I don't normally profile reply folks (because I generally don't like it) so forgive me this intrusion.

I posted this last December/January when the IDF was bombing the hell out of Gaza, dropping as much tonnage as they could before Obama took office.

I'm not anti-Israel, but I do take issue with its government's policies regarding the Palestinians.

Adios. (hope you liked the song)

In reply to this comment by joe2:
from the "God help Palestine." comment i expected this to be a political film about israel

meh, this wasn't as good as I hoped, *kill

Wait for the whole IDF video of it and I will make a playlist

>> ^demon_ix:
Always makes me sad to watch Israelis get interviewed on American media. Our accent doesn't exactly help you guys take us seriously. I might disagree with him a bit on the actual quality of our healthcare system, but it's certainly better than the American one, no offense.
As for the woman, her name is Pamela Pilger, and amusingly enough, she's actually wearing a IDF (Israeli Defense Force) t-shirt. Talk about an oxymoron.
Her contact details are evidently circulating the web already, and I fully expect her to get interviewed in Fox News, Joe the plumber style.
http://gawker.co
m/5340436/meet-pamela-pilger-the-crazy-lady-who-yelled-heil-hitler-at-a-jewish-supporter-of-health-care-reform


Thanks, I sent her a message on facebook to let her know how I feel

"As for the woman, her name is Pamela Pilger, and amusingly enough, she's actually wearing a IDF (Israeli Defense Force) t-shirt. Talk about an oxymoron."

There happens to be a lot of Anti-semites that support the state of Israel, seems crazy but a lot of Christian right wingers that hate the Jews support their state because of some Bible story or something.

Always makes me sad to watch Israelis get interviewed on American media. Our accent doesn't exactly help you guys take us seriously. I might disagree with him a bit on the actual quality of our healthcare system, but it's certainly better than the American one, no offense.

As for the woman, her name is Pamela Pilger, and amusingly enough, she's actually wearing a IDF (Israeli Defense Force) t-shirt. Talk about an oxymoron.

Her contact details are evidently circulating the web already, and I fully expect her to get interviewed in Fox News, Joe the plumber style.

http://gawker.com/5340436/meet-pamela-pilger-the-crazy-lady-who-yelled-heil-hitler-at-a-jewish-supporter-of-health-care-reform

"Her love of cleanliness, altogether feminine, is so great that a single grain of dust on the barrel of a gun could ruin her day". Funny how my male commanders expressed the exact same trait. It might have something to do with clean guns jamming less, but nah. That's not it. They're women, so it has to be that...

Ah, the good old '60s. That clip is probably from a "Hen" corps basic training, which was the old women's unit in the IDF. It has since been dissolved, and female soldiers serve alongside men in most combat roles.

Here is something a bit more up to date:

Am sorry but the IDF deals with people it has shared borders with for the last couple of millennial. Administrating the running of an open air prison and the numerous road blocks that they have created doesn't have a parallel to the operations in Iraq.

I really like how you can see the similarities between our soldiers and the IDF, when dealing with people from a different culture/race... Kids doing a job that no one knows how to do... and getting frustrated.

The expectations they try to live up to...

We may have problems, but in America... You'll at least see people from Latin American countries working as Border Police denying entry to people from the same countries... you don't see Palestinian IDF members, I don't believe. We're equal opportunity haters.


Life goes on.

>> ^rougy:
So...what I'm hearing is...some people think that treating Palistinians more harshly will make them stop strapping bombs to themselves? You know, show them who's boss?
I wonder how many Palestinians were killed by the IDF this month?
Wonder how many Israeli's were killed by Palestinians?
Is it a one-to-one ratio? Probably not.
And the settlers? That really is an issue that has to be addressed. To all the world, it just looks like a racist land grab. I'm sorry to say that, but it's hard to describe it any other way.
Shalom.


My point was, that the treatment was not harsh for harshness' sake. The point is to make it impossible for a suicide bomber to be able to strap on a bomb and get inside an Israeli city. If there were no suicide bombers, there would be no wall...

I happen to be one of the vast majority of Israelis who had a friend die to a suicide attack. This isn't a far-away news story to me. This is real life.

I don't have any numbers for you on the Israeli vs Palestinian deaths this month, but what if I did? Do you really think anyone would be content at a one-to-one ratio? Yes, they only have under-equipped, under-manned squads of guerrilla fighters. Is it conceivable to you that any nation with an army wouldn't use it to defend it's own citizens?
Tell me you honestly believe that if a Mexican drug cartel started suicide-bombing San Diego, the US army would stand by and do nothing...

I'm against the settlers and their entire agenda. To me they're a bunch of religious fanatics that only want to do what they think God told them, and that happens to be "Take back all the parts of Israel that aren't part of Israel any more" at the moment.

We evacuated Gush-Katif once (The settlements in Gaza, some of which were whole towns, with shopping centers and all) and we can evacuate the current ones. Not with this government however, since half of the ministers are settlers themselves...

I sincerely hope Netanyahu keeps going with Obama in this direction, but I can't see it happening with the current government. Ah well. Governments last 2-3 years here, so let's hope Livni gets more votes next time...

>> ^demon_ix:
The obvious response to that is "The Palestinians can't keep strapping bombs to young men and women, and expect to get through the border checkpoint".

So...what I'm hearing is...some people think that treating Palistinians more harshly will make them stop strapping bombs to themselves? You know, show them who's boss?

I wonder how many Palestinians were killed by the IDF this month?

Wonder how many Israeli's were killed by Palestinians?

Is it a one-to-one ratio? Probably not.

And the settlers? That really is an issue that has to be addressed. To all the world, it just looks like a racist land grab. I'm sorry to say that, but it's hard to describe it any other way.

Shalom.

In the words of the IDF border police... "Am I your problem solver?"

ill change it later maybe.

Imagine if these were Palestinians in their homes their families have lived in for a hundred years... The police (well IDF) would have been much more brutal.

They didn't even use CN gas to clear the area.. Or other munitions the US has sold them like concussion grenades and other weapons. It's funny the different treatment they give to actual criminals instead of Palestinians who are just treated much worse than this.

bcglorf: "Let's not pretend that for all the atrocities committed by the Jews and Zionists in 1940's Palestine there weren't just as many atrocities perpetrated against them by Arab Palestinians. It was a mess both then and now."

Qualm:Even hard-core Israeli apologists like Benny Morris don't believe that. It is no mild understatement to say this is not historically accurate.
...
bcglorf: "Your insistence that it was just a series of murderous rampages initiated by Zionists against friendly Arab Palestinians is what's been exposed here."

Qualm:I never make that claim.


Okay, I don't see a whole lot of room in between the above statements for ambiguity. I've openly stated, more than once, that Zionists and Israelis have committed numerous atrocities, through the 1940's(and before and since for that matter). Yet when I point out that similarly atrocities where committed against them by Arab Palestinians, you suddenly balk at the notion. Do you or do you not recognize that the violence and atrocities committed in Palestine from 1900-1948(and again onwards for that matter), included a very large proportion of tit for tat and revenge/self defense motivations from BOTH sides.

That's my reading of history, and it seems pretty consistent(and unbiased) with all of human history. The Jews and Zionists were more aggressive/violent/defensive given their treatment in Europe and status as a minority in Palestine. Similarly the Arab Palestinians had been under the yoke of either the Ottomans or the British and were also more aggressive/violent/defensive as a result. Neither of those are any excuse for the atrocities committed, it's just a much stronger motivation for their societies than a simple Zionist campaign to expunge the Arabs and Arabs defending themselves. It's much simpler than the Zionist position of Arabs bent on annihilating all Jews. The truth is in the middle of those, do you reject the whole of this?


Rougy:Your obdurate unwillingness to admit that Israel is at fault for anything is what is really being exposed here.


Really? I repeatedly condemn the atrocities they've committed. Up thread I've repeatedly referenced atrocities committed by them from before 1948 through to the present day as a given. I referenced the most recent invasion up thread saying There's a lot of undeniable evidence the IDF need to be prosecuted for crimes committed in the recent offensive.


You are pro Israel, right or wrong, and that is clear as day.


No, I'm anti-Hamas, there's a very big difference. If you'd like me to condemn all of Israel just out of 'fairness' I won't. That'd be the equivalent of condemning all Palestinians, which is the workings of a racist. I condemn Hamas specifically as a horrific organization that manages to kill more of it's own people than anyone else. An equivalent condemnation would be of Avigdor Lieberman and his Yisrael Beiteinu party as racists and a horrific evil, I'll happily condemn them as strongly as Hamas as they chant 'Death to Arabs' with as much vigor as Hamas chants 'Death to Israel'.

Your "historical" blurb barely warrants a reply- especially in light of the fact that you reject Gabriel Ash, and Benny Morris, as having diminished value, ie. "cliff notes."


That's a trite way of dodging the matter. I hardly see how an intelligent person can see an account of the years between 45 to 50 is diminished by stating a need to look at a larger time frame and context. Care to actually speak to the historical context? Do you prefer to just state that Israel need be condemned for war crimes, and at the same time Hamas crimes be ignored since they are just a result of Israel's crimes?


Please continue with your rationalization and support for genocide

That's just pathetic. Here for yet another time on the sift, and copied from further up the thread is where I stand:

Here's where I stand, and have stated numerous times before. I condemn war crimes committed by any nation or group, Israel included. There's a lot of undeniable evidence the IDF need to be prosecuted for crimes committed in the recent offensive. Hamas kills more Arabs than Israelis and that is their greatest crime. Yes I condemn them for deliberately targeting Israeli civilians, I condemn them for stating in their charter the elimination of the Israeli state as one of their goals. Their worst crimes though are using Palestinian civilians as human shields to launch their attacks, using child soldiers and suicide bombers and generally using the bodies of their own people as their primary weapon. I refuse to accept the defense of 'Israel deserves it', or 'the Arabs deserve it' when defending war crimes and atrocities.


If you interpret that as supporting genocide me thinks you are perhaps the one who's biased.