF especially after their butchering of Gazans.

>> ^Fade:
Seriously, if I ever meet a jew who gets emotional about the Holocaust I will freaking rip their fuckin head right off.
There, I said it. The holocaust is officially no longer off limits.


The fuck are you talking about? Israel performing atrocious acts = all jews are culpable?

Anyway, I really don't like the use of "american citizen" in this topic title.. i'm sorry to go there, but like stewie i feel i must. It feels like war mongering. This isn't toward you joedirt, you just used the terms from the youtube video.

Propagandistic titles like this drum up "we demand revenge!" cries from the masses and before you know it you're in another war where you're losing loved ones from the armed forces and you're asking the question "What? You mean people die in a war? That's unacceptable, pull out!"

>> ^dag:
Hmmm, well an arial shot of buildings from 5,000 feet doesn't qualify as "explicit" for me. We should also consider the broader context - are these really being displayed for entertainment or to bring war atrocities to light? For me it would be the latter.


Ah we are getting somewhere... 5000 feet death from above is OK.
500 feet of a freeway accident is NO NO.

Clearly the UAV war porn is NOT WAR CRIME footage as it is release by the US military or IDF and fills a certain niche in war porn circles. It is a kill all them muslim type entertainment and you are completely daft if you don't realize that is what it is.

What about Blackwater soldiers driving down the street shooting people? Maybe we only see cars swerve of the road and do not see pederstrians biting it, but hey, they deserved it right, they were probably setting up IADs. (did this video stick??)

So the limit is...
BUILDINGS DAMAGED -- YES
CARS DAMAGED -- NO

Please update the FAQ

UAV laser guided bomb videos are only on this site as "explicit depiction of loss of human life displayed for entertainment"

At the very least they are military propaganda. Much is true of IDF footage bombing schools and UN bldgs.

Is there an exception for war footage?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_In_Gaza
... the info was in your description,

In reply to this comment by Farhad2000:
What was the name of the Doc?

In reply to this comment by bamdrew:
I watched this documentary a few years back.

Intense to say the least.

I'm upvoting, but I'm not watching this part again.

What was the name of the Doc?

In reply to this comment by bamdrew:
I watched this documentary a few years back.

Intense to say the least.

I'm upvoting, but I'm not watching this part again.

This works way better then i thought it would, great job lucky.

One recommendation, is it possible to widen out the video summary? e.g. http://www.videosift.com/video/The-James-Miller-Shooting-in-Rafah-by-IDF

The international Red Cross said Tuesday that Israel has fired white phosphorus shells in its offensive in the Gaza Strip, but has no evidence to suggest it is being used improperly or illegally.

The comments came after a human rights organization accused the Jewish state of using the incendiary agent, which ignites when it strikes the skin and burns straight through or until it is cut off from oxygen. It can cause horrific injuries.


White phosphorus is not considered a chemical weapon.

"In some of the strikes in Gaza it's pretty clear that phosphorus was used," Herby told The Associated Press. "But it's not very unusual to use phosphorus to create smoke or illuminate a target. We have no evidence to suggest it's being used in any other way."

In response, the IDF said Tuesday that it "wishes to reiterate that it uses weapons in compliance with international law, while strictly observing that they be used in accordance with the type of combat and its characteristics."

Herby said that using phosphorus to illuminate a target or create smoke is legitimate under international law, and that there was no evidence the Jewish state was intentionally using phosphorus in a questionable way, such as burning down buildings or consciously putting civilians at risk.
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/red-cross-israels-use-white-phosphorus-not-illegal

Upvote for the amazing tenacity of Israli apologists.

More IDF propaganda faithfully distributed and defended.

^Hibernian


You're very correct Hibernian, thanks for pointing it out. I've modified the video title accordingly. She didn't say her son was killed, only that he was in the Army.

Just to clarify, this is a Palestinian Doctor who is very reasonable in regards to a peaceful coexistence between Palestinians and Israelis. He has been living in Israel for some time.

Last week, his family home in Gaza was struck by Israeli shell. The casualties were promptly transported to an Israeli hospital, but he lost 4 family members in the hit (see here for a report). The second part of this video is an Israeli citizen accusing his family of harbouring weaponry or participating in attacks against the IDF.

The man in this clip is Doctor Ezeldeen Abu Al-aish who trained in an Israeli hospital and believes in Arab-Israeli co-existence. He is actually an outspoken critic of Hamas.

He was calling into News Channel 10 and reporting on daily events on the ground live on the air.

He was a Palestinian who chose to work for Israel, and the IDF killed his daughters. The IDF claimed there was sniper fire coming from his house, later they claimed it was coming "from the area", later again they said the matter was "under investigation".

>> ^Farhad2000:
Pat Condell doesn't even know who the fuck Geert Wilders is or what he stands for.
http://www.videosift.com/video/Fascist-Exposed-Geert-Wilders-on-R
adical-Islam
Watch Wilders squirm under questioning when interviewed by BBCs Hard Talk and expose himself as a fascist who just doesn't like immigrants.


The thing is : In this case it doesnt matter if Geert Wilders eats babies for breakfast, he is being charged for making a movie that is strictly critical towards ISLAM. Period. It doesnt matter if you, me or Condell agrees or sympathizes with whatever Geert Wilders say, In this matter, he is being charged for essentially blasphemy, if anything..

I know very little about Mr. Wilders, and he might be the biggest asshole on the planet, Judging from the HardTalk interview, I certainly disagree with him on many points, For instance, he wants To use "administrative detention" to round up people who are hostile to his "Values", which essentially means that he is hostile to his own values and should be in detention himself..

The point is that in any case, its all OPINIONS, just like "Allah Ackbar, All infidels are dirt" is an opinion. Both may be good or bad or disgusting, depending on who hears them, but they shouldnt be illegal.

If a Muslim makes a movie with quotes from the Torah, and images of children being slaughtered by IDF's bombs, Many will probably find it offensive, perhaps inaccurate, but unless it ends with "Kill all the Jews", it is still entirely within our Free Speech rights. In America, it would be free speech no matter what, but most of Europe has "Hate Speech" laws, under which threats of violence or death against groups or individuals is illegal, and that brings us to the heart of the issue:

Has Geert Wilders threatened with, or encouraged violence or murder of groups or individuals?

No. (Well, not to my knowledge, and not in "Fitna", which is what he is charged for)

Case closed

The Palestinians would not accept living in Israel now, because this has gone for too and too much blood has been spilled. The only solution is a two state solution, but the momentum towards that is never there because many factions in Israel's government believe that all of Israel is theirs and thus have used policies designed to keep the peace process in formaldehyde.

The Muslims and Jews have occupied the lands in peace for ages, it is only when we factor in political interests that declare the land for one or the other religious denomination do the problems arise.

I fervently believe that civilians in both Palestine and Israel wish for nothing more but peace, and could live with each other in peace. Economic interdependence has seen Israel rely on Palestinian labour countless times and conflict between both as only seen both lose out on economic progress, Israel doing far better because of the massive injects of funds it receives mainly from the US.

However we have political movements like Likud and Zionism and extremist thought in Hamas and other entities that make this a virtual impossibility. The reason for the existence of both is varied, in Israel there is the Manifest Destiny belief, in Palestine there is the oppression and deaths of family members that fermented armed struggle that can only end in the destruction of Israel.

Obama came into the Presidency saying that one of the key factors is that Arab states must recognize Israel, how do you force other nations to suddenly normalized relations with a hostile nation? Its like the UK telling the US to normalize relations with Cuba.

I believe everyone is complicit in the events that we see played out, neither Hamas nor the Israeli leadership will suffer from the deaths in Gaza. But the Palestinians see Hamas as the only entity that is actively fighting IDFs aggression, the whole world condemned the attacks, did anyone do anything other then declarations and condemnations? No. Alot of Palestinian civilians got killed.

And no Israel is not a perfect state as you claim, read on HRW and its own news organizations, Israel's Knesset parties nearly threw out an Arab Israeli calling him a representative of terrorists and a immigrant.

Like all Arab democratic states (of which there are few but they claim to be democratic in spirit! LOLZ) it also abuses the democracy it declares to possess, the IDF and the government as a whole have always the security issue to clamp down on progressive movements and protests. Just like every other corrupt Arab state out there who declare the Israeli actions as horrible but beat the shit out of its own citizens for protesting the same.
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/01/21/gaza-crisis-regimes-react-routine-repression

Arabs in my region suspect Obama will change things but he won't, he is a Zionist representative as much as Bush. Bush left office by calling Israel. Obama entered office by calling Israel. The US is the key factor in changing all this however the entire nation in the US is under heavy influence via AIPAC, WINEP, MEMRI and numerous other organizations that paint a very one sided picture of the conflict.

The resolution of this conflict is a corner stone of ending terrorism and extremist action against the US from the Arab world.

I assure you I understand the point of view that the Muslim Palestinians are the underdogs and that they supposedly are a modern "ressistance" movement.

But I think the crux of the question is whether Muslim (or Christian) Arabs can live peacefully among Jewish people or if Jewish people can live peacefully among Muslims. I use religious terms here because, unfortunately, some people are still convinced that "prophecy" is relevant when in fact we've got people working with chromosomes and gene sequencing as we speak.

My opinion, looking at the current state of affairs, is that Palestinians would be far better of living in Israel than Israelis living in Palestine. Unfortunately the likelihood of this happening is beyond probability.

>> ^Farhad2000:
Look the onus is on you to justify the numerous deaths and destruction the IDF has unilaterally applied to all Palestinians.


My argument, to answer your question, is that Israel is a very responsible state in that it adheres to what is generally acknowledged as the peak of "civilization" in the form of political, economic, personal, social, educational and spiritual liberty. Did you know that there are even "anti-discrimination" laws in the Israeli penal code?

As for armed combat... war is horrible, but the soldier who has the courage to wear a uniform has more honour than the man hiding behind women and children. There's no argument against that.